Why did Titanium not take off amongst Pros?
08-23-19, 01:23 PM
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08-23-19, 07:44 PM
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I got mine about 9 years ago, I must have been 27. My wife has a carbon bike from the same timeframe... they look very different. My Lynskey still looks new... the paint on hers... not so much.
Ti can be a good value, especially considering the durability. Was looking at gravel bikes last winter. $3300 for a handmade USA Ti bike with 105 hydraulics... or a chinese slave labor Salsas Warbird with paint that will scratch and chip for $3400 from LBS. It's kind of a no brainer.
Ti can be a good value, especially considering the durability. Was looking at gravel bikes last winter. $3300 for a handmade USA Ti bike with 105 hydraulics... or a chinese slave labor Salsas Warbird with paint that will scratch and chip for $3400 from LBS. It's kind of a no brainer.
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08-23-19, 08:53 PM
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I haven't noticed any noobs posting a thread to ask about their bike being told pics or GTFO, have you?
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08-23-19, 10:51 PM
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Lynskey seems to be the sweet spot for value. Can someone explain the differences amongst their models? Their website doesn't do a good job at it.
08-24-19, 12:45 AM
#106
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My '93 Trek 5900 has most of the original titanium components -- Ibis stem, American Classic seat post. I'm not sure but I think at least some of the bits in the King headset and White bottom bracket are titanium. Pretty nifty, but probably not much lighter than aluminum. I just replaced the ridiculously long Ibis stem with an aluminum FSA stem. I don't have a scale but they felt about the same weight, although the FSA stem looks much chunkier. The Ibis stem is slender and elegant.
A titanium bike is on my wish list. I don't care whether it's lighter or faster. I just want one.
A titanium bike is on my wish list. I don't care whether it's lighter or faster. I just want one.
08-24-19, 09:20 AM
#108
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Ti can be a good value, especially considering the durability. Was looking at gravel bikes last winter. $3300 for a handmade USA Ti bike with 105 hydraulics... or a chinese slave labor Salsas Warbird with paint that will scratch and chip for $3400 from LBS. It's kind of a no brainer.
seems to be great value
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/ribble-cgr-ti/#HOWTOBUY
08-24-19, 01:39 PM
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When I was shopping a few years back they had a series of YouTube videos that explained the differences. If you narrow it down to a couple you can email them with specific questions.
08-24-19, 05:55 PM
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There can easily be more manual labour involved in a carbon frameset than a metal one, and there's almost certainly far more work gone into the design.
And if you were to take an open mold Chinese carbon frameset of today back in time to 1992, you'd be killed for it.
And if you were to take an open mold Chinese carbon frameset of today back in time to 1992, you'd be killed for it.
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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08-24-19, 06:00 PM
#111
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Link to sources on this? How many Pro's are riding around on hand built carbon frames in the peloton?
They are all riding cookie cutter molded frames from Asia.
08-24-19, 06:13 PM
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Lolwut. You think they have machines to lay up all the sections of carbon? The mold doesn't mean less work. Have a think how much work goes into the mold, too.
Every monocoque carbon frame is hand built.
Every monocoque carbon frame is hand built.
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08-24-19, 06:48 PM
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Pro's ride what they are told to ride.
Want to buy a disposable plastic frame that you will be "upgrading" every couple of years, go for your life.
I will still be riding my steel and Ti frames.
I won't ever buy a plastic bike regardless of who built it, how many hours it took or whether it is moulded, monocoque or even lugged.
08-24-19, 06:55 PM
#114
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How many people are talking to you about it? Ask anyone with a clue.
It's pretty plain from your language that you're biased against carbon. I'm sorry technology hurts your feelings.
It's pretty plain from your language that you're biased against carbon. I'm sorry technology hurts your feelings.
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
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08-24-19, 07:04 PM
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You are the only one saying that.
Pro's ride what they are told to ride.
Want to buy a disposable plastic frame that you will be "upgrading" every couple of years, go for your life.
I will still be riding my steel and Ti frames.
I won't ever buy a plastic bike regardless of who built it, how many hours it took or whether it is moulded, monocoque or even lugged.
Pro's ride what they are told to ride.
Want to buy a disposable plastic frame that you will be "upgrading" every couple of years, go for your life.
I will still be riding my steel and Ti frames.
I won't ever buy a plastic bike regardless of who built it, how many hours it took or whether it is moulded, monocoque or even lugged.
I’m not still riding my Lemond titanium. After multiple paint jobs required for flacking paint, the frame cracked. Just as well as the bottom bracket area had the worse flex, made for constant chain rub. POS titanium does exist and it let me go to carbon, which I love.
Last edited by Steve B.; 08-24-19 at 07:07 PM.
08-24-19, 07:21 PM
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From the assorted manufacturing videos I’ve seen, the layup is all by human hand. It’s a labor intensive process, though maybe not requiring the same level of skill as a metal bike builder whose skill is all in the welding and brazing. But it’s not an automated process.
I’m not still riding my Lemond titanium. After multiple paint jobs required for flacking paint, the frame cracked. Just as well as the bottom bracket area had the worse flex, made for constant chain rub. POS titanium does exist and it let me go to carbon, which I love.
I’m not still riding my Lemond titanium. After multiple paint jobs required for flacking paint, the frame cracked. Just as well as the bottom bracket area had the worse flex, made for constant chain rub. POS titanium does exist and it let me go to carbon, which I love.
V's multiple breakages over the same time that my friends have had with their CF frames (1 friend broke 2 Trek's in a year).
I am looking forward to the day in 30 years when we have a Retro Carbon Fibre page on here
08-24-19, 07:22 PM
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Add in aero optimisation, for what little it's really worth, and you're definitely talking something only a large company can achieve. (Although I guess now that design cat is out of the bag, since aero frames are all a pretty similar shape.)
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Last edited by Kimmo; 08-24-19 at 07:25 PM.
08-24-19, 07:40 PM
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The skill in building a carbon monocoque is in both the design of the frame itself, and the design of the tooling and processes to make it, which far transcends the abilities of an individual artisan; it's a proper full-blown bit of industrial engineering.
Add in aero optimisation, for what little it's really worth, and you're definitely talking something only a large company can achieve. (Although I guess now that design cat is out of the bag, since aero frames are all a pretty similar shape.)
Add in aero optimisation, for what little it's really worth, and you're definitely talking something only a large company can achieve. (Although I guess now that design cat is out of the bag, since aero frames are all a pretty similar shape.)
08-24-19, 09:00 PM
#121
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The skill in building a carbon monocoque is in both the design of the frame itself, and the design of the tooling and processes to make it, which far transcends the abilities of an individual artisan; it's a proper full-blown bit of industrial engineering.
Add in aero optimisation, for what little it's really worth, and you're definitely talking something only a large company can achieve. (Although I guess now that design cat is out of the bag, since aero frames are all a pretty similar shape.)
Add in aero optimisation, for what little it's really worth, and you're definitely talking something only a large company can achieve. (Although I guess now that design cat is out of the bag, since aero frames are all a pretty similar shape.)
e) i also find the "cookie cutter" comment really funny. I've owned three bikes, two of which were lugged steel. I love traditional geometry lugged steel racing bikes. They also all look the same, until you get into examining cutouts/lug shapes etc. Like there's no way I could tell an unpainted Colnago from an unpainted Puch from the 80s without looking up cutouts/lug shapes/etc, while I could absolutely tell the difference between the current pro tour Bianchi Oltre/Tarmac/Argon 18 without any paint on them. Cookie cutter indeed.
And full disclosure, I'm also biased against carbon, it's just that I think aero tubes are sins against bike aesthetics and everything should look like a Merckx Corsa Extra
Last edited by sheddle; 08-24-19 at 09:16 PM.
08-24-19, 09:56 PM
#122
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So in other words, the quality of the design and making of good carbon frames rests on the expertise of the designers and engineers of the machines. So the rest of the process, the laborious part, can be done with semi-skilled labor. Is that right? So with the economy of a large scale, if you get the design right, produce a lot at low marginal costs, and you make money on an inexpensive product.
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08-24-19, 11:20 PM
#123
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So, less cut cookies, more woven baskets.
Good point about lugged steel being cookie cutter business, lol.
Buy the lugs, cut the tubes, slot em together and cook, bingo. Highly skilled cookie cutting, but nonetheless...
Good point about lugged steel being cookie cutter business, lol.
Buy the lugs, cut the tubes, slot em together and cook, bingo. Highly skilled cookie cutting, but nonetheless...
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Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Last edited by Kimmo; 08-24-19 at 11:24 PM.
08-25-19, 12:11 AM
#124
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These troll threads never die.
Metallurgy is fairly mature at this point, resin based structures are all the rage.
Plastic can indeed be quite durable, I'm partial to metal and wood myself.
When it was dismantled, the house was so indestructible that the crew gave up and left some of the support pilings in place (they can still be seen in Neptune’s Grotto between the Tomorrowland entrance and Fantasyland). Supposedly the planned one-day demolition ended up taking two weeks as the wrecking ball just bounced off the exterior. Workers cut the house into pieces with hacksaws. After it was removed, the house’s landscaping, waterfalls, and walkways (and sturdy base!) remained.
Last edited by SHBR; 08-25-19 at 12:58 AM.
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08-25-19, 05:42 AM
#125
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As I recall, Pinarello wouldn't let him keep any of his team bikes because he quit racing before the contract was up. Indurain asked his pals in the peleton for recommendations, and the decision came down to Colnago (steel) versus Cannondale (aluminum). He bought a Cannondale. I remember our Cannondale sales rep saying, "We'd have given him one if he'd asked!"
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