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Hard time holding back

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Hard time holding back

Old 01-03-20, 08:31 AM
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Some older riders can kick it! No need for them to leave the faster group due to age. We have a college freshman all the way up to a 65 y/o guy on our A/A+ rides.

Group up by ability, not age or gender or other arbitrary measures.
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Old 01-03-20, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
This.

People who can't do 15 mph on a bike don't like to ride very long. You can go on a short scenic ride with them, and then go get your workout on afterwards.
There's some folks in our cycling club that don't break a 15mph average that can ride until I say "uncle" despite me being able to go faster. I get your meaning though, they're probably not the norm.
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Old 01-03-20, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by robbyville
Our group rides are pretty well labeled. So if our Wednesday ride is a recovery and goes 17-19mph (flat area), and I’m in the mood for a harder workout I’ll just pull longer than my fair share or pace the group. Or ride on my own.

we recently started an amazing z2 ride, of course that’s different for everyone but basically 55 miles 19-22moh average and we get a huge group every Saturday of over 40ppl easily depending on time of year. Sometimes folks will split up and go off the front we let them go stretch the group and the legs for a bit. If they try to push the group beyond the intent of the ride we politely suggest the local A or B ride which are a different work out!

Then I have a smaller group of folks that I ride with regularly. When I choose to ride with them I know exactly what I’m in for a nice pleasant 14-18mph average for about 30 miles chatting all the while and coffee afterwards, I’ll pull a bit longer than some but always stay together since that’s what we bought into and as a smaller group would suck for the less strong people to leave them in the middle of the ride.

thankfully lots of options where I am!
Was in Palm Springs about a year and a half ago with a rental bike, I wanted to join a few of those group rides but the timing didn't work out. Would love to tag along if we return in the next year or two, since we loved our trip there.
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Old 01-03-20, 09:02 AM
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This is not directed at anyone, but nothing chaps my azz more than someone blowing up a group ride that is supposed to be at an advertised pace. If I choose to ride with a slower group it is because I am planning for a Z1 or Z2. Hard rides are done solo or on group rides advertised as drop rides, not at the expense of other people who came out to ride at an advertised pace. When the shoe get's put on the other foot, the person who was blowing up a ride is the first person to tell you to slow it down when they can't hang anymore.
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Old 01-03-20, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs
This is not directed at anyone, but nothing chaps my azz more than someone blowing up a group ride that is supposed to be at an advertised pace. If I choose to ride with a slower group it is because I am planning for a Z1 or Z2. Hard rides are done solo or on group rides advertised as drop rides, not at the expense of other people who came out to ride at an advertised pace. When the shoe get's put on the other foot, the person who was blowing up a ride is the first person to tell you to slow it down when they can't hang anymore.
A good ride leader should encourage those folks to ride ahead and not chase them.
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Old 01-03-20, 09:49 AM
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This is a problem that seems to come up pretty often on BF. If you are unable to slow down to ride a social ride with your friends, at their pace, you might have a real hard think about why.
just sayin’
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Old 01-03-20, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan333SP
Was in Palm Springs about a year and a half ago with a rental bike, I wanted to join a few of those group rides but the timing didn't work out. Would love to tag along if we return in the next year or two, since we loved our trip there.
Absolutely, that would be great! We always welcome guests and also inquire as to who is knew prior to every ride. One of the reasons we actually chose this area when moving from Virginia, was because of the cycling infrastructure and club. Incredibly welcoming group, many of whom I met while on vacation the year before Our move.
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Old 01-03-20, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
A good ride leader should encourage those folks to ride ahead and not chase them.
Not about ride leader chasing a single person, it's about group mentality and it's effect on a once cohesive group that gets blown apart.
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Old 01-03-20, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jadocs
Not about ride leader chasing a single person, it's about group mentality and it's effect on a once cohesive group that gets blown apart.
Still sounds like a communication/coordination issue to me. If the ride is specified with a certain speed, and that is the expectation/desire of most of the group, perhaps the leader should do some yelling.

It's pretty normal for the groups I ride with to fragment along the route and then regroup at the stops, since they're primarily social rides. As long as everyone knows where the next stop is, they're fine with it.
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Old 01-03-20, 01:59 PM
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I admittedly do not like group rides for a few reasons. However, in your case, why not make the slower ride more difficult by riding a heavier and non-aero bike like a mountain bike? You will surely reduce your average speed by 3-4 mph and not have to stress about it. After all its all about watts with your workout.

Another thing to consider is telling the group beforehand that you will hammer up the hills and double back to rejoin them. I have used both of these strategies and they work without issues or feeling like you cheated yourself.
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Old 01-03-20, 05:31 PM
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Around here a Group Ride with a Ride Leader is lead by the Leader for the entire ride and the speed is maintained because that is the Leader's job. If someone shoots off the front anybody can join in but the leader keeps the pace. The A and A-unlimited are understood to be Drop Rides so one must be prepared with a homing device.
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Old 01-06-20, 03:35 PM
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Differing abilities

In my 40+ years riding, I’ve long realized that some riders just can’t control themselves. They have one speed and one speed only (fast). My preference is to ride with folks that have the ability to ride at variable speeds depending on the ride objective. Recovery vs race pace for example. Easier said than done. The bigger the group the harder it is. Let the pissing contest begin!
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Old 01-06-20, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rickturbo
In my 40+ years riding, I’ve long realized that some riders just can’t control themselves. They have one speed and one speed only (fast). My preference is to ride with folks that have the ability to ride at variable speeds depending on the ride objective. Recovery vs race pace for example. Easier said than done. The bigger the group the harder it is. Let the pissing contest begin!
Our club has different rides based on average speed of the rides and they are rated A, B+, B and C. Sometimes all the groups ride the same day and other times the rides are on different days of the week. The C group are mostly nice and older people that do 10mph or less for whatever the pre ride determined distance is but want to be part and participate in social events of the club.
A is the 17Mph group
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Old 01-06-20, 04:44 PM
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The world hates half-wheelers.

You chose to ride this ride. Slow down. If you can't control it then apologize to everyone on the ride and pick a different one.

I despise when people choose to come on slower rides then constantly half-wheel it. It's not that hard to go slower, or to wait. The easy ones are stopping. When you come to a crossroad take the time to fully stop. Then don't accelerate out of it like you're sprinting out of a corner in a crit. I find that is how a lot of riders will gap the ride without intending to.
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Old 01-06-20, 05:18 PM
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Is there a problem with a slower ride just letting a faster rider "go"? We've had fully-enclosed velomobiles show up to group road rides. When they decide to put the hammer down and start pulling away, nobody chases, or even really cares.

I've been guilty of burying group rides, but it's usually after somebody else brings the funk and the noise. I've successfully countered attacks, only to be told "this isn't that type of ride" after I end up stopping and waiting, which is super confusing.

I explained "guttering" to a newer (but seriously strong) road rider during a group ride last year. He tried it out when the group was strung out and ramping the pace towards a known sprint/regroup spot. He then got berated for guttering and told the usual "this isn't that type of ride."

It seems like a lot of group rides can only be as fast as the most fragile ego will allow.
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Old 01-06-20, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by travelerman
Anyone else have difficulty with slowing down the pace for a more casual ride?
Some of my riding partners - like all of us - are getting older, and I have struggled on group rides these past few years to keep from getting out ahead of them... I am BY NO MEANS a racehorse - I average from 16.5 - 17 mph on longer rides in our hilly neck-of-the-woods (my highest average last year was a century in a flatter part of the state - about 18.2 mph average).
Our local club has a NY Day ride, which I have missed the past two or three years, and I met up with some of the guys I've ridden with for years at the start; we stayed together for the first mile, but the rolling-hill nature of the terrain (and a wicked crosswind) ultimately found me dialing up the speed, to maintain momentum, and I didn't see any of them after the first five miles were past. I finished the ride a good 2 mph higher average than the guys I started out with.
I know a longer, slow ride is good for training, but I really struggle to not hammer it out, especially when the hills require a little momentum going down to keep a good pace going up.
I'm not sure there's a question here, but here are some answers off the top of my head:

1) Do your hardest workout the day before and treat this as a recovery ride
1.5) Do intervals on the way to the ride and treat this as your cool down
2) Ride your CX/MTB/FG
3) Go to the front and pull
4) Go to the back and sweep/tow dropped riders back to the group
5) Play domestique: fill your jersey pockets with extra bottles and food for your ride companions
6) Put your computer in your pocket
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Old 01-06-20, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by travelerman
Anyone else have difficulty with slowing down the pace for a more casual ride?
Some of my riding partners - like all of us - are getting older, and I have struggled on group rides these past few years to keep from getting out ahead of them... I am BY NO MEANS a racehorse - I average from 16.5 - 17 mph on longer rides in our hilly neck-of-the-woods (my highest average last year was a century in a flatter part of the state - about 18.2 mph average).

I know a longer, slow ride is good for training, but I really struggle to not hammer it out, especially when the hills require a little momentum going down to keep a good pace going up.
I have the same problem and I really want to ride with my group of friends. Our group can number as high as 15, normally 8-12. Seems about half the group is itchy to pretend we can still be fast and will jump out for a few miles. We always establish a meeting point and then regroup. And no, I am not going to find new "friends." I have other groups of "acquaintances" I can cycle with, these guys are my friends.
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Old 01-06-20, 07:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Then don't accelerate out of it like you're sprinting out of a corner in a crit. I find that is how a lot of riders will gap the ride without intending to.
This drives me NUTS! After suffering major leg injury five years ago I have no torque, especially from a standing or slow rolling stop. I stopped riding with the A & B groups of local cycling club because I got tired of always being gapped at EVERY freakin' stop sign.
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Old 01-07-20, 04:11 AM
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The irony here is that one of the weekly group rides with a smaller group with whom I am involved virtually disappeared a couple of years ago, because a couple of riders were blowing out ahead every night at a 20mph average, while a few of us were soldiering on at a 17-18mph pace (I among them), and the ride leader was recovering from health issues while also trying to stay with some newbies at an under-15mph pace... they would invariably cut the ride short every night, for fear of arriving back after dark.
Eventually, the slower riders stopped showing up completely (including the Captain), while I became the only moderately-paced rider, trying to keep of with the speed-demons, and I dropped the ride, as well. I would have kept with the ride, it being the first weekly group ride I attended faithfully after getting back into cycling, but it just sucks to be the only guy riding at a certain pace, blowing up trying to keep up with two or three others.
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Old 01-07-20, 11:49 AM
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It's all about expectations on the ride. If it is a drop ride then of course no one cares and it's everyone for themselves. When it's no-drop... Then don't crap on the etiquette. Everyone agreed to it beforehand.

The issue isn't 1 or 2 people deciding o ride faster. The issue is usually you have a good group going that people really like to ride with then someone shows up and encourages everyone to ride faster than usual. Sounds like fun at first but then the group breaks up, someone at the back gets pissed because now they're alone on streets they don't like to even ride on let alone ride on them alone. The ride comes in 1-2 riders at a time as it's just been shredded apart. A handful may now like that but it's killed the group feel for the majority of the people who ride it normally as their ride. It's how rides die over time. If you're always going to be riding alone after getting your teeth kicked in and you know it's not going to change anytime soon a lot of people will opt to leave (note - this is also what sucks about entry level racing).

So, yeah - you know the setting for the ride before it starts. Stick to it or find/start a different ride.

Anecdote - I ALWAYS saw myself as the one who is disappointed that the ride isn't what was "advertised". Nothing more depressing than thinking you get to push yourself for 2 hours with friends only to find that one person decides to play rabbit...no one can turn that down. It got to the point where I just ride alone or simply state from the start, "I'll ride sweep". The only other way I ride with my friends/team is if they call it out as a "recovery" day. "You're not supposed to be riding any faster than me remember...it's recovery day."

This year I rode a lot more than in previous years. More than once i would be leading out a ride (everyone says they want to go slow so we go at my pace until x miles in kind of thing) and eventually someone would come up and go, "Hey - you said we were taking it easy today." or some such.

Drove it home when Leah - who I work with (Cat 2 women's racer) and never ride with as she never knows how to shut it off - stopped asking if I wanted to spin with her on rest days. "Why not?" "You go too f'n hard. Last time I was riding mid to high tempo the whole time." "Good...I was riding nearly all out. Your rest days are usually still too fast for me." "Not anymore apparently."

Anymore we just ride. Everyone I ride with knows I suck. When I'm getting pushed too hard and others are just rolling and talking I just usually say, "I can't keep this up for 2 hours today guys. That's fine though. I know the route. Feel free to keep it rolling without me. If you want to ride with me though I am going to need to dial it back." Their choice.
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