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Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Endurance Bike

Old 08-16-19, 08:38 AM
  #26  
noodle soup
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
I've tried to look around for used (don't think I'd want to buy used, mainly due to lack of support/fitting), and finding a bike for 6'3 (oh, and most of my height is in my legs) is damn near impossible. .
I would look for a 60cm Trek Domane. I'm 6'2" with a 37" inseam, and a Domane is a perfect fit. It has the same dimensions as a frameset I had custom built, and the ride far better than the custom.
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Old 08-16-19, 09:48 AM
  #27  
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I was in your shoes 20+ years ago, started riding with a hybrid 10-40 miles on weekends . I started riding for health reasons, now I just love riding.

Now I own just 4 bikes(had more before) including an endurance bike that is set up for "long" rides(my "long" rides are usually 300-1200 km).

I LOVE riding race geometry aggressive very light bikes, does not matter what material they are made off. They just feel fast (what you describe as handling). My endurance bike is set up very aggressively, mimicking my "race" bikes, but still does not feel as "fast" . I also have a cyclocross bike to get off road on trials(what I used the hybrid bike many years ago)

I suggest getting a race geometry road bike, as light as you can afford. You will have lots of fun riding it and will feel very fast.

You already have a endurance( hybrid) bike that you can use on trials and shorter rides. When you start riding both bikes you will see the difference in handling. You will love riding a race geometry bike with quick handling. It may not be as comfortable for you as a beginner to sit low after riding an upright hybrid, but "comfort" will come with experience.

After a while you will know what you like about cycling and what you prefer. You may like to ride with a friend "slow" sightseeing or "fast" and be all about numbers.

Another option is renting for a few days different geometry bikes and riding them to see how they feel.

Comfort on a bicycle is very relative. To me on one day rides the faster I ride or feel the more "comfort" I have. Although on two or more days of riding the meaning of "comfort" changes .

Last edited by Andrey; 08-16-19 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 08-16-19, 10:31 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
This confuses me. So I get that the endurance geometry doesn't handle as well, but does it handle better than a hybrid? What is considered a tight turn (90į at some speed?)? I'd imagine at this point in time that my comfort on the bike would be a greater limitation to my turning/handling than the bike (I'm fairly sure my Hybrid can turn better than I do, but it's me that isn't comfortable leaning that much and so I slow down into turns more than I probably need to).
It's not really right to say that endurance bikes don't handle "as well" as racing road bikes. They handle slightly differently, because they're (intended to be) put to different use. The way they handle is more appropriate for most people for the type of riding they're designed for.

But yes, any endurance road bike will handle better than almost any hybrid bike at speed. When you want to make tight turns, put your hands in the drops, weighting your front wheel.
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Old 08-16-19, 10:45 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
It's not really right to say that endurance bikes don't handle "as well" as racing road bikes. They handle slightly differently, because they're (intended to be) put to different use. The way they handle is more appropriate for most people for the type of riding they're designed for.
+1

Endurance bikes don't handle like a true road race bike, but for most people that's a positive trait.

I totally disagree with @Andrey because he's not taking into consideration your long legs/short torso. I would try both endurance and road race style bikes, and get what fits you best.
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Old 08-16-19, 11:19 AM
  #30  
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Thanks. I looked at the geometry of the Domane vs. Emonda vs. Sirrus. Can anyone point out the big dimensions that really stand out that make the Sirrus turn worse than the Domane or Emonda? I notice Trail, but the Sirrus is only like 1 mm worse than the Domane. I realize that is probably more going into the weeds than I need to, but I like numbers (damn Engineers), so I am curious.

I think from reading here my main takeaway is to try out a few bikes, lightweight and endurance, and see which one fits me the best. It sounds like while a lightweight is theoretically faster, that's only the case if it is fitted well so I can deliver power optimally, so if I fit into an endurance geometry better, it's likely to be a better overall choice for me. Similarly, my planned rides aren't particularly long, so if a lightweight fits me well, the duration of my ride is unlikely to warrant the need for the added comfort of an endurance bike (just maybe find a lightweight that can handle 28 mm tires in case I want a little extra comfort). I'll definitely try the rent route if that is an option for me, as I think I'd probably want at least a solid 1-1.5 hour ride and maybe 2 smaller, 30 minute rides, to really get a sense for what the bike would feel like.
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Old 08-16-19, 11:31 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
Thanks. I looked at the geometry of the Domane vs. Emonda vs. Sirrus. Can anyone point out the big dimensions that really stand out that make the Sirrus turn worse than the Domane or Emonda? I notice Trail, but the Sirrus is only like 1 mm worse than the Domane. I realize that is probably more going into the weeds than I need to, but I like numbers (damn Engineers), so I am curious.
My recommendation of a Domane was more for fit, not handling.


For your long legs/short torso you might find that the Emonda has you too stretched out, or with your hands too low. At your height, I would try a 60cm Emonda and a 60cm Domane. you will quickly feel the difference. Both will handle fine, but the Domane has a shorter TT and a longer head tube.

If you look at both geometry charts, compare the difference in stack and reach.
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Old 08-16-19, 11:34 AM
  #32  
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Comfort should really be thought of in terms of (lack of) hurt. Riding a bike is never comfortable like getting a massage.

Endurance bikes can be more comfortable in terms of fit. That's going to affect things like your neck hurting, the amount of weight you have on your hands.

Wide tires can be more comfortable in terms of "soaking up" road buzz, smaller bumps like seams in pavement. They won't do anything for your neck and hands.
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Old 08-16-19, 12:15 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
Thanks. I looked at the geometry of the Domane vs. Emonda vs. Sirrus. Can anyone point out the big dimensions that really stand out that make the Sirrus turn worse than the Domane or Emonda? I notice Trail, but the Sirrus is only like 1 mm worse than the Domane. I realize that is probably more going into the weeds than I need to, but I like numbers (damn Engineers), so I am curious.

I think from reading here my main takeaway is to try out a few bikes, lightweight and endurance, and see which one fits me the best. It sounds like while a lightweight is theoretically faster, that's only the case if it is fitted well so I can deliver power optimally, so if I fit into an endurance geometry better, it's likely to be a better overall choice for me. Similarly, my planned rides aren't particularly long, so if a lightweight fits me well, the duration of my ride is unlikely to warrant the need for the added comfort of an endurance bike (just maybe find a lightweight that can handle 28 mm tires in case I want a little extra comfort). I'll definitely try the rent route if that is an option for me, as I think I'd probably want at least a solid 1-1.5 hour ride and maybe 2 smaller, 30 minute rides, to really get a sense for what the bike would feel like.
Since you haven't yet mentioned the desire to dice it up with others in crit races, all of the talk about handling deficiencies of endurance vs race is rather silly. Basically, I'd argue that unless you *know* that want crit bike handling, you don't want crit bike handling; endurance geo certainly isn't going to keep you from hanging with with your A group club rides or snagging town sign sprints and, as mentioned by others, the stability/lack of twitchiness should probably be placed in the "pro" category, not the "con."
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Old 08-16-19, 12:53 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
My recommendation of a Domane was more for fit, not handling.


For your long legs/short torso you might find that the Emonda has you too stretched out, or with your hands too low. At your height, I would try a 60cm Emonda and a 60cm Domane. you will quickly feel the difference. Both will handle fine, but the Domane has a shorter TT and a longer head tube.

If you look at both geometry charts, compare the difference in stack and reach.
This is good advice.
I also have longer than average legs for my height and my Domane fit me well.
If you can't ride with a large saddle/bar drop you will not be able to get a good fit on bikes with short head tubes and/or long reaches.
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Old 08-16-19, 01:10 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
. I'll definitely try the rent route if that is an option for me, as I think I'd probably want at least a solid 1-1.5 hour ride and maybe 2 smaller, 30 minute rides, to really get a sense for what the bike would feel like.
I think this is the best approach. Talk to you LBS .

Most people that just start riding will find the upright position(endurance bike) is more comfortable than a very aggressive race position(race bike), because we started bicycling with flat bars and in the upright positions when were were kids.

But after a few years of riding when your body becomes accustomed to riding fast on the road you would want to go faster-that means lower with better power delivery.
Even most bike manufactures changed their original "endurance" bikes geometries to more aggressive "endurance" geometries to make them feel less sluggish.
Endurance bikes are easier to ride with no hands and more stable in a straight line. To me they just do not feel as "fast" and snappy, witch means they feel sluggish and less fun than a full race bike. And I love riding because it is fun. I wish bike manufactures will start making "race" geometry bikes that fit bigger tires(32-35mm)
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Old 08-16-19, 01:23 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
I think this is the best approach. Talk to you LBS .

Most people that just start riding will find the upright position(endurance bike) is more comfortable than a very aggressive race position(race bike), because we started bicycling with flat bars and in the upright positions when were were kids.

But after a few years of riding when your body becomes accustomed to riding fast on the road you would want to go faster-that means lower with better power delivery.
Even most bike manufactures changed their original "endurance" bikes geometries to more aggressive "endurance" geometries to make them feel less sluggish.
Endurance bikes are easier to ride with no hands and more stable in a straight line. To me they just do not feel as "fast" and snappy, witch means they feel sluggish and less fun than a full race bike. And I love riding because it is fun. I wish bike manufactures will start making "race" geometry bikes that fit bigger tires(32-35mm)
What you arenít taking into account is his long legs/shot torso. Iím 6í2Ē but my inseam is 37Ē. On a 60cm Domane, I stil have about 5 inches of saddle to handlebar drop.
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Old 08-16-19, 01:34 PM
  #37  
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Comfort(fit) also depends on the weekly millage.
If someone rides 30-50 miles a week than a hybrid is the most comfortable bike there is .

Most people on these forums advise other riders that the relaxed position bikes with shorter top tube and taller head tube are more comfortable than race bikes.

One should just go and buy both bikes and put 250-400 mile a week on each riding to see what is more "comfortable".
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Old 08-16-19, 01:45 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
Comfort(fit) also depends on the weekly millage.
If someone rides 30-50 miles a week than a hybrid is the most comfortable bike there is .

Most people on these forums advise other riders that the relaxed position bikes with shorter top tube and taller head tube are more comfortable than race bikes.

One should just go and buy both bikes and put 250-400 mile a week on each riding to see what is more "comfortable".
Well, I see your point, but I ride 11k-14k miles a year, and recently did a 103 mile ride, with 2 friends, in 4:34

fit is very important, and as you can see from my bike, itís not an upright riding position.
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Old 08-16-19, 01:49 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
What you arenít taking into account is his long legs/shot torso. Iím 6í2Ē but my inseam is 37Ē. On a 60cm Domane, I stil have about 5 inches of saddle to handlebar drop.
You are right and that is why I recommend talking to LBS and renting a couple of bikes. Initial fit on a bike like that may be easier for the OP since he is riding a hybrid, but if he keeps riding lots and fast his fit and comfort will change to the more aggressive position even with the short torso and long legs
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Old 08-16-19, 01:50 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Well, I see your point, but I ride 11k-14k miles a year, and recently did a 103 mile ride, with 2 friends, in 4:34

fit is very important, and as you can see from my bike, itís not an upright riding position.
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Old 08-16-19, 02:11 PM
  #41  
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Thanks for the additional replies. Last question I'll ask (for now), which I am sure is subjective. Given everything I've said, and ignoring the fact that Spring is a while away, would it be a better idea to look into an entry level bike (i.e. $1000ish, Aluminum, 2x9) until I get a better sense, or are they close enough for what I am looking to do right now that if I find a good one and it fits and feels good, to consider a mid-tier ($2000, maybe Carbon, 2x11) for more growth out of it? I'm sure there are people who were in a similar position to myself that have input, or have had friends in similar positions and saw how it played out.
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Old 08-16-19, 02:35 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
Thanks for the additional replies. Last question I'll ask (for now), which I am sure is subjective. Given everything I've said, and ignoring the fact that Spring is a while away, would it be a better idea to look into an entry level bike (i.e. $1000ish, Aluminum, 2x9) until I get a better sense, or are they close enough for what I am looking to do right now that if I find a good one and it fits and feels good, to consider a mid-tier ($2000, maybe Carbon, 2x11) for more growth out of it? I'm sure there are people who were in a similar position to myself that have input, or have had friends in similar positions and saw how it played out.
My original road bike after a couple of hybrids was a used Raleigh that I outgrew within a year or two. My first "real" bike was the original CAAD 3 a la Mario Cipollini Saeco Cannondale that I bought new . That bike was a lot of fun, but got hit by a car.

I would suggest the best bike including used that you can justify at this point price-wise .

It is also fun to work on your fit when you start riding lots. I have boxes of stems and saddles that I accumulated over the years because fit changes over the years( age, flexibility and fitness levels).
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Old 08-16-19, 02:57 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Andrey View Post
My original road bike after a couple of hybrids was a used Raleigh that I outgrew within a year or two. My first "real" bike was the original CAAD 3 a la Mario Cipollini Saeco Cannondale that I bought new . That bike was a lot of fun, but got hit by a car.

I would suggest the best bike including used that you can justify at this point price-wise .

It is also fun to work on your fit when you start riding lots. I have boxes of stems and saddles that I accumulated over the years because fit changes over the years( age, flexibility and fitness levels).
+1.

I would definitely look for a used bike with 5800 series 105 components. You should be able to find one for about a $1000. I wouldnít buy anything without determining what really fits. Once you have a good idea of what fits, youíll know what bikes might work.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:32 PM
  #44  
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Hmmm - buying a bike now that you HOPE will become comfortable at some point in the unknown future as your fitness /flexibility / strength improve? That's a bad bet, IMO.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:39 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Jaeger99 View Post
Hmmm - buying a bike now that you HOPE will become comfortable at some point in the unknown future as your fitness /flexibility / strength improve? That's a bad bet, IMO. Particularly for an older rider.
+1.

I would try to determine what fits now, and look for one that would allow some adjustments for when you get a little more fit.

donít break the bank on this bike.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:42 PM
  #46  
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Just bought an Endurance bike a few weeks ago, a Cannondale Synapse, the Aluminum one with Shmano 105. Just wanted to make a few points that steered my decision and might be useful:

1. To me it was super important to have rack mounts. On longer rides, I like to pack some food, extra water, sometimes a camera. So I like having a rack. I guess Iím not very concerned about weight. But speed isnít very important to me. I seem to average about 14-15 mph and thatís fine, Iíll probably get faster in time. My rides are generally 30-50 miles, but Iíve done a century.

2. Iíd heard that aluminum frames were harsh and brutal to ride and Iíd only ever ridden steel prior to the Synapse. I let that get in my head and originally only looked at steel bikes. Finally I test rode the aluminum Synapse and I found it perfectly comfortable and nice to ride. At least Cannondale is designing these frames well.

3. I went from the racey 1981 Bianchi to the Synapse, the endurance geometry is significantly more comfortable. Itís a tad more sedate, but not in a bad way.

4. The Synapse is great on packed limestone trails. I never avoided these on my Bianchi, but the Synapse just loves them. This is nice because a lot of the intercity MUPs where I live arenít paved. Iím not going to do single track or anything, but itís nice to know I donít need to fear gravel.

Iím very happy with the endurance geometry, and I think itís a great choice for someone like me who just wants to ride around for exercise, but also to see how the world looks from the saddle.
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Old 08-16-19, 03:52 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Well, I see your point, but I ride 11k-14k miles a year, and recently did a 103 mile ride, with 2 friends, in 4:34

fit is very important, and as you can see from my bike, itís not an upright riding position.
Damn!
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Old 08-16-19, 03:54 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by am0n View Post
Thanks for the additional replies. Last question I'll ask (for now), which I am sure is subjective. Given everything I've said, and ignoring the fact that Spring is a while away, would it be a better idea to look into an entry level bike (i.e. $1000ish, Aluminum, 2x9) until I get a better sense, or are they close enough for what I am looking to do right now that if I find a good one and it fits and feels good, to consider a mid-tier ($2000, maybe Carbon, 2x11) for more growth out of it? I'm sure there are people who were in a similar position to myself that have input, or have had friends in similar positions and saw how it played out.
I would probably get an acceptable used bike at this point, not too expensive. After you've been riding it a while, assuming you get the bug, you'll want to upgrade (no matter what bike you get now) and having more experience with a road bike will help you determine what you really want and need.
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Old 08-16-19, 05:15 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Damn!
I may be oldish, but I'm not slow, and in the way(yet).
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Old 08-16-19, 05:25 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I would probably get an acceptable used bike at this point, not too expensive. After you've been riding it a while, assuming you get the bug, you'll want to upgrade (no matter what bike you get now) and having more experience with a road bike will help you determine what you really want and need.
That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Do some research, maybe pay for a fit(on a bike that you think is ideal), and do some more research on finding a bike that fits now. Don't spend a ton of money on a bike, until you figure out what fits your body.
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