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Why not go custom?

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Why not go custom?

Old 11-27-19, 09:04 AM
  #26  
seypat
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The hands are an important contact point. We need to keep going.

https://www.inverseteams.com/en/cust...m-cycling-wear
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Old 11-27-19, 09:08 AM
  #27  
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My helmet was hot-formed to my head. Very safe, but hard to sleep in.
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Old 11-27-19, 09:49 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
My helmet was hot-formed to my head. Very safe, but hard to sleep in.
I'm sure it is. Does a pillow even help?
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Old 11-27-19, 09:55 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
I'm sure it is. Does a pillow even help?
I roll up a towel and put it under my neck.
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Old 11-27-19, 10:27 AM
  #30  
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Ha! I actually went custom on my bar tape through Busyman cycles. Albeit just for the aesthetics, but I have to admit that the real leather is quite nice and shows no signs of wear 1.5 years later!



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Old 11-27-19, 10:40 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Ha! I actually went custom on my bar tape through Busyman cycles. Albeit just for the aesthetics, but I have to admit that the real leather is quite nice and shows no signs of wear 1.5 years later!
Sharp!
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Old 11-27-19, 11:24 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by robbyville View Post
Which shoes are you using?
Riivo Custom Cycling Footwear | Riivo Custom Cycling Footwear


Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Don't stop there. Might as well get a custom saddle while you're at it.

https://www.meld3d.com/

https://gebiomized.de/en/products/cu...custom-saddle/

Those Meld saddles aren't that expensive. $250 for a saddle, $325 with carbon rails. That's right inline with most high-end saddles. If I was uncomfortable on my saddle, I'd consider it.

Last edited by topflightpro; 11-27-19 at 11:27 AM.
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Old 11-27-19, 12:27 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Because it takes a long time and may cost twice as much. The custom bike industry (think serotta) is just about dead. If you have very unusual body proportions where stock frames won't work, it might be worth considering.

That said, I buy frames only and build my bikes with every component that I prefer. Campagnolo drivetrains only. I've only paid full price for one of my frames - a special edition LOOK 585. I normally buy frames left over from the previous year or two, at far below MSRP.
It most definitely isn't just about dead but it is only for a select segment of the population. Simply check out NAHBS. There's a distinct, thriving, cool kids only custom hand made bike club that will never go away.
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Old 11-27-19, 12:42 PM
  #34  
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I'm 6'4" with a long torso and average length arms. My bike fitter told me I should get a custom bike because most frame manufacturers won't have enough top tube length. I started pricing custom frames and almost died of sticker shock.

When I crashed out my existing bike, I got a Fezzari with a 61cm frame with a 130mm stem. They do customize the fit for you and give you a free bike fitting. It's as close to a customized bike as I can afford...
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Old 11-27-19, 01:02 PM
  #35  
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I guess it makes sense for many, but makes no sense to me. If the budget is there, get something that is made specifically for you.I dunno, just makes more sense to me that way. If I had the budget for a custom house, there is no way I would buy a spec home at the same cost.
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Old 11-27-19, 02:07 PM
  #36  
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For the most part, a custom should not be purchased, based only on body measurements. A custom buyer should generally be experienced and know that off-the-shelf frames have some sort of shortcoming that can be cured with a custom. A prospective buyer may have the same measurements as a pro bike rider, but than doesn't mean that the rider also wants a 10cm or larger drop from the saddle to the bars. I see too many pictures of custom frames with stupid looking stem setups that indicate something was not done right, when the bike was built.

I have long legs and a short torso that would make it very difficult to find a stock frame, except for the fact that I can handle a 10cm drop from the saddle to the bars. I can buy a relatively small frame to get a shorter reach and not have an odd-ball stem setup. Even at age 66, I use a -17 degree stem angle, no spacer under the stem and an appropriate 110mm stem length. If I want a little less drop and reach I can easily change to a -6 degree stem. A lot of old guys want the bars up at the same height as the saddle. That's when you either get a custom with a tall head tube, or maybe use a bunch of spacers and a +17 stem. The message here is that you better know what you want before placing an order.
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Old 11-27-19, 06:56 PM
  #37  
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I've had sets of golf clubs built both ways. A set custom built by a reputable club maker after an extensive fitting. I also had sets from a top brand built on a club tour van at a tour stop after extensive fittings. The actual playability of all of the sets was/is about the same. The ones made on the van at the tour stop however, made me feel like a pro.(just a poser, though) They also gave me more golf course mojo/street cred than the custom made set.
I witnessed an unbelievable case of the placebo effect when I let a hacker take a few swings with one of those clubs. That's a story for another time, though.

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Old 11-27-19, 11:47 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
I guess it makes sense for many, but makes no sense to me. If the budget is there, get something that is made specifically for you.I dunno, just makes more sense to me that way. If I had the budget for a custom house, there is no way I would buy a spec home at the same cost.
A custom builder simply can't build a carbon bike that is the equal of a factory production bike. So you are paying more to get less from a purely performance view point.
The same would apply to Aluminium.
So you are really down to steel or Ti as your options.
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Old 11-28-19, 05:49 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
I guess it makes sense for many, but makes no sense to me. If the budget is there, get something that is made specifically for you.I dunno, just makes more sense to me that way. If I had the budget for a custom house, there is no way I would buy a spec home at the same cost.
I wonder what percentage of expensive bike owners undertake a proper fitting like Retul. This would be a more meaningful investment versus a custom build. As has been said many times already, with stem and saddle adjustments, you can dial-in a mass-produced frame to a near perfect fit provided you first select the right size and geometry frame. Cost of a proper fitting appointment is $150-$250. I assume you've done one?
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Old 11-28-19, 07:25 AM
  #40  
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Old 11-28-19, 07:36 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by SkepticalOne View Post
I wonder what percentage of expensive bike owners undertake a proper fitting like Retul. This would be a more meaningful investment versus a custom build. As has been said many times already, with stem and saddle adjustments, you can dial-in a mass-produced frame to a near perfect fit provided you first select the right size and geometry frame. Cost of a proper fitting appointment is $150-$250. I assume you've done one?
I’ve had a few fittings as my style changed, each one was great. There’s no doubt in my mind that professional fittings based upon the rider’s goals makes a ton of sense. It aided in my decision to go custom as I knew exactly what I was going to emphasize to Sacha (owner of Vanilla/Speedvagen) when doing the fitting for my bike.

i built my bike for about the same price as a top end production bike, and got something that I ride proudly almost every day, that stands as unique in every crowd. My ego is well satisfied with a bike that is well balanced and well proportioned. Win-win
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Old 11-28-19, 08:41 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
I guess it makes sense for many, but makes no sense to me. If the budget is there, get something that is made specifically for you.I dunno, just makes more sense to me that way. If I had the budget for a custom house, there is no way I would buy a spec home at the same cost.
It appears that you have a wad of cash burning a hole in your pocket. Go ahead and get yourself a custom. There's no need to come on here and have someone talk you into it or out of it. Go for it.
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Old 11-28-19, 09:29 AM
  #43  
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There was a thread in the Framebuilders subforum a year or two ago that pertains here.

The OP in that thread said that he'd always believed that any hand-built frame from a good framebuilder would be superior to any factory-built frame.

But when he asked a custom framebuilder to confirm that belief, the framebuilder disagreed. A custom hand-built frame might fit better or might be a better design for a particular purpose, he said, but the level of quality of a comparably priced modern factory-built frame would likely be at least equal to that of the hand-built frame.
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Old 11-28-19, 09:52 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
There was a thread in the Framebuilders subforum a year or two ago that pertains here.

The OP in that thread said that he'd always believed that any hand-built frame from a good framebuilder would be superior to any factory-built frame.

But when he asked a custom framebuilder to confirm that belief, the framebuilder disagreed. A custom hand-built frame might fit better or might be a better design for a particular purpose, he said, but the level of quality of a comparably priced modern factory-built frame would likely be at least equal to that of the hand-built frame.
I would certainly agree with that belief. I’ve never had a problem with any of my previous production bikes. I’m sure that all of the popular brands have very good quality control, standards, and low rates of errors. They would have to if only to avoid stupid litigation, and costly warranty claims
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Old 11-28-19, 09:58 AM
  #45  
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I looked at some custom bike websites, and as I expected, you really need a proper fitting to order a custom. Some might not build you one without their own personal fitting session. If you're located far from the builder, that's going to add more to the cost and hassle. Some sell off the shelf frames. Speedvagen's stock road frame would fit me just fine, since the geometry is about the same as many other brands, but it would be two sizes smaller than they normally recommend for my 73cm saddle height, to get the proper reach. The price for a bike with Campy Chorus 12 equipped bike would be twice what I have into my Colnago with the same components. They also claim to have up to 150 hours into the average custom bike. If that's true, then I can't imagine what it would cost.

My other hobby is hot rod building. If you can't build a car yourself, then expect to pay $65-100 per hour for shop time. If you go to one of the top builders, you better have at least $250K to get much, since parts alone will be $60-80K. I've got that much into parts, but zero labor charges. For the cost of a nice custom built hot rod, you could buy three 2020 Corvette C8, Z51 model cars ($80K each).
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Old 11-28-19, 03:17 PM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I looked at some custom bike websites, and as I expected, you really need a proper fitting to order a custom. Some might not build you one without their own personal fitting session. If you're located far from the builder, that's going to add more to the cost and hassle. Some sell off the shelf frames. Speedvagen's stock road frame would fit me just fine, since the geometry is about the same as many other brands, but it would be two sizes smaller than they normally recommend for my 73cm saddle height, to get the proper reach. The price for a bike with Campy Chorus 12 equipped bike would be twice what I have into my Colnago with the same components. They also claim to have up to 150 hours into the average custom bike. If that's true, then I can't imagine what it would cost.

My other hobby is hot rod building. If you can't build a car yourself, then expect to pay $65-100 per hour for shop time. If you go to one of the top builders, you better have at least $250K to get much, since parts alone will be $60-80K. I've got that much into parts, but zero labor charges. For the cost of a nice custom built hot rod, you could buy three 2020 Corvette C8, Z51 model cars ($80K each).
yes they put a ton of hours into each bike having watched mine from start to finish. To your point the fitting is hugely important. You can see my thread on it when I started the process with Speedvagen. When they have a commitment of about 10 bikes they will often do fitting tours. In my case I flew into Portland for my fitting with Sacha which took about 4 hours and was incredibly involved and fun on a stationary bike with tons of adjustments. A key part of their fit process is the balance of the rider between the two wheels. We must have spent 45 minutes off and on of simply rising up, standing on the pedal with hands hovering over the brake hoods and then dropping straight down into position without wobble. For me the flight and hotel added about $400 to the process.

Still and to your point of cost... I built my entire bike including carbon wheels, Dura Ace DI2, one piece bar stem combo painted to match, enve carbon seat tube, enve carbon seat post topper, internal routing with Speedvagen’s DI2 battery mount (knurled knob), basically every upgrade that I wanted so that I wouldn’t be going “what if” after the fact for a little bit lore than the same set up on a Pinarello F10 which was the top product for them of the day.

For a one of a kind, unique bike, built for my body exactly the way I wanted... a steal. Plus the F10 is already obsolete lol. I dunno it’s a vibe and a feeling that’s pure awesomeness and rides incredibly well.

Neccesary? Heck no, but a lot of fun and very rewarding in the end.
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Old 11-29-19, 06:45 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I have long legs and a short torso that would make it very difficult to find a stock frame, except for the fact that I can handle a 10cm drop from the saddle to the bars. I can buy a relatively small frame to get a shorter reach and not have an odd-ball stem setup. Even at age 66, I use a -17 degree stem angle, no spacer under the stem and an appropriate 110mm stem length.
What bike(s) are you riding? Wondering because I have fairly average leg-torso-arm length proportions (slightly to the lanky side) and on a properly fitting bike with a racy but no too aggressive geometry I have 10-11 cm of drop with a -6 degree stem and a 5 mm spacer under it. To fit the same with a slammed -17 degree stem I would need a very tall head tube indeed.

Not trying to say anything you are saying or doing is wrong, I just like to geek out about geometry and fitting.
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Old 11-29-19, 09:37 AM
  #48  
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The height difference between a -6 and -17 stem is about 2cm. These days, you can get 2cm of height from either one size larger frame or an endurance frame. I don't need either of those.

My height is 168cm and my cycling inseam is 83cm. My saddle height is 73cm. The geometry of most LOOK frames fits me the best. I came back to cycling in 2018 after 8 years off. I had both knees replaced in 2017. I kept the oldest of my LOOK frames, a KG 461 to use on a trainer for rehab. That bike does require a 10mm spacer, since it has a 120mm head tube. Newer LOOK frames have a little taller head tubes around 127mm, like my current Colnago C-RS. With a stack of 527mm, I don't use any spacer. I prefer a reach around 375mm. The Colnago has a 382mm reach, so I use a 100mm stem on it. I used a 110mm for quite awhile, but decided to move the saddle further back recently and that required a shorter stem.

I choose 48cm Colnago sloping frames or small size LOOK frames. LOOK frames will have a little steeper HTA and some resulting toe overlap.

Placing the saddle too far forward, using KOP, is usually a mistake that results in too much weight on the hands. The body should be balanced over the saddle to minimize weight on the hands. That's why a lot of riders can't tolerate a large saddle to bar drop.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 11-29-19 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 11-29-19, 05:52 PM
  #49  
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Last year, I decided to buy a high quality steel bike. Waterford Bikes makes such a bike; all of their bikes are custom.

It's probably true that if you want a good carbon frame, most people are fine with a production bike. 95% of the bikes on a showroom floor are carbon; the choices are unlimited. But I don’t think you can buy a high end steel bike off-the-rack.

Sizing is is not the only reason to go custom.
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Old 11-29-19, 06:12 PM
  #50  
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Cha-ching, it's only money

Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
From another thread where the rider had an appropriately large budget, they chose an off the shelf frame instead of custom. I don't understand why one forgoes a bike that can be built specifically for their body measurements and component likes for a bike that is not built to their body and comes pre-equipped.
___________________________________________
Should one possess (and wish to spend) the dinero on a very custom bike, there are plenty of options (as mentioned above, fewer CF makers here in the states-read about a reputable crafter in Denver)...tho a part time neighbor wanted a custom gravel grinder and was fitted at both Moots and Ericksen in town. He opted for the custom Ericksen, welded by legendary Brad Bingham (after he accepted ownership from Kent and Katie) and had it topped off with some Lauf forks, an Ericksen sweetpost, Shimano e-drivetrain & an Enve carbon wheelset (finished up a bit north of 11K, or was 13? can't recall but who cares, cuz it is only money).
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