Force eTap v. Ultegra Di2 v. Dura Ace
#26
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#27
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FYI...depending on where you live in the US you'll find some local LBS wrenching knowledge/experience of Di2, but it isn't that common....EPS or eTap, is 10X less common. In my state capitol, I'm probably one of 3-5 Di2 bikes in a city of 300,000.
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#28
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OP's profile says Portland...if it's Portland Oregon (I know there are other Portlands in the USA) it's a good sized city (2018 estimate of 650K) with a strong biking community (google mapped bike shops and there are quite a bit in the city proper) so if that's his Portland, he should have some pretty knowledgeable folks in the area. Portland, Maine...not sure about that.
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I can definitely hear the Ultegra Di2 drivetrain on the big ring, while on the small ring I can't hear it at all. It's not loud or bothersome, but definitely audible. The sound comes from somewhere in the rear, and if I were to guess I'd say it's the chain going over the GS cage pulleys.
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Wut. I thought AXS chains weren't compatible with anything else, due to larger diameter rollers?
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#32
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I don't think it was mentioned, but the shifting process is different between Force and Ultegra Di2. You should consider whether you like one versus the other. I liked the size of the shifters on SRAM as they are much easier to operate with thick winter gloves. However, I didn't like that you had an extra step with SRAM to shift the front and rear as you can't do them simultaneously. I had Di2 on my old bike and stayed with it on the new one. At this point I wouldn't buy a bike without electronic shifting.
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#33
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Thanks Flash. I guess the next step is to switch batteries.
#34
Destroyer of Worlds
This is something that worries me, as I've started using the UDi2...it just doesn't seem like there's much there to shift while wearing gloves. Guess that's because bikes weren't meant to ride when it's cold out? J/k. In all seriousness though, much of my riding during the winter months will be indoors, but it's a consideration for those who will be riding outside year round in a cold climate!
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About the noise, I just watched a GCN tech question and answer show with the same question. The best that they could figure was that the new shadow derailleur uses a higher tension spring on the cage which, makes sense, could cause more noise in the big ring.
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#36
Member
This is something that worries me, as I've started using the UDi2...it just doesn't seem like there's much there to shift while wearing gloves. Guess that's because bikes weren't meant to ride when it's cold out? J/k. In all seriousness though, much of my riding during the winter months will be indoors, but it's a consideration for those who will be riding outside year round in a cold climate!
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#37
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Yeah that's the one video I was thinking about but couldn't find again on short notice. I do notice that when my chain does begin to get noisy, it's nearly always in the big ring. That said, I'm rarely in the small ring (I don't have many big climbs near me) so that could play a factor.
#38
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OP's profile says Portland...if it's Portland Oregon (I know there are other Portlands in the USA) it's a good sized city (2018 estimate of 650K) with a strong biking community (google mapped bike shops and there are quite a bit in the city proper) so if that's his Portland, he should have some pretty knowledgeable folks in the area. Portland, Maine...not sure about that.
#40
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The shifting with either chain has been flawless.
The axs chain may be too narrow to work with some 11 speed chain rings.
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Huh. What's that, about 0.16mm... I suppose there could be that much slop as standard tolerance?
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
#43
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I've got around 2100 miles on a new eTap AXS (Red) bike. I was a bit apprehensive going SRAM considering I'm a long time Shimano user.
So far, the AXS has been fantastic. No issues whatsoever, the "4 batteries" for me are really two as the brifter batteries need chaining once a year. The derailleur batteries charge very quick and I get hundreds of miles between charges - I've never been even close to running low on a ride.
I got used to the different shifting method in no time and my other bike is Ultegra which I still ride also.
Having said that I'm absolutely sure I'd have loved a Di2 setup also.
So far, the AXS has been fantastic. No issues whatsoever, the "4 batteries" for me are really two as the brifter batteries need chaining once a year. The derailleur batteries charge very quick and I get hundreds of miles between charges - I've never been even close to running low on a ride.
I got used to the different shifting method in no time and my other bike is Ultegra which I still ride also.
Having said that I'm absolutely sure I'd have loved a Di2 setup also.
Charge derailleur batteries the first of the month, every month, overkill, but easy to remember
#44
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To be clear, if I thoroughly clean and degrease the chains, let dry, then apply something very viscous like Finish Line Wet Lube and wipe dry, the Di2 is nearly silent. For a while. But dust and road dirt are really attracted to that viscosity of lube and start to gunk up the chain, even if I wipe after every ride. Since it's not a one-step lube like RNR, I have to clean, degrease, and reapply.
The RNR Gold, which is a dry lube but also an all-in-one cleaner + lube, is much easier to apply but doesn't get the chain as near-silent as the wet lube. This has been true on my 2 Di2s and eTap. I'm hoping the SCC Slick will give me the performance and silence of the wet lube, with the lower maintenance associated with the RNR. If it does, it will be worth the $25.
The reasons I believe it's not an alignment or setup issue (aside from the fact that I've had two techs from two different LBSs check it out) are 1) that it's dead silent when applying the wet lube, nearly silent with RNR, and slowly gets louder as dirt accumulates...if something were amiss it would make noise all the time, and 2) shifting performance is exceptional (and yes I know how to microadjust both Di2 and eTap and have dialed it in when changing out wheels). It's a common pattern. Lube it, it gets quiet. Ride 30-50 miles, it gets louder around the 40-50 mile mark. Again, SoCal is a very dry and dusty place, so my riding conditions may be very different from yours.
What boggles my mind is how quiet my 105 stays because I don't give that the same level of care and attention. I think there may be something to the theory that chunkier/lower end drivetrains being more forgiving of dirt/grime due to not having the same tight tolerances as higher end drivetrains.
Also, not sure if linking to Weight Weenies forum (which I'm not a member of, but when I was doing a Google search on the noise I came across it) is allowed but there is a thread about Di2 noise, so it's not that I got the 2 bum sets in the lot.
The RNR Gold, which is a dry lube but also an all-in-one cleaner + lube, is much easier to apply but doesn't get the chain as near-silent as the wet lube. This has been true on my 2 Di2s and eTap. I'm hoping the SCC Slick will give me the performance and silence of the wet lube, with the lower maintenance associated with the RNR. If it does, it will be worth the $25.
The reasons I believe it's not an alignment or setup issue (aside from the fact that I've had two techs from two different LBSs check it out) are 1) that it's dead silent when applying the wet lube, nearly silent with RNR, and slowly gets louder as dirt accumulates...if something were amiss it would make noise all the time, and 2) shifting performance is exceptional (and yes I know how to microadjust both Di2 and eTap and have dialed it in when changing out wheels). It's a common pattern. Lube it, it gets quiet. Ride 30-50 miles, it gets louder around the 40-50 mile mark. Again, SoCal is a very dry and dusty place, so my riding conditions may be very different from yours.
What boggles my mind is how quiet my 105 stays because I don't give that the same level of care and attention. I think there may be something to the theory that chunkier/lower end drivetrains being more forgiving of dirt/grime due to not having the same tight tolerances as higher end drivetrains.
Also, not sure if linking to Weight Weenies forum (which I'm not a member of, but when I was doing a Google search on the noise I came across it) is allowed but there is a thread about Di2 noise, so it's not that I got the 2 bum sets in the lot.
#47
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Same here. Had the brifter batteries for two years and still Green! I charge the derailleur batteries like every 6 weeks just out of habit.
#48
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Noisy chains aren't necessarily less efficient than a quiet chain. A quiet chain can be over lubricated and add resistance.
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I have Di2 on one bike and Etap 11 on the other
No issues with either one so far. But, by far, I do like the one big paddle on each etap shifter way more than the fiddly little ones on Di2. And I think the shift logic / user interface of etap makes as much if not more sense than Di2. Granted you can't shift both front and rear at the exact same time but that just means an extra split second in order to shift both derailleurs one after the other. Also I tried syncro on my Di2 assuming it would revolutionize how I rode my bike. In the end it almost never shifted the gears as efficiently as I could myself in order to match the exact road conditions in the moment.
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