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Swapping Italian carbon for new Italian steel! Help!!

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Swapping Italian carbon for new Italian steel! Help!!

Old 10-04-19, 01:46 PM
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LewisFernandes
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Swapping Italian carbon for new Italian steel! Help!!

Hi everyone! This is my first post so be gentle!

I thought I’d register on the forum, as my plan to start building a new steel bike will provide lots of opportunities to ask for advice and then pass it on in the future!

I’m trying to sell my 54cm De Rosa SK Pininfarina Ultegra to fund a new project that I feel resonates more with who I am as a cyclist. A new modern-retro steel beauty.

I’m currently weighing up and researching bikes like the Colnago Master & Arabesque, Cinelli Supercorsa, Wilier Superleggera and maybe a De Rosa Nuovo Classico. All the new frame sets. Having trouble deciding between these frames and wondering if anyone could help decide between them. I know for example that some of them differ with threadless forks etc which will mean quill stems will be possible on some and not others (I prefer quill) and other similar characteristics which set them apart.

It does have to be Italian I’m afraid, not because I am uninitiated and trendy, but because they really get me going and I have a real passion for Italian culture and craftsmanship.

If someone can help me pick one of these frames to build, I will be so so very grateful! Also, if anyone has one of these frames, I’d be interested to hear how they fit compared to a road bike like the one I have now.

Thanks!!
Lewis

PS- please tell me if this is the correct forum area for this post!! I was gonna post it in Classic/Vintage but it’s a new bike so...

Last edited by Homebrew01; 10-05-19 at 06:44 AM.
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Old 10-04-19, 02:14 PM
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jideta
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take a look at Casati
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Old 10-04-19, 02:25 PM
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eric1971
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Can't go wrong with a Master.

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Old 10-04-19, 02:29 PM
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CliffordK
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Building a frame?

Get the torch out!!!
https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/
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Old 10-04-19, 02:34 PM
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I have a pair of Colnagos, a Merckx and a pair of Guerciottis. The Merckx (not Italian) handles the best according to me. That said, an older Gilco tubed Master is a nice, predictable ride. Keep in mind that the newer Colnago Masters don't use Columbus Gilco tubing anymore if the "Italian" thing is important to you.

Last edited by nomadmax; 10-04-19 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 10-04-19, 02:42 PM
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Since you mention a quill stem and you're going with steel, the C&V section is super - if not exactly what you're after if you're going with new steel - everyone's very helpful, and the wealth of information is priceless. There's a big (big!) thread with old frames and modern groupsets - again, to give you ideas on things.

Might you consider picking up an old(er) De Rosa, Bianchi, Colnago, Cinelli, or Tommasini, or whatever you like... and build it up? You may be pleasantly surprised. My first project back into recreational cycling was an old patina'd Bianchi Sprint 76, not the best frame, but nice on the road, and since then I've done a '97 Colnago, a mid 90s Fondriest, a few other things too.

You really can't go wrong. Looking forward to your build!
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Old 10-04-19, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by ridelikeaturtle View Post
Since you mention a quill stem and you're going with steel, the C&V section is super - if not exactly what you're after if you're going with new steel - everyone's very helpful, and the wealth of information is priceless. There's a big (big!) thread with old frames and modern groupsets - again, to give you ideas on things.

Might you consider picking up an old(er) De Rosa, Bianchi, Colnago, Cinelli, or Tommasini, or whatever you like... and build it up? You may be pleasantly surprised. My first project back into recreational cycling was an old patina'd Bianchi Sprint 76, not the best frame, but nice on the road, and since then I've done a '97 Colnago, a mid 90s Fondriest, a few other things too.

You really can't go wrong. Looking forward to your build!

Thanks for all the helpful info here! Yeah I was considering an older frame too, but as itís my first foray into this kind of thing, the reassurance of a new frame that is designed to take new components is very tempting.

The Colnago Master X-lite gets tons of coverage online with reviews and journalism but Iíve seen much less on the Supercorsa and others. The Supercorsa is the most aesthetically pleasing to me and I can put a quill on it with no problems. But the Arabesque seems like a really special bike and, if you believe their ďlost lugsĒ story, wonít be around forever. I donít think Iíd have much luck buying an original Arabesque with my budget. De Rosa is up there too, though there is something lacking visually compared to the previously mentioned Colnago and Cinelli. I understand the ride is sublime though. I would buy an older De Rosa, definitely not a 2020 Nuovo Classico anyway as Iím not into their new logo I must say.

gonna check out the C&V forum too! Yummmm
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Old 10-04-19, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by nomadmax View Post
I have a pair of Colnagos, a Merckx and a pair of Guerciottis. The Merckx (not Italian) handles the best according to me. That said, an older Gilco tubed Master is a nice, predictable ride.
Wow, thatís amazing! Which Colnagoís? Apologies for trying to fit a forum-sized topic into a simple question but is there anything you can summise from the general fit of the Colnagos compared to your other bikes?
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Old 10-04-19, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jideta View Post
take a look at Casati
will do! Thanks
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Old 10-04-19, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by LewisFernandes View Post
Wow, thatís amazing! Which Colnagoís? Apologies for trying to fit a forum-sized topic into a simple question but is there anything you can summise from the general fit of the Colnagos compared to your other bikes?
The thing I like about Colnagos is they're measured from center to TOP of the top tube. No guessing about exposed seatpost or how much standover the tubing adds to the common C to C measurement. IE a 56cm Master is 56cm center to top and the top tube is 55cm C to C. I like them a lot but nothing handles like a Merckx for me.
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Old 10-04-19, 03:26 PM
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Originally Posted by LewisFernandes View Post
...Yeah I was considering an older frame too, but as itís my first foray into this kind of thing, the reassurance of a new frame that is designed to take new components is very tempting.
...
Have no fear! Sheldon Brown's website will be of great use to you. For example, cold-setting a steel frame: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

Get your rear spacing correct, then you can have a 130mm rear wheel and 9-10-11 speed wheels and cassettes.

Bottom brackets are no problem, you can have square-taper, or external cups, traditional 53/39 gearing, or compact, or mid-compact, it's all very easy.

Put whatever groupset (Shimano, Campy, SRAM) you want on an older frame. There wasn't much (if anything) wrong with older frames, and a lot of fantastic improvements with newer components. Marry the two together (vintage frame, new components) and you can have a lovely bike.

A new frame would obviously be nice, with a carbon fork. That can often be done with an older frame too, my '96 Bianchi Ti Megatube has a carbon fork, my '97 Litespeed Catalyst does also, and both with quill stems.

You're gonna love this thread:

"Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos"
Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos
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Old 10-04-19, 03:48 PM
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Pretty much any frame from the 90's, and perhaps the 80's is still very well supported today. The one caveat is Colnago liked Italian threaded bottom brackets... but those are still pretty common.

Back into the 60's, 70's and 80's, there is an issue of dropout spacing, which can be remedied, or worked around, depending on your desires.

Old French bikes can have a lot of character, but have lesser supported bottom brackets, headsets, stems, derailleur hangers, & etc. Still, there are viable ways to work with them and upgrade if you desire.

And, a few very old Raleighs are unpredictable.

If you wish to get a frame that is 10 or less years old, I'd encourage moving towards threadless 1 1/8" stems.
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Old 10-04-19, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by eric1971 View Post
can't go wrong with a master.

this!
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Old 10-04-19, 04:33 PM
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OP,
if you want to go completely custom, check into
Cicli Barco (they also build the Cinelli XCR frame)
ciclibarco | Non ti servono le ali, spingi forte sui pedali.

related: Blacksmith Cycle is a distributor with Cicli Barco
https://blacksmithcycle.com/products...d-and-xcr-disc

I have the Cinelli XCR and Casati XCR, and both are awesome bike. Modern steel frame is only about 400g heavier than a carbon one.
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Old 10-04-19, 06:06 PM
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Retro roadies- old frames with STI's or Ergos
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Old 10-04-19, 06:25 PM
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Columbus Spirit....fashioned by Canadians....Guru Sidero. Weighs in at 17 lbs 11 oz w/ SRAM Red and Mavic Ksyrium USTs. I totally love this bike.
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Old 10-04-19, 06:37 PM
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..

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Old 10-05-19, 05:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Boxkite View Post
I have become the 'caretaker' of two new Officina Battaglin framesets. I just can't say 'bought' because these framesets are really pretty! Alex Battaglin, Giovanni's son, was very pleasant and made the acquisition very easy. I am currently building one, the blue and white 'Marosticana', to ride. The other will most likely stay on a pedestal so that I can just admire it because it is serial number 2 of 38... Giovanni has number 1... and it is gorgeous!!!! I have multiple Gios framesets and they ride great! I raced on the A70 and a Compact Pro. They are really nice and ya gotta just love that blue! Zullo has some cool offerings. There are others but can't recall offhand.
Omg this is amazing! In fact, a frame just like the Marosticana is what Iím after, itís so nice! Thanks for this info!
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Old 10-05-19, 05:50 AM
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Is this the way italian frames are painted?

Not so nice to my eyes ... Is that bubbles drawn on the top tube.



Originally Posted by eric1971 View Post
Can't go wrong with a Master.

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Old 10-05-19, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by UsedToBeFaster View Post
Not so nice to my eyes ... Is that bubbles drawn on the top tube.
Yow. Look up Mapei Racing.
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Old 10-05-19, 09:46 AM
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https://officinabattaglin.com/portofino

The Battaglin portofino really caught my eyes. The cromovelato looks amazing.
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Old 10-05-19, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LewisFernandes View Post
Hi everyone! This is my first post so be gentle!

I thought Iíd register on the forum, as my plan to start building a new steel bike will provide lots of opportunities to ask for advice and then pass it on in the future!

Iím trying to sell my 54cm De Rosa SK Pininfarina Ultegra to fund a new project that I feel resonates more with who I am as a cyclist. A new modern-retro steel beauty.

Iím currently weighing up and researching bikes like the Colnago Master & Arabesque, Cinelli Supercorsa, Wilier Superleggera and maybe a De Rosa Nuovo Classico. All the new frame sets. Having trouble deciding between these frames and wondering if anyone could help decide between them. I know for example that some of them differ with threadless forks etc which will mean quill stems will be possible on some and not others (I prefer quill) and other similar characteristics which set them apart.

It does have to be Italian Iím afraid, not because I am uninitiated and trendy, but because they really get me going and I have a real passion for Italian culture and craftsmanship.

If someone can help me pick one of these frames to build, I will be so so very grateful! Also, if anyone has one of these frames, Iíd be interested to hear how they fit compared to a road bike like the one I have now.

Thanks!!
Lewis

PS- please tell me if this is the correct forum area for this post!! I was gonna post it in Classic/Vintage but itís a new bike so...
Colnago Master in a heartbeat, with the De Rosa a close second. The only thing against the Colnago (for me) is that Iíd cry like a baby the first time it got scratched - my current raw Ti ride is very much a ďtool bikeĒ, not a thing of beauty like your choices. I think youíre going to be very happy regardless of which one you choose
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Old 10-05-19, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by eric1971 View Post
Can't go wrong with a Master.
IMO the Gilco tubed models were the harshest riding steel frame I ever owned and rode.
Very pretty bikes though.

Last edited by sumgy; 10-05-19 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 10-05-19, 06:10 PM
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There is little (no) problem adding modern components to an older frame.
At worst you are stretching your rear stays by 2mm each side. So maybe your wheel changes will take a few seconds longer.
Even my old Campagnolo Recod hubs can take modern cassettes.
I am running 10 speed, but I believe if I wanted to, I could go up to 12 speed.
I think that the 11 and 12 speed shifters look wrong on the older frames and bars though.



I know you said you are keen on Italian, but if I was getting a steel frame built, it would be a Cherubim from Japan.



https://cyclingtips.com/2018/08/bike...resh-cherubim/
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Old 10-05-19, 06:33 PM
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Instead of looking at frames and picking one out based on the aesthetic opinions of others, perhaps prioritize frames that have the geometry you are looking for, and then compare those for aesthetics and tubing?

To me, that would seem like a better approach as it will get you a bike that fits how you want to ride.

Comments like 'Masters ride harsh' or 'De Rosas handle well' tells very little with regards to how the bikes will work for you.
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