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Installing Tubeless on tubeless convertible

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Installing Tubeless on tubeless convertible

Old 08-23-19, 08:31 AM
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Gearjockey
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Installing Tubeless on tubeless convertible

I recently installed tubeless continental GP 5000 Roadie tires in my giant SL1 aluminum rims with which I had been running tube GP4K’s for 3 years. I used Stan’s no-tube valves and sealant. My first attempt went OK (held air) then I did the second, rear rim. Overnight,the front tire (first job) did not hold air and I believe I may have installed the tape incorrectly. I have watched YouTube so I am familiar with the process. My question is: if I absolutely cannot get a tire to hold air even after re-taping, can I revert back to using tubes in my new tubeless tires as a permanent fix? Additionally, any other suggestions about the process of fixing a failed installation would be appreciated. Thank you.

Last edited by Gearjockey; 08-23-19 at 09:48 AM. Reason: Spelling
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Old 08-23-19, 08:47 AM
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What makes you think that you botched the tape job? By all means, re-tape if you think it's necessary, but it's not unusual for a tubeless set-up to have a slow leak upon initial installation.

You have sealant in there, right? If not, get it in. Re-inflate and give the wheels some spins (or, better yet, go for a ride) to allow the sealant to find and plug the leaks. Check the pressure again at the end of the day. If there's another significant drop, re-inflate again, give it more spins and check again in the morning.

If all else fails, yeah, you can always throw a tube in there.

Oh, also - use sealant that's got a good reputation at road bike tire pressures; I prefer Orange Seal. Stan's/Stan's Race seems to have pretty mixed results at higher-than-MTB pressures.
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Old 08-23-19, 08:50 AM
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Was the tape wide enough to where it approaches the bead but does not incorporate it?

Is your valve stems air tight? Do not overtighten to the point where it deforms the seal and lets air escape.

If yes to all of the above did you add sealant and spin the tires?
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Old 08-23-19, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
What makes you think that you botched the tape job? By all means, re-tape if you think it's necessary, but it's not unusual for a tubeless set-up to have a slow leak upon initial installation.


If all else fails, yeah, you can always throw a tube in there.
Sometimes I'll throw a tube in there after taping the rim, inflate it to 120psi, and leave it overnight. This helps the tape stick a little better.

Pull out the tube, and reinstall the valve(don't over-tighten it) then inflate the tire. Let out the air after the beads have set, remove the valve core and inject the sealant. Replace the core, and make sure the core is tight. Inflate the tire to about 80psi, and swish the sealant around to make sure it gets all over the beads.
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Old 08-23-19, 09:26 AM
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Sorry, I was typing on a mobile while in a TSA line at airport. I tried to fix the typing errata. Yes, I used sealant, and spun tires. I even let tires sit on a bucket, level on both sides for about a 1/2 hr each side. Frustrating to fly out of town when you want to get it right and you know it will require some more time upon return. The reason I think it may have failed is because when I attempted to re-inflate this morning as I was getting ready for my trip, the air was leaking out the “weep hole” on the rim. Thinking maybe I didn’t seat the tape well enough.

Thanks for all your help!
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Old 08-23-19, 10:22 AM
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Yep, it sounds like your tape or tape job.
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Old 08-23-19, 11:08 AM
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Well, I wouldn't give up just yet - reinflate it and go for a short ride before redoing your whole process.
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Old 08-23-19, 11:21 AM
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You could but I would ensure the tape width is optimal and not just wide enough to cover spoke holes. For example, if you have a 21mm internal width rim, 25mm tape would probably be optimal to approach the bead but not incorporate it.
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Old 08-23-19, 12:29 PM
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I am also reading that double taping (2 complete revolutions) is another, possibly effective technique? I only overlapped by 2 spokes on either side of valve hole. Used Orange-Seal brand rim tape. I actually do enjoy the process. Even the problems which create more learning.

thanks
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Old 08-24-19, 08:21 AM
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I’ve only done one revolution of tape but I know the guys from November bikes always used two when converting certain rims to tubeless with good success.
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Old 08-24-19, 09:55 PM
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Update:

I stripped off the tires and found the problem. When I inflated the tires to 80 psi, the tape (Orange Seal brand) failed through a spoke hole. The tape couldn’t handle the pressure. That was after one revolution. So I cleaned everything and made 2 revs on the front. On the rear, I made 2 revs and added a 8 mm strip of Gorilla tape in the center to cover the spoke holes. However, this added another 25 grams. I had a very difficult time putting the tires on with this method because of the added thickness of the Gorilla tape so I may have a tough time when I get a flat in the field. Does anyone know of a better tape brand?

Thanks again.

Last edited by Gearjockey; 08-25-19 at 06:01 AM.
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Old 08-25-19, 01:07 AM
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Aside from spinning the wheel after adding sealant, I had to also shake my wheel to get it to seal up properly. Give it a try. Also, my front loses pressure overnight more quickly than my rear. I check post ride pressures and they remain the same; go figure

Last edited by Princess_Allez; 08-25-19 at 01:13 AM.
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Old 08-25-19, 06:05 AM
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I'm using Stan's tape - never had a problem with it and I've used it up to 105 PSI.

How much pressure are you running? I don't have any experience with OS tape, but I'm surprised that it's failing.
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Old 08-25-19, 08:36 AM
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I have used Stans as a replacement on my wheels
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Old 08-25-19, 08:49 AM
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The solution to a flat with a tubeless tire on the road is to throw a tube in so I'm assuming you can go back to tubes.
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Old 08-25-19, 11:17 AM
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I don't know about Orange Seal Tape, but Stan's recommends 2 layers of tape for high pressure tubeless. 1 layer for low pressure. 80 psi is high pressure.
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Old 08-25-19, 09:01 PM
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Was inflating 80 psi to seat tire beads. Then ran 65 front, 70 rear. So that was the problem. During my repair, I happened upon a Youtube instruction where someone started at the weld, opposite of the valve hole, and overlapped 2X. That’s what I did this time and it worked.

I rode a few times with the new Continental GP 5K TL yesterday and today. I like the ride although they’re not life-changing. I’m not sure I feel much difference between the tubed GP 4K’s but they’re nice.

I was shocked how quicky the tires deflated when I used 80 PSI to seat tire and thought about what a disaster that would be 40 mph or more descending a Colorado road in a turn. Definitely made me want to prevent that.

Thanks

Last edited by Gearjockey; 08-25-19 at 09:08 PM.
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Old 08-27-19, 06:47 PM
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I'm running my Mavic Ksyrium Elite USTs at 80 psi front and 95 psi at rear per my LBS recommendation. FWIW, I weigh approx. 187 lbs. Working well.
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Old 09-01-19, 11:56 AM
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i would suggest ghetto tubeless with an inner tube that's a size smaller. if you're rich pay the LBS do it for you. it's a safe, proven solution that works really well.

some 26" tubes will still not be stretched when mounted on road rims so be sure to go the right size before cutting a tube.
the very small increase in weight is worth it because:
1. there's no overlap so there's a tighter fit than with an overlapped tape;
2. butyl ensures a tighter fit by being more compressible than when using a rigid tape;
3. easy to remove in order to wash the space inside the rim from time to time or change a spoke etc.

but you still need to ensure a rigid layer for the nipple holes. depending on other factors - like rim compression by spoke tension, lightweight or normal tube - you need to get the right thickness for the underneath rim tape. it's best to have the hard rim tape go full width and the wider butyl layer with some climb. the thicker the butyl layer (avoiding lightweight tubes) the better. so have a not very thick hard layer underneath a normal tube layer.

How thick are rim tapes?


when mounting the tire finish at the valve so that you stretch the tire deep in the rim's channel at the opposite side of the valve.
you may still be able to mount the tire without levers by doing so.

and one more thing... have a proper wide rim for tubeless. 1.5x tire/rim would work very nice.
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Old 09-01-19, 06:35 PM
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Here is more info about the tube-as-rim strip idea. Butyl reinforced rim tape - for a high tensioned durable 36h wheel
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