Youtube channel Fast Fitness Tips does some decent analysis of performance ramifications of different equipment choices.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXl...sy7-pcMVWjRCfg
Originally Posted by DeathCurse7
(Post 21236900)
Alright so I am wondering how much faster I could get if I get some actual decent cycling gear. Currently I have an aluminum entry level bike (trek 1.2), alloy wheels, not the best fitting clothing, a non aero helmet, and a kinda old drive train. So if I got the top of the line equipment (carbon fiber rim, aero helmet, etc) how much faster do y'all think I can get. I am curious since I a have a hard time staying with some people even though I train more than them and also I can't descend that fast.
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Originally Posted by DeathCurse7
(Post 21236900)
Alright so I am wondering how much faster I could get if I get some actual decent cycling gear. Currently I have an aluminum entry level bike (trek 1.2), alloy wheels, not the best fitting clothing, a non aero helmet, and a kinda old drive train. So if I got the top of the line equipment (carbon fiber rim, aero helmet, etc) how much faster do y'all think I can get. I am curious since I a have a hard time staying with some people even though I train more than them and also I can't descend that fast.
Your biggest problem is you can't descend. That's where the biggest improvement is, and I'd work to improve that. You are always trying to catch the group always off the back always wasting precious energy, always riding other people's pace. Every time you lose a wheel you get stressed you burn a match depending on the gap. Caloso wrote it well:
Originally Posted by caloso
(Post 21240384)
Everyone's answering the question as if the OP were doing ITT's. And it's all well and good to get both stronger and slipperier, but riding in a pack is more about skill than strength, and the aerodynamic concerns are more about good drafting than a few watts saved with shoe covers or what have you.
My advice to the OP is to keep going to the group rides. Look for the guys who've been on the ride forever, maybe a little silver in the hair. Who may not always be at the front, but they never get dropped. Watch what they do, watch how they pedal, how they stay out of the wind, how they stay off the brakes, etc. Just like there are a lot of watts to be saved with more aero equipment, there are lots of watts to be saved by good pack skills. Trek 1.2 is a good bike. I had one and it's pretty crazy I still have a bunch of climbing PBs that I did on that bike. It has a sh**ty groupset and that can be upgraded. But you don't need to buy and expensive carbon/aero frame. You just need more experience. It will progress over time. Do a little bit of everything here you'll be going 20-22mph solo on the flats in no time. (Athens80's table is a pretty good guide. Cross anything that costs more than 500 bucks.) Going from 22 to >=24 is a whole different matter. But what's the point of going that fast solo is a whole another question. I like riding my bike fast solo because it's meditating. The physical requirements of riding well (or not get dropped) in group rides are different. Pace goes up and down a lot. Maybe you are not doing the right workouts? I have a very big diesel engine but it's meaningless in a group ride where I live. There are three back to back very hard 3-4min Vo2max efforts with little rest in between. I never made it with the A group to this day. Descending is also one of my top weaknesses like you. So, this off-season I'm working on two things; descending and get good at those hard short efforts. I can't do a lot of base training due to work and family. So I spend most the time working on the high-end and try to recover in between. Good luck. |
For the pack riding and being efficient and wise..........not just the experienced gray haired folks. Go out to a group over your head a couple times. Just rotate off the front when you get there but don't contend any sprints or stuff. Just hanging on by your fingernails in a touch of crosswind or head wind with a group that's much stronger than you can force you to get really efficient in a group real quick. It's survival. If you don't, you're dropped.
Slotting in safely and smoothly in an even smaller group of 2 or 3 where everyone is pulling way over tempo and even a good bit over threshold is a good one too. You're hurting bad but have to focus to grab that wheel and "recover". Your duo or trio is pulling at 350w and recovering at 250w+ for a couple miles, missing that wheel will cost you dropping or missing your recovery. You just can't grab that wheel back moving at 28 to 30mph after being knackered and missing it with a lapse of skill or concentration. |
I know a guy named Jesse who will see you as much speed as you want--assuming you have the $$. Yo.
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So I got this jersey today from ebay:
Louis Garneau Mondo race fit men's cycling jersey UPF 50 racing next to skinIts made me alot faster than my old jersey in a strava segment my previous PR was 25 min and today I went 23!! 2 whole minutes! I felt flying for the rest of the ride glad I made this upgrade!! Thanks guys! |
Originally Posted by DeathCurse7
(Post 21243047)
So I got this jersey today from ebay:
Louis Garneau Mondo race fit men's cycling jersey UPF 50 racing next to skinIts made me alot faster than my old jersey in a strava segment my previous PR was 25 min and today I went 23!! 2 whole minutes! I felt flying for the rest of the ride glad I made this upgrade!! Thanks guys! |
As other riders noted, position makes a difference.
Forearms level on the hoods are faster than reaching down to the drops, about 16W at 20 MPH extrapolating from wind tunnel testing at 28 MPH. It's less relaxing, but the hot ticket when you want to go fast. From https://road.cc/content/news/133598-...ker-down-hoods. Like this, but a little flatter. https://cdn.road.cc/sites/default/fi...ernational.jpg |
Originally Posted by wphamilton
(Post 21237669)
Maybe. I mean "disregard it" by "not counting brakes to the rim" because the claim is not so uncommon yet still dubious. If I don't give mention to it someone is sure to point out how wrong I am.
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buy a house at the top of a hill?
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Originally Posted by superdex
(Post 21243648)
buy a house at the top of a hill?
And are we serious about the jersey? Maybe I need to ride naked then. |
Originally Posted by zacster
(Post 21243820)
And are we serious about the jersey? Maybe I need to ride naked then.
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Originally Posted by zacster
(Post 21243820)
And are we serious about the jersey?
Maybe I need to ride naked then. Your upper arms and lower legs are pretty much cylinders, and cylinders are notoriously non-aero. It turns out that the right sleeves on your arms and the right socks on your legs can make a big difference. The right fabric is way more aero than bare arms or legs. The right socks alone can make a difference of .01 m^2 in drag area, because the legs aren't just cylinders, they're churning cylinders. That's why the Tour was measuring sock height and enforcing sock height rules this year during the TT stages. |
Originally Posted by zacster
(Post 21243820)
Having lived at the top of a hill in Seattle, the last thing I wanted to do at the end of every ride was climb it! I knew every easier route up of course, and like in SF, the street grid mostly just goes straight up and down and is mostly unrideable anyway. But every hill has its easier way up.
And are we serious about the jersey? Maybe I need to ride naked then. |
Originally Posted by RChung
(Post 21243967)
....
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I actually tried a few years ago to get a guy who XC skis to gather some data for me. I've also done some measurement for aero and rolling resistance of racing wheelchairs.
Where did you see the ski data? |
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Very cool. I'll have to get a copy of their paper.
My skier friend was also a cyclist so he knew how I was measuring CdA and Crr on bikes. We'd discussed what kinds of data he would've needed so I could do similar calculations for skis. GPS speed isn't precise enough for this type of application so we were talking about how to create a sensor that would collect speed data. The winter ended before we got our act fully together but one of the things we talked about was a series of optical sensors scrounged from a door; each time a customer walks through the door, a bell would go "ding dong" so we were talking about placing the sensors a few meters apart and recording the ding with a old scrounged up digital voice recorder. Then we would've passed the sound file through Audacity or some other freebie software to get the exact time difference. By placing the sensors a few meters apart we could have him slide through at different speeds, which improves the estimates. In the video, they used a sled and that would've been an improvement, but he wasn't going to build a sled. |
That's really cool. I love cycling and skiing for many reasons, mostly fun and an excuse to spend time outdoors, but I also enjoy the way math and physics are involved. I really wish there was a reliable way to measure power XC skiing. We cyclists have it good.
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Originally Posted by RChung
(Post 21244530)
Very cool. I'll have to get a copy of their paper.
My skier friend was also a cyclist so he knew how I was measuring CdA and Crr on bikes. We'd discussed what kinds of data he would've needed so I could do similar calculations for skis. GPS speed isn't precise enough for this type of application so we were talking about how to create a sensor that would collect speed data. The winter ended before we got our act fully together but one of the things we talked about was a series of optical sensors scrounged from a door; each time a customer walks through the door, a bell would go "ding dong" so we were talking about placing the sensors a few meters apart and recording the ding with a old scrounged up digital voice recorder. Then we would've passed the sound file through Audacity or some other freebie software to get the exact time difference. By placing the sensors a few meters apart we could have him slide through at different speeds, which improves the estimates. In the video, they used a sled and that would've been an improvement, but he wasn't going to build a sled. Maybe and maybe not, but combo of a running foot pod and running in-sole power meter in the ski boot? Just totally spitballing. |
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
(Post 21244707)
Maybe and maybe not, but combo of a running foot pod and running in-sole power meter in the ski boot?
Just totally spitballing. |
Originally Posted by blazin
(Post 21244982)
Or just a running power meter like Stryd.
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Originally Posted by badger1
(Post 21236990)
To answer your thread's title question: for all practical/legal/ethical purposes? None.
Caveat: as others have mentioned, e-bikes, PEDs, and so on will certainly make a noticeable difference. If it matters that much, go one of those routes. |
I've bought all the wife can tolerate at this point. So, it's gonna be what it's gonna be equipment wise. I'm still working on fit trying things out.
I really hope it doesn't rain Tuesday before I can get on the bike. High is 67, high humidity. A good day to freaking fly on the TT bike. Last time I did hot laps on that bike around the arena though the roadie group like to latch on when I'd go by. Freeloaders. |
Originally Posted by burnthesheep
(Post 21246188)
I've bought all the wife can tolerate at this point. So, it's gonna be what it's gonna be equipment wise. I'm still working on fit trying things out.
I really hope it doesn't rain Tuesday before I can get on the bike. High is 67, high humidity. A good day to freaking fly on the TT bike. Last time I did hot laps on that bike around the arena though the roadie group like to latch on when I'd go by. Freeloaders. |
Originally Posted by RChung
(Post 21246329)
You still using your homegrown Excel spreadsheet for VE calcs?
I try to paste in stuff in a way I avoid confirmation bias but have done a few things to test it by doing obvious changes. Sitting up vs in skis, it gets it right. Next zone 1 day I’ll do some VE on some socks I have and a Body Paint 3.3 versus my old cheapo suit. Probably too small a change for my setup, but worth a try. Socks were on sale for BF from Gaimon’s fondo shop. They have cookies on them. Whatever. I also cruise Ebay looking for that elusive used TT helmet being discarded by a sunny day triathlete that doesn’t know what’s fast. Hint, it’s a piss ugly shape. Almost phallic. |
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