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Rear facing camera or radar

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Rear facing camera or radar

Old 09-03-19, 01:28 PM
  #1  
Chaloney
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Rear facing camera or radar

Particularly asking those who have experience with both, which do you like better, a rear facing camera (like the cycliq) or a radar system (garmin varia)? Why?
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Old 09-03-19, 01:50 PM
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Ideally, both, but if I had to choose one: Varia. I like the idea of possibly preventing my demise. The radar let's me know the number, relative speed and distance between approaching cars. I can plan how I straddle the curb accordingly, or slow my roll so I'm not caught between a passing car and a parked vehicle, or even just redirect my route or take a water break.
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Old 09-03-19, 02:34 PM
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There are two types of people;

Those who love and swear by the Garmin Varia Rear Radar Taillight. And those who’ve never used it.

Particularly for rural type riding (which is 97% of what I do here in the UK) Varia is your first choice.

YMMV.
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Old 09-03-19, 02:37 PM
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Definitely Varia. I'd rather not get hit than be able to sue.
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Old 09-03-19, 03:10 PM
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A friend who bike commutes everywhere uses both. In the past week he's caught rear facing video of two different drivers on the same road locking up their brakes and skidding within a few yards of him, because they're too busy looking down at their phones. Two and three lane divided boulevard, not much traffic, plenty of room to pass safely, daylight visibility, zero excuses for those drivers.

Unfortunately the Cyliq and Garmin Varia are out of my budget.

I've occasionally mounted a second video camera on my seat post for this reason, although luckily I've had only one driver in four years who deliberately buzzed me within inches before lane splitting and flipping me off as he passed.

Unfortunately the mounts included with most sub-$100 cameras are crap and every one of 'em has cracked in a month's use -- helmet mount, handlebar mount, weatherproof case. And 90-120 minute runtime isn't enough for my longer rides. Most action cams aren't really suitable for cycling traffic documentation, especially with the tiny license plates in the US.

I've just ordered another camera -- Drift Ghost X, which includes a 5-hour battery and there's an optional 8-hour battery for $30. If this camera works out I'm gonna permanently set up good mounts on every bike's seat post and handlebar or head tube.
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Old 09-03-19, 03:53 PM
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Aren't those completely different technologies?
  • Cycliq is takes videos for later review.
  • Varia gives real-time feedback.
  • Might as well add a mirror that lets one see what is behind oneself (or listen and look).

The choice depends on the situation and the person.
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Old 09-03-19, 04:42 PM
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I can't directly compare the two, but both is probably the correct answer -- if your setup allows it. I bought the Varia recently and was surprised how much vertical space it needs (it's the RTL510, not the first gen). I have a lot of seatpost showing (my rides are smaller-sized compact frames with sloping tt), so am able to still keep my saddle bag, but I imagine many people would have to sacrifice their under-saddle storage for it.

I haven't used a Cycliq, but I've read mixed opinions on whether the rear-facing one is useful. I've seen references to stats showing more accidents are caused from behind, but then also read the opposite and that a front-facing camera is more useful at documenting accidents.
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Old 09-03-19, 04:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaloney View Post
Particularly asking those who have experience with both, which do you like better, a rear facing camera (like the cycliq) or a radar system (garmin varia)? Why?
I have both (Varia and Cycliq rear camera). I never use the rear camera but I always use the radar. The most useful camera for either dealing with infractions sent to LE is the front camera anyhow. I'd prefer being aware of what's behind rather than having the video of an incident after the fact. If you couple the usage of the Varia radar with a rear view mirror, the combination is pretty handy.

On top of that, the Varia taillight is considerably better than the Cycliq rear camera as a tail light.

So if you have to pick one, pick the Varia Radar. Excellent product. As said above, the only people that don't like it are people that haven't tried it. I completely agree with this.

Now here's the downside of the radar:
1. If you're in an urban environment, you can get overloaded with the target rich environment of heavy traffic behind you. It's still beneficial but the information may be of more limited utility. If you're on a rural road, it's golden, awesome, and amazing.

2. If you have a car pacing you, the "target" can drop off the radar since it really only sees targets that are approaching you. So any time you are going to turn into any part of the roadway that could have traffic, then you need to look behind you (or better, handle it with a mirror).
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Old 09-03-19, 09:48 PM
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Varia helps to keep the driver aware, it would blink at a faster pace as the car approach, I get much less close calls with the Varia, it also looks like a recording device so the driver is less likely to try something stupid
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Old 09-03-19, 10:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Chi_Z View Post
Varia helps to keep the driver aware, it would blink at a faster pace as the car approach, I get much less close calls with the Varia, it also looks like a recording device so the driver is less likely to try something stupid
^This. It's also as bright as car tail lamps (if not brighter). The higher flashing frequency would likely tip off a discerning motorist to the fact that it is a smart device. Also, if you pair it with a supportable fitness tracker, it will vibrate.
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Old 09-03-19, 10:35 PM
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I've found it pretty useful in the city. Knowing where the gaps are in traffic behind you means you have a good idea when to merge even before you look back.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Chi_Z View Post
Varia helps to keep the driver aware, it would blink at a faster pace as the car approach, I get much less close calls with the Varia, it also looks like a recording device so the driver is less likely to try something stupid
I don’t think the Varia is any more effective than other high bright day light capable taillights and I doubt many of any motorists are expecting recording taillights although it would be great if they did.

That said, the Varia is an excellent daytime taillight and a good taillight does do a lot for visibility and visibility translates into better motorist behavior. Since seatpost real estate is getting kind of valuable, having the rearward looking Radar and a great taillight in the same package is a great deal. The original Varia Radar has an all but worthless taillight.

Originally Posted by Princess_Allez View Post
^This. It's also as bright as car tail lamps (if not brighter). The higher flashing frequency would likely tip off a discerning motorist to the fact that it is a smart device. Also, if you pair it with a supportable fitness tracker, it will vibrate.
the vibration thing would be cool. I have to look into that.

Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I've found it pretty useful in the city. Knowing where the gaps are in traffic behind you means you have a good idea when to merge even before you look back.
I guess I meant to say that I don’t think it’s useless but that it can sort of be part of a task overload situation where there is a lot of stuff to keep track of all at once. But I agree it can be useful for finding voids in traffic.

Last edited by JohnJ80; 09-03-19 at 11:09 PM.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Chaloney View Post
Particularly asking those who have experience with both, which do you like better, a rear facing camera (like the cycliq) or a radar system (garmin varia)? Why?
I use both, the Cycliq and the Garmin Varia.

The Garmin provides me with an audible warning of traffic approaching from the rear.

The Cycliq will provide video evidence in case something goes very badly.

The two devices have different functions.

Hope this helps...let me know if you need more info.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:41 PM
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Regarding whether drivers consider recording devices, I'd say yup, some do. I've had some folks mistake one of my helmet mounted lights for a camera.

In actual practice I seldom wear a camera on my helmet anymore. My neck was broken in a 2001 wreck and some days I have so much pain in the C1 and C2 vertebrae that I can barely stand the weight of a helmet, let alone a 4-6 oz camera and mount. But I do still use front and rear helmet lights that weigh about 20 grams each.

With so many surveillance cameras everywhere people are more aware of being recorded. However that doesn't necessarily translate to greater awareness. And there will always be a tiny fraction of one per cent of people who are psychopaths, sociopaths and won't be deterred by anything.

Trying to be objective about the various near-misses I've experienced (and one direct hit, last year), most occur at intersections and can come from any direction. In practice the best location for a single video camera would be the helmet. But unless I can find a very lightweight model that won't be practical.

Several times this summer I've used front and rear bike-mounted cameras and reviewed the videos later to look for patterns in driver behavior. It appears the most common problem I've seen is drivers turning left across my path. Most commonly they'll creep into the intersection, looking for the slightest opportunity to jump into my path. Instead of making a correct left turn, they want to cut diagonally, sometimes running across curbs on median strips and islands. To avoid that I watch the lights carefully and, if there's no traffic from either side, I'll begin crossing the intersection when the opposing lights are yellow and mine is still red. It's the only way to avoid being hit by oncoming drivers who want to turn left.

I've recorded that driver behavior on every solo and group ride, including Tuesday's group ride. If there's an intersection that allows left turn after yield, and there's any traffic, invariably one or more drivers will attempt to cut off any cyclist moving directly ahead. Same thing, same places, every damned time. Left on flashing yellow after yield is a menace to public safety.

A few are right hooks. That's the problem with right on red and left on flashing yellow after yield. Drivers ignore the "after yield" part and regard right on red and left on flashing yellow as "Green light, go, I'm in a car, get out of my way."

Most of the times I've been hit while riding my bike or motorcycle was from behind at stop signs. I expected the rear facing camera to catch more drivers tailgating. But my videos show very little evidence of that. Doesn't mean it's safe or doesn't happen. But the times I've been hit from behind, the drivers always said the same stupid thing: "I didn't see you!" That's why I roll through stop sign intersections whenever it's safe for me to do so. If there's no oncoming traffic from ahead or the sides, and I see a car approaching from behind in my mirror, I'm rolling through.

That's also why I use brighter and more annoying taillights, and usually two or more of 'em. I want to eliminate "I didn't see you!" as an excuse for negligent driving.
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Old 09-04-19, 04:33 AM
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Can someone please explain how the Varia improves safety?
I usually ride on country roads and it isn't often that I don't hear a car approaching from behind.
I then move slightly closer to the kerb and ensure I hold a good straight line.
Isn't the main issue if the car does not pass safely and give you adequate room?
The Varia can't tell you if the car is going to give you 3' or 3" clearance or actually rear end you can it?
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Old 09-04-19, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
There are two types of people;

Those who love and swear by the Garmin Varia Rear Radar Taillight. And those who’ve never used it.

Particularly for rural type riding (which is 97% of what I do here in the UK) Varia is your first choice.

YMMV.
I've never used it. But doing mostly rural riding myself, I might think it would be disconcerting to know how fast some of the drivers are going.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Can someone please explain how the Varia improves safety?
I usually ride on country roads and it isn't often that I don't hear a car approaching from behind.
I then move slightly closer to the kerb and ensure I hold a good straight line.
Isn't the main issue if the car does not pass safely and give you adequate room?
The Varia can't tell you if the car is going to give you 3' or 3" clearance or actually rear end you can it?
Right, that's why a well adjusted mirror along with proper monitoring is better. No driver ever sneaks up on me, I can easily tell where they are, how fast they are approaching, and if they have moved left or slowed down.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Can someone please explain how the Varia improves safety?
I usually ride on country roads and it isn't often that I don't hear a car approaching from behind.
I then move slightly closer to the curb and ensure I hold a good straight line.
Isn't the main issue if the car does not pass safely and give you adequate room?
The Varia can't tell you if the car is going to give you 3' or 3" clearance or actually rear end you can it?
I use my Varia on every ride and bike tour. It provides additional information to make you safer on the road by more accurately understanding what's going on behind you quickly and easily.

On quiet country roads when you hear a car approaching from behind it gives fairly accurate distance information and if it is multiple vehicles. I have a natural tendency to move a bit closer to the edge of the road just as a car approaches as well as slide out a bit once it passes.

If there is an obstruction in the road from a pothole to a parked car I can quickly look down assure myself no car is close and slide-out safely.

On a narrow road when there is oncoming traffic as well as a car approaching from the rear at a higher rate of speed I can determine whether we will all be merging at the same point and adjust my speed or lane placement to avoid conflict.

When descending I normally take more of the lane and given the wind noise its good to know if there is a car approaching or you are holding one up and adjust appropriately.

I really enjoy mine and those of my riding mates seem to enjoy theirs.

An interesting use is I share my signal with my other riding friends when we ride together and have had multiple people using the same unit.
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Old 09-04-19, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
An interesting use is I share my signal with my other riding friends when we ride together and have had multiple people using the same unit.
That’s really a great use case.

one question; does the light control get confused if their head unit has a different default setting than your/primary head unit? I seem to remember default light control setting is “solid” and I keep mine at “high visibility”, and your use case made me think what would happen to light settings.

Thanks
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Old 09-04-19, 09:02 AM
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Originally Posted by kissTheApex View Post
That’s really a great use case.

one question; does the light control get confused if their head unit has a different default setting than your/primary head unit? I seem to remember default light control setting is “solid” and I keep mine at “high visibility”, and your use case made me think what would happen to light settings.

Thanks
Good question. Perhaps nobody has figured out how to muck with the settings yet. The Varia light settings have not changed yet with multiple users so perhaps it only pairs the radar portion. Will look next ride.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
An interesting use is I share my signal with my other riding friends when we ride together and have had multiple people using the same unit.
I've heard people say they were riding with a friend who had the Varia, when that person is in front they'll see it start to flash and know there's a car behind.

It had never occurred to me to share the signal and that's a clever trick. Thanks for posting!
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Old 09-04-19, 09:17 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Can someone please explain how the Varia improves safety?
I usually ride on country roads and it isn't often that I don't hear a car approaching from behind.
I then move slightly closer to the kerb and ensure I hold a good straight line.
Isn't the main issue if the car does not pass safely and give you adequate room?
The Varia can't tell you if the car is going to give you 3' or 3" clearance or actually rear end you can it?
It knows there's a car behind you before you can hear it.

For a brief while my experience was that it's more useful in the city than in rural areas, there's so much ambient noise in town that you can't hear cars until they're pretty close. That was until the first time I had a long decent on chipseal, the buzz is too loud.

I assume the reason you're asking is that your intrigued and considering one. If so, buy it from REI, Backcountry.com, or some other store with a good return policy. Then decide for yourself based on your own riding, with no financial risk.
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Old 09-04-19, 09:59 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by velopig View Post
An interesting use is I share my signal with my other riding friends when we ride together and have had multiple people using the same unit.
Yep. When I ride with my wife, we use one radar unit on her bike. She links to it with a dedicated display and I link to it with my computer. As a bonus, I'll get a message on my computer about losing the link if I accidentally drop her.
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Old 09-04-19, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by Dean V View Post
Can someone please explain how the Varia improves safety?
I usually ride on country roads and it isn't often that I don't hear a car approaching from behind.
I then move slightly closer to the kerb and ensure I hold a good straight line.
Isn't the main issue if the car does not pass safely and give you adequate room?
The Varia can't tell you if the car is going to give you 3' or 3" clearance or actually rear end you can it?
Here's a couple of situations where I find radar useful:

1. If a car is passing you, it can be difficult to hear a second (or third) car coming. Radar can track multiple vehicles, so you know how many cars are back there.

2. If you need to make a left turn (RH for U.K.) on a busy road, you can ride normally until the radar is clear, then check over your shoulder to make sure everything is good. It's a bit more convenient than continually checking over your shoulder. Also, some riders don't hold their line very well when looking over their shoulder, so this can be an asset in a group ride.
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Old 09-04-19, 11:05 AM
  #25  
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A couple asides with the Varia:
  • Wahoo Element/Bolt/Roam are now compatible (though they don't do the ANT+ light control, so you have to turn it on manually)
  • If you have Blue Cross/Blue Shield, there's a Garmin discount program - I hear that the Varia goes for ~$130 with this program; that's not that much more than a decent light.
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