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One Man’s View Of Disc Brakes

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

One Man’s View Of Disc Brakes

Old 08-29-19, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Well, you shouldn't be fine with the bike industry limiting your choices and forcing you to be locked to your shop for expensive yearly maintenance (hydraulic discs).
The bike industry has always limited your choices. This is SOP.

(Standard Operating Procedure)
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Old 08-29-19, 12:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
...and forcing you to be locked to your shop for expensive yearly maintenance (hydraulic discs).
Good one.
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Old 08-29-19, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Well, you shouldn't be fine with the bike industry limiting your choices and forcing you to be locked to your shop for expensive yearly maintenance (hydraulic discs).

For riding in relatively flat and dry conditions, discs add a bunch of unnecessary weight, complexity and incompatibilities.

I was riding with a fast crowd yesterday on a ride that alternated between soul-crushing climbs and warp-speed twisty descents. With rim brakes and Scott brake pads, I was likely braking at the limits of wheel adhesion to the pavement. And this was on good dry asphalt. Good thing I was on rim brakes.
It costs a manufacturer more money to design and build disc and rim brake variants of the same frame. Most of the top end frames still do come in both versions, but I can understand why the manufacturers are moving towards disc-only designs. No, I don't much like it, but I can learn how to do my own maintenance on hydraulic disc brakes if I have to.

And now I'm off to yell at Cannondale for not making the rim brake version of their new Supersix Evo Hi-Mod available to the public.
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Old 08-30-19, 12:38 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
The bike industry has always limited your choices. This is SOP.

(Standard Operating Procedure)
If I want a frame made of elephant bones, you should be angry that Trek won't make me one. 🤓
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Old 08-30-19, 06:07 AM
  #180  
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I you want a mass market bike spec'd to a price by a product manager and an accountant, you're going to get stuck with disk brakes. Rim brakes will always be available for the connisours.
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Old 08-30-19, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Well, you shouldn't be fine with the bike industry limiting your choices and forcing you to be locked to your shop for expensive yearly maintenance (hydraulic discs).
Originally Posted by McNamara
No, I don't much like it, but I can learn how to do my own maintenance on hydraulic disc brakes if I have to.
Maintaining hydraulic discs isn't hard to do, nor is it expensive.
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Old 08-31-19, 05:20 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Maintaining hydraulic discs isn't hard to do, nor is it expensive.
But why should I have to maintain Hydraulic systems on a bike at all. Proper mechanical rim and disc brakes do a fine job for 90% of us?
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Old 08-31-19, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
Proper mechanical rim and disc brakes do a fine job for 90% of us?
and they still require some maintenance.
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Old 08-31-19, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
But why should I have to maintain Hydraulic systems on a bike at all. Proper mechanical rim and disc brakes do a fine job for 90% of us?
Then don't. Stick with the "good enough" that you're familiar with. If you should want a snazzy new bike sometime down the line, and it's only available with hydro discs, kvetch about it online, pausing every once in a while to yell at the kids that just won't get off of your lawn.
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Old 08-31-19, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Then don't. Stick with the "good enough" that you're familiar with. If you should want a snazzy new bike sometime down the line, and it's only available with hydro discs, kvetch about it online, pausing every once in a while to yell at the kids that just won't get off of your lawn.
I remember people saying this about 6. 7. 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 speed cassettes/freewheels.

I'm very happy with 11 speed, and not looking forward to 12 speed. With the current standards, it doesn't give me more usable gears.

Last edited by noodle soup; 09-01-19 at 09:00 AM.
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Old 08-31-19, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
But why should I have to maintain Hydraulic systems on a bike at all. Proper mechanical rim and disc brakes do a fine job for 90% of us?
What is this "maintenance" you speak of?
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Old 08-31-19, 08:18 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
I remember people saying this about 6. 7. 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12 speed cassettes/freewheels.

I'm very happy with 11 speed, but not looking forward to 12 speed. With the current standards, it doesn't give me more usable gears.
My plan is to ride 11 speed until it gets hard to find parts or there is a large jump in technology.
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Old 08-31-19, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by xroadcharlie
But why should I have to maintain Hydraulic systems on a bike at all. Proper mechanical rim and disc brakes do a fine job for 90% of us?
Is somebody holding a gun to your head? Did all the rim braked bikes on the planet get stolen?
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Old 08-31-19, 09:38 PM
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I've been putting on some miles with a local seniors cycling club. Average age: About 60. The 'A' rides are generally long and fast, as this crowd rides 300 plus days per year. Depths of the winter arr spent riding in Scottsdale.

No shortage of disposable income either; this crowd can afford anything.

Anyway, this crowd is increasingly locked to their shops due to internal frame cable routing, hydraulic discs, electronic shifting and tubeless. Routine maintenance tasks that 20 years ago they would have been embarrassed to take to a shop are now the norm.

As far as the bike industry is concerned: Mission accomplished, I guess.

Fortunately, despite yearly bike hardware budgets in excess of $10k, most of the smarter folks in this crowd have not caved into the road disc nonsense.
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Old 08-31-19, 09:41 PM
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It's a conspirathy, only Dave is smart enough to see through the evil plan and avoid a life of slavery.
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Old 08-31-19, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
It's a conspirathy, only Dave is smart enough to see through the evil plan and avoid a life of slavery.
I wonder what proportion of mechanics stick with external cables, English BBs, and rim brakes...?

/puts up hand
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Old 09-01-19, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
I wonder what proportion of mechanics stick with external cables, English BBs, and rim brakes...?

/puts up hand
I'm not a member of your group, but I know some mechanics that are luddites.
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Old 09-01-19, 01:59 AM
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Hey, I like mad tech, for sure. I usually like to come along when it's ten or fifteen years old though, after the wrinkles have been ironed out.

First generation aero bike, anyone?
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Old 09-01-19, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Hey, I like mad tech, for sure. I usually like to come along when it's ten or fifteen years old though, after the wrinkles have been ironed out.

First generation aero bike, anyone?
Disc brakes on bicycles are nearly 40 years old, now. Shimano and Formula were selling them in catalogs starting in 1971.** If you only wait 10-15 years, you should have adopted them back in the mid 1980s.

https://classiccycleus.com/home/thats-the-brakes/
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/a-brie...akes-2017.html


**These very early consumer versions were in a lockstep competition with the Campagnolo Delta brakes to see which could stop a bike worse.

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Old 09-01-19, 06:40 AM
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Don't be pedantic. IMO there are still a few niggles with road disc, which realistically, has only been a thing for a few years.
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Old 09-01-19, 06:55 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
Anyway, this crowd is increasingly locked to their shops due to internal frame cable routing, hydraulic discs, electronic shifting and tubeless. Routine maintenance tasks that 20 years ago they would have been embarrassed to take to a shop are now the norm.

As far as the bike industry is concerned: Mission accomplished, I guess.
It's funny that you credit a Big Bike conspiracy when you've already provided the more simple, and more likely, answer -

Originally Posted by Dave Mayer
No shortage of disposable income either; this crowd can afford anything.
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Old 09-01-19, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer

Anyway, this crowd is increasingly locked to their shops due to internal frame cable routing, hydraulic discs, electronic shifting and tubeless. Routine maintenance tasks that 20 years ago they would have been embarrassed to take to a shop are now the norm.
Tubeless is nothing that the average cyclist can't handle at home, and exactly what maintenance is needed with electronic shifting?
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Old 09-01-19, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup
Tubeless is nothing that the average cyclist can't handle at home, and exactly what maintenance is needed with electronic shifting?
What about the baffling and confounding internal cable routing?
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Old 09-01-19, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by big john
What about the baffling and confounding internal cable routing?
It's really easy with the right tools.

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Old 09-01-19, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
Hey, I like mad tech, for sure. I usually like to come along when it's ten or fifteen years old though, after the wrinkles have been ironed out.

First generation aero bike, anyone?
I do prefer a threaded BB, but most of mine are Italian threaded.
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