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SuperSix Evo Regrets

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SuperSix Evo Regrets

Old 10-24-19, 12:22 PM
  #1  
goose70
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SuperSix Evo Regrets

This January I purchased a new Supersix Evo Ultegra "race" version (2019 model, non-aero). It was a replacement for a my old Guru Flite, which was wrecked when a car hit me. As I progressed through rehab and have begun riding outside again, doing more race-oriented training, the Evo feels less lively, more dead and not quite as aggressive in corners.

My Guru was the lower-end frame and not the super-light version. Paired with Reynolds 44 tubulars and a SRAM Force groupset, it weighed a feather under 16lbs. My Evo weighs nearly 17lbs even though the Hologram 35mm wheels are supposed to be a little lighter than the Reynolds, although the Evo comes with a power meter and is a 58 frame, whereas I opted for an undersized 56 frame for the Guru.

Of course I could compare and contrast new and old bike specs until the cows come home, but the bottom line is that I'm a bit disappointed with the Evo's race character, so far. (I raced before the accident and hope to race again.) I also appreciate that it could be me. I'm still working back into shape, I'm sure I have a lot of subconscious PTSD plus some range of motion issues. But I'd be curious to hear from other owners of recent, non-hi-mod EVO frames. Is it all in my head or does this bike ride a little dead?

Thanks.
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Old 10-24-19, 12:32 PM
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I purchased the 2018 SuperSix Evo Di2 (4K MSRP, on clearance for 3K). As of now the only bike purchase I regret. It was my first road bike purchase and it was so much faster than my Trek FXS6 hybrid bike, and the new Ultegra Di2 was so crisp...I jumped at the 4th of July clearance sale thinking that was as good as it got. I rode a Synapse and a 2019 Domane and preferred the SuperSix to those.

Just a couple of months later and I had a chance to ride a Giant TCR Advanced SL...and then I knew what a road/race bike was supposed to feel like. It did everything the SuperSix did, but better. Stiffer, better power transfer, that immediately feeling of "get up and go" when you push it, yet also more compliant and comfortable. To scratch the aero itch I also bought a Cervelo S3 on clearance. The S3 and TCR are my daily drivers when I feel the need for speed, and both have me regretting the SuperSix, sitting there on my wall mount, without wheels, just holding a Di2 drivetrain. At 0some point I may get a steel bike and move the Di2 over.

I hadn't thought about how you phrased it, the SuperSix riding a bit dead, but yeah, I think that's right. As you note, this is only for a previous year (2018) non hi-mod version. The new SuperSix is totally redesigned and this in no way applies to that bike, as I haven't ridden it.
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Old 10-24-19, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
I purchased the 2018 SuperSix Evo Di2 (4K MSRP, on clearance for 3K). As of now the only bike purchase I regret. It was my first road bike purchase and it was so much faster than my Trek FXS6 hybrid bike, and the new Ultegra Di2 was so crisp...I jumped at the 4th of July clearance sale thinking that was as good as it got. I rode a Synapse and a 2019 Domane and preferred the SuperSix to those.

Just a couple of months later and I had a chance to ride a Giant TCR Advanced SL...and then I knew what a road/race bike was supposed to feel like. It did everything the SuperSix did, but better. Stiffer, better power transfer, that immediately feeling of "get up and go" when you push it, yet also more compliant and comfortable. To scratch the aero itch I also bought a Cervelo S3 on clearance. The S3 and TCR are my daily drivers when I feel the need for speed, and both have me regretting the SuperSix, sitting there on my wall mount, without wheels, just holding a Di2 drivetrain. At 0some point I may get a steel bike and move the Di2 over.

I hadn't thought about how you phrased it, the SuperSix riding a bit dead, but yeah, I think that's right. As you note, this is only for a previous year (2018) non hi-mod version. The new SuperSix is totally redesigned and this in no way applies to that bike, as I haven't ridden it.
what kind of power are you outputting to be able to flex those oversized BB on supersix evo?
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Old 10-24-19, 04:20 PM
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CarloM
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Never claimed to be flexing the BB on the SuperSix. Just that it doesn't feel as lively to pedal as the TCR (and S3) do. It's a ride-feel type of thing vs. any mechanical difference I am placing any blame on.
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Old 10-24-19, 05:10 PM
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Have never ridden a SuperSix. But to me what this conversation does bring up is the real limitation of most "test rides." I personally just don't think I can really get a good idea of how a bike handles and rides by taking it for a spin around a couple of blocks. There's just no way to get a feel for how it corners or accelerates or climbs or descends. Just no way. I have purchased three different CF road bikes from three different "name" manufacturers over the past few years. I'm not a racer or anything, just a guy who rides a lot. What I learned from those buying experiences is that, at least for me, it's pretty much a crap shoot. Simulating what I actually do on a bike during an average week in any kind of pre-purchase checkout ride just isn't gonna happen. I'd have to borrow it for a week. So, I try to read as much as I can and talk to people I respect and then, I hope it works out. I know what I am looking for. Some purchases have worked out better than others. For example, definitely the most fun bike of these three I've recently purchased came from a manufacturer I had barely even heard of--Wilier. It cornered like an F1 car. Super-fun to ride in the city where there are lots and lots of turns. It worked out great, even though I hardly knew of Wilier. The BMC I now have I like very much. It is speedy and stable and not remotely twitchy. But it has been kinda high-maintenance so far. It is noisy (not the drivetrain). Kind of annoying. Not something I expected from a big-name frame mfr. So, I spend a lot of time chasing down these noises on my basically new bike. I'd rather do something else with that time.

Anyway, just my two cents. YMMV, of course. I just don't believe in the current paradigm, that there is a reliable, reproducible way to ensure that the bike I am about to put X thousand dollars down for is, in fact, the bike I really need. And that is a problem.
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Old 10-24-19, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
I just don't believe in the current paradigm, that there is a reliable, reproducible way to ensure that the bike I am about to put X thousand dollars down for is, in fact, the bike I really need. And that is a problem.
N+1 is all you need.
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Old 10-24-19, 05:23 PM
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I agree to a great extent @bpcyclist. Especially early-on, when I was just getting into cycling, I really didn't know what I liked, how I would be riding, etc. It was all new to me which led to some impulse purchases. Now, even though I'm just approaching the half-year mark, I've ridden over 2000 miles, a lot of it really pushing myself and varying up my rides (some intra-city, some outside on long paths with no stops, hills, flats, etc.). Now I have a very good idea of what I'm looking for in a bike.

True, a quick 10 minute ride near the LBS isn't going to simulate that, but my early impulse purchases (and one mistake) has allowed me to build relationships with a few LBSs that carry different manufacturers, and would let me use a bike for an extended time. Maybe not a week, but for a decent amount of time. And those LBSs are near where I do a lot of riding, with some challenging stretches, so I could really put a new bike through its paces.

However, the TCR and S3 has really cooled my impulse purchasing. They're both such a blast to ride, that if I even do test out a bike, it's more for curiosity rather than serious purchasing intent. Don't get me wrong, if some make/model were to knock my socks off, I would be tempted, but these two bikes...and the TCR especially...are highly rated and respected models. They may not be everything to everyone, but they tick off just about all of the boxes in terms of what I'm looking for in a ride.
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Old 10-24-19, 05:59 PM
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while bikes do have different characteristics and "feel", my objective powermeter data and actual results on say strava segments says similar bikes perform essentially the same.
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Old 10-24-19, 09:05 PM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
BMC I now have I like very much. It is speedy and stable and not remotely twitchy. But it has been kinda high-maintenance so far. It is noisy (not the drivetrain).
Don't mean to hijack the thread but I am curious as to which BMC you have? I have a '19 Roadmachine and in the 6 months since I bought it, I haven't noticed any noise problems.
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Old 10-25-19, 01:16 AM
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Originally Posted by MonsterFat View Post
Don't mean to hijack the thread but I am curious as to which BMC you have? I have a '19 Roadmachine and in the 6 months since I bought it, I haven't noticed any noise problems.
Nice bike and I am very glad you are not having any issues with it. Mine is a 2018 SLR02 bought brand-new from authorized dealer Western Bikeworks and very carefully and lovingly cared for. It's kept inside in my apartment.
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Old 10-25-19, 05:56 AM
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When I was shopping for a new bike last year, I was looking for a bike that had Di2 and disc brakes. I didn't consider the Supersix Evo because it was, by far, the cheapest bike out there that had the Di2/disc combo. I figure that it's the cheapest for a reason: the TA on the rear wheel being an obvious warning of cost cutting. What else have they skimped on that you can't see? You almost always get what you pay for.

I'll third or fourth the statements on the inadequacy of test rides. The BMC that I finally settled on felt much different after 2-3 months than it did, say, the first week I owned it. My bike shop will let you take a hour or so test ride, but that still won't let you know how the bike will ultimately feel to you. I suppose all you can do is rule out bikes that feel horrible right from the start.
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Old 10-25-19, 07:41 AM
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When I build my BMC up at first I loved it. Definitely step up from racing budget frames I had before. As season progressed I started to feel different. The front end was super twitchy. Although I did have 81mm wheels on it. After I switched to 404s it got much better. I then swapped forks, because I got tired of integrated front brake, and even thought rake is the same it changed handling just so slightly. Now I love that bike. I feel so much more confident on it through corners. I have good feel for front end.
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Old 10-25-19, 08:37 AM
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You can toss all your Cannondale Evo frames over my way. I'll be glad to take your dissatisfaction Evo bikes all day.
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Old 10-25-19, 09:15 AM
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Probably depends on your experience. Since you know what a 16lb bike feels like, the Evo naturally feels inferior. When I got my Evo it came with Aksiums and an SI crankset and actually kinda felt heavy. I swapped the wheels and crankset for hollowgram and now it’s much snappier, but still not a sub 17lb bike. I’d love to have a lighter ride but for now I’m happy with what I’ve got and plan to look more closely at different brands next time I need (lol) a new bike.
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Old 10-25-19, 10:32 AM
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What do you mean by "lively?"

Some bikes dull road noise really well, which makes for a dead feeling bike, even if it may be more stiff and agile than bikes deemed more lively.
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Old 10-25-19, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by cycledogg View Post
You can toss all your Cannondale Evo frames over my way. I'll be glad to take your dissatisfaction Evo bikes all day.
Sorry, it's currently worth more to me hung on my wall, sans wheels, acting as a holder for the Di2 drivetrain which I'll eventually move over to a steel or gravel bike at some point.

Originally Posted by arizonamed View Post
Probably depends on your experience. Since you know what a 16lb bike feels like, the Evo naturally feels inferior. When I got my Evo it came with Aksiums and an SI crankset and actually kinda felt heavy. I swapped the wheels and crankset for hollowgram and now it’s much snappier, but still not a sub 17lb bike. I’d love to have a lighter ride but for now I’m happy with what I’ve got and plan to look more closely at different brands next time I need (lol) a new bike.
This is exactly right. At 18+lbs coming from a 22lbs hybrid FX, it felt super light. But now with the TCR weighing it at 15.5 lbs with pedals...it not only feels heavy, but looks chunky. The tubes on the 2018 SuperSix Evo just look like carbon fiber versions of steel tube shapes, thick and chunky.

I agree with the comment that I got what I paid for. I paid 60% for what I paid for the TCR and the S3...and got about 60% of the quality. The only thing I'm hanging my hat on is that a full Di2 drivetrain is nearly 2K, so if I look at it that way, I only wasted 1K once I repurpose the Di2 on another frame.
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Old 10-25-19, 10:44 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
What do you mean by "lively?"

Some bikes dull road noise really well, which makes for a dead feeling bike, even if it may be more stiff and agile than bikes deemed more lively.
I think that term means different things to different people. I'll phrase it like this. It doesn't feel "fun to ride" like all of my other bikes. The TCR and S3 inspire me to go out and push hard. Even the Trek FX, once I abandoned the hardcase stock Bontrager tires and put on Gravelking SK tubeless tires have rejuvenated that bike in my arsenal. The TCR gives me the best all round combo of speed, comfort, get-up-and-go feel and fun. The S3 gives me the aero feel and just a hair more top speed (confirmed by the ride data on my Wahoo) and it's an eye-catching bike. The FX is my noodle-around-town bike which makes the roads (which are always in need of repaving) feel ultra-comfortable. Each one does something the other doesn't and fulfills my various bike needs and moods.

The SuperSix ride-feel just wasn't inspiring anymore after those other bikes (which again, in fairness, cost significantly more). It doesn't offer any aspect of a ride that is superior to my other bikes.
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Old 10-25-19, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
I think that term means different things to different people. I'll phrase it like this. It doesn't feel "fun to ride" like all of my other bikes. The TCR and S3 inspire me to go out and push hard. Even the Trek FX, once I abandoned the hardcase stock Bontrager tires and put on Gravelking SK tubeless tires have rejuvenated that bike in my arsenal. The TCR gives me the best all round combo of speed, comfort, get-up-and-go feel and fun. The S3 gives me the aero feel and just a hair more top speed (confirmed by the ride data on my Wahoo) and it's an eye-catching bike. The FX is my noodle-around-town bike which makes the roads (which are always in need of repaving) feel ultra-comfortable. Each one does something the other doesn't and fulfills my various bike needs and moods.

The SuperSix ride-feel just wasn't inspiring anymore after those other bikes (which again, in fairness, cost significantly more). It doesn't offer any aspect of a ride that is superior to my other bikes.
I wonder what percentage of people’s opinion about a certain bike just comes from their bottom brackets being out of spec and therefore misaligning the bearing or allowing flex. Bike shops will never tell you “hey buddy, sorry, but your BB has 0.5mm of parallel misalignment, 2 deg of angular misalignment, and the right cup is oval with a 0.3mm maximum difference in radius.” Even if something is “within tolerance” and “not a warranty issue”, you’ll still never know whether your bike is a good specimen or not. Part of me believes that, in a Cannondale especially, a bottom bracket tolerance issue would completely overwhelm any difference in frame layup, even between bikes of different price points.
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Old 10-25-19, 11:30 AM
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So, I have a CAAD12 and I struggled between this and an Evo. The only way I could decide was that my LBS gave me both bikes to ride, back-to-back, for a full hour. By doing an A/B comparison, repeatedly, could I tell that the CAAD was slightly sharper and snappier, and the Evo slightly softer and more refined. If I'd ridden them on different days, I would never have known the difference.
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Old 10-25-19, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Robert A View Post
So, I have a CAAD12 and I struggled between this and an Evo. The only way I could decide was that my LBS gave me both bikes to ride, back-to-back, for a full hour. By doing an A/B comparison, repeatedly, could I tell that the CAAD was slightly sharper and snappier, and the Evo slightly softer and more refined. If I'd ridden them on different days, I would never have known the difference.
This post kind of exemplifies what I was getting at. You describe the CAAD 12 as "slightly sharper and snappier," which I would think aligns with the OPs point about his old bike being livelier. The aluminum frame is going to transmit more road noise than the carbon Evo. That is one of the benefits of carbon. But really, the frames, given their near identical geometries, should handle pretty much the same.
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Old 10-25-19, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
This post kind of exemplifies what I was getting at. You describe the CAAD 12 as "slightly sharper and snappier," which I would think aligns with the OPs point about his old bike being livelier. The aluminum frame is going to transmit more road noise than the carbon Evo. That is one of the benefits of carbon. But really, the frames, given their near identical geometries, should handle pretty much the same.
What I discovered is that the differences in ride quality are about as subtle as, say, 5-10 pounds of tire pressure or a change in tires. But more importantly, I could have never figured it out any other way. I had test-ridden both bikes many different times, and all I knew is that one bike "talked" to me but I didn't know why.
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Old 10-25-19, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I wonder what percentage of people’s opinion about a certain bike just comes from their bottom brackets being out of spec and therefore misaligning the bearing or allowing flex. Bike shops will never tell you “hey buddy, sorry, but your BB has 0.5mm of parallel misalignment, 2 deg of angular misalignment, and the right cup is oval with a 0.3mm maximum difference in radius.” Even if something is “within tolerance” and “not a warranty issue”, you’ll still never know whether your bike is a good specimen or not. Part of me believes that, in a Cannondale especially, a bottom bracket tolerance issue would completely overwhelm any difference in frame layup, even between bikes of different price points.
I'm no engineer, I only watch one rant about BBs online (Hambini). So knowing nothing in terms of technical knowledge, I couldn't say if my BB was out of spec. Although it was a clearance sale (one year old model) it was new, no previous owner, and looked essentially unridden (other than test rides by customers). I know Hambini's not a fan of BB30 (though he's not a fan of Cervelo/BBright either, and my S3 knock on wood has been fantastic). If the BB tolerance was an issue with the Cannondale, and again I don't know that it was--I'm just going off of your hypothetical, then that's another reason that bike manufacturers should go back to tried and true BB technologies even if it adds a couple of hundred grams. I'm glad Trek has gone T47 with their new Domane, and if they move to that in their Madones in a few years, I will definitely add that to the list of possible bike upgrades for me in 3-5 years time (which is about how long I think it will be until the upgrade bug bites me again).
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Old 10-25-19, 11:58 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by CarloM View Post
...The tubes on the 2018 SuperSix Evo just look like carbon fiber versions of steel tube shapes, thick and chunky...
I've always thought the supersix was the best looking carbon frame, but all my bikes are made of steel and titanium so that look appeals to me.
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Old 10-25-19, 12:51 PM
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Originally Posted by kingston View Post
I've always thought the supersix was the best looking carbon frame, but all my bikes are made of steel and titanium so that look appeals to me.
What's interesting is while the aesthetic of the older 2018 SuperSix didn't appeal to me, a Colnago C64 look does. It's like, if you're going to emulate the old look of steel, go all-in. Not that I'm going to buy a C64, I just find them nice to look at.
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Old 10-25-19, 08:22 PM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Nice bike and I am very glad you are not having any issues with it. Mine is a 2018 SLR02 bought brand-new from authorized dealer Western Bikeworks and very carefully and lovingly cared for. It's kept inside in my apartment.
That's a beautiful bike. I hope you can get the noise issue sorted out and get to enjoy it!
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