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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

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Old 01-10-20, 06:30 PM
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kokomo61
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In the "Well, that's something" department.

Dropped my 2008 Giant OCR C2 triple off for it's annual check-up. Bike is in good shape. Hubs are good. Re-did the bottom bracket and upgraded to an Ultegra crankset last year, headset is 2 year old, and chain / cassette can get through the upcoming season before I swap them out. I upgraded the brakes to an Ultegra set this go-round.

Got a call that the bike was ready to pick up....and just as I was ready to leave the house, I got another call that as they were getting it ready to go, the tech dropped a heavy wrench, and it hit the seat stay, cracking it. Their assessment is that it will need a frame replacement (and I probably agree)...and they've said they'll make it right, and transfer all my hardware over. All good, since I'm not on that bike again until March.

The question is - what will make it right? Giant no longer makes the OCR, and I think the TCR is a more aggressive frame. I'm almost 59, and have a 4-level spinal fusion, so I really liked the more relaxed OCR geometry. I think the Defy is close in geometry, but I don't know if it'll take my triple drivetrain. As far as repairing the current frame, I'm iffy on that - I've gone down a couple times on this bike without any apparent damage, but it's coming up on 12 years old, and there may be something in the frame waiting for the wrong bump.

https://www.outsideonline.com/231181...dents-lawsuits

What would you suggest?
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Old 01-10-20, 07:43 PM
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What current component group ?. If 9 or 10 spd. is it worth transferring ?. Maybe work out a deal with the shop for a good price on a new bike that has a gravel component group. With an 11 spd. cassette and a 30/46 31/46, 32/48 crank you can probably get near enough the range to what the triple has now. Or even a 105 group with one of these cranks. That’ll give you some options on a similar frame.
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Old 01-10-20, 07:59 PM
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I agree with Steve B. Use the situation to upgrade at minimal cost.
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Old 01-10-20, 08:06 PM
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If it is a pretty simple localized crack, then there are a couple of places that should be able to repair the frame for less than the cost of a good used frame.

Ruckus Composites
Calfee

Reports are that both companies do professional work.
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Old 01-10-20, 08:08 PM
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I would get together with the shop owner/manager and have a sensible discussion regarding what they have in mind for making it right, and what your reservations, thoughts, ideas and suggestions are. From my point of view, you are in the power seat. If they really want to make it right, it has to be right in your mind.
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Old 01-10-20, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I would get together with the shop owner/manager and have a sensible discussion regarding what they have in mind for making it right, and what your reservations, thoughts, ideas and suggestions are. From my point of view, you are in the power seat. If they really want to make it right, it has to be right in your mind.
That's probably the right way to go. Out of the gate, they suggested switching to a TCR frame, and all the components would move over....but I'm concerned about riding a racing geometry, since I'm almost 59, and have a 4-level spinal fusion from 2004. The OCR was a great geometry for me. The Defy would be a comparable bike, as is the Specialized Roubaix. My shifters, crankset, brakes, pedals and derailleurs are all Ultegra, so a 'new' bike is a fairly pricey proposition on either end of the transaction.

AFA repairing it, I haven't seen the bike yet, but from the tech's description, the rear seat stay is broken in two. I'd be wary about trying to repair a 12-year old mid-market CF frame, so at a minimum, I need to replace the frame. The Defy (Giant's current endurance bike) is all disc now, so I'd have to upgrade my wheels, too. (and I just bought an Ultegra rim brakeset that got installed on the bike before the dropped wrench).

I'll swing by the shop to see the bike, and ask what they'd propose to make it right - I don't think the TCR is a fit - not because that's not a fair fix...it's literally that it won't fit, or my already dicey back issues would be made worse trying to fit me to the bike.
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Old 01-10-20, 09:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
What current component group ?. If 9 or 10 spd. is it worth transferring ?. Maybe work out a deal with the shop for a good price on a new bike that has a gravel component group. With an 11 spd. cassette and a 30/46 31/46, 32/48 crank you can probably get near enough the range to what the triple has now. Or even a 105 group with one of these cranks. That’ll give you some options on a similar frame.
It's a 10-speed Ultegra Triple. The Cassette/Chain are in good condition, and the crankset is about 18 months old (I upgraded the old FSA crankset with probably one of the last Ultegra triples out there). I'm not wedded to a triple, but I do need to have enough gear for long climbs.
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Old 01-11-20, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by kokomo61 View Post
It's a 10-speed Ultegra Triple. The Cassette/Chain are in good condition, and the crankset is about 18 months old (I upgraded the old FSA crankset with probably one of the last Ultegra triples out there). I'm not wedded to a triple, but I do need to have enough gear for long climbs.
I’d do a gear chart as minimum to see if anything new on an 11 spd group gets you the gearing and range. 10spd Ultegra is great stuff, but also the most likely to have issues with parts. 9 is actually easier. Thus your question becomes do you stay wedded to a group that is already obsolete (even though it works fine), or spend some money to move on.

Doing a gear chart will tell you where you have duplicate gearing on the 10 spd. system and how that looks compared to an 11spd. GRX type group. Possibly your wheels would be re-usable, so if they give you a new frame, using old wheels and you can leverage into a new group, it might be worthwhile,
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Old 01-11-20, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by delbiker1 View Post
I would get together with the shop owner/manager and have a sensible discussion regarding what they have in mind for making it right, and what your reservations, thoughts, ideas and suggestions are. From my point of view, you are in the power seat. If they really want to make it right, it has to be right in your mind.
In the driver's seat? Accidents happen and that is why the dealer is insured. You don't try to take advantage of a bad situation. The suggestion of trying to work out a deal on a new Giant which is a far superior bike anyway us the best idea.
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Old 01-11-20, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kokomo61 View Post
It's a 10-speed Ultegra Triple. The Cassette/Chain are in good condition, and the crankset is about 18 months old (I upgraded the old FSA crankset with probably one of the last Ultegra triples out there). I'm not wedded to a triple, but I do need to have enough gear for long climbs.
The new 11 speed Ultegra groups can take either a 32 or 34 tooth. I forget which. The older 10 speed groups were for close ratios and weren't that hot since for the normal rider since they were far too close for him. You always found yourself shifting two or three gears. You might as well have kept an 8 speed.

With the wide ratio 11 speed and a normal 50/34 compact crank you get the same sort of shifting pattern you have before Lance demanded an extra 9th speed for hard climbs. The 34 - 32 is about the best ratios you can use and is about the same as the old triple small ring and the 28 normal large cog. If you can't turn that it is your power or you are attempting to go far too fast and need to go down a cog. (lower ratio). I am most definitely NOT a fan of single 12 speeds since they throw the chain off of the ring with regularity. If you must have a cage to keep the chain on the crank ring you might as well have two rings.
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Old 01-11-20, 02:50 PM
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What other lines does the shop carry? If it's not a warranty thing being handled by Giant, maybe you can find something more suitable among their other offerings.
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Old 01-11-20, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
The new 11 speed Ultegra groups can take either a 32 or 34 tooth. I forget which. The older 10 speed groups were for close ratios and weren't that hot since for the normal rider since they were far too close for him. You always found yourself shifting two or three gears. You might as well have kept an 8 speed.

With the wide ratio 11 speed and a normal 50/34 compact crank you get the same sort of shifting pattern you have before Lance demanded an extra 9th speed for hard climbs. The 34 - 32 is about the best ratios you can use and is about the same as the old triple small ring and the 28 normal large cog. If you can't turn that it is your power or you are attempting to go far too fast and need to go down a cog. (lower ratio). I am most definitely NOT a fan of single 12 speeds since they throw the chain off of the ring with regularity. If you must have a cage to keep the chain on the crank ring you might as well have two rings.
Yep, it's an interesting conundrum. Talked to the shop today - we agreed that a TCR frame wouldn't work for me, and that they're going to try and source a Defy rim-brake frame, since that's the current version of the OCR geometry. If they can find one, that's pretty much a straight swap of all the components. If they can't, I think it makes sense to work out a deal on a more modern Defy or Roubaix. I don't NEED a triple, and a compact double will likely give me all the gear I need for climbing, as well as be easier to setup / maintain.

Same for disc brakes. If they can't find a compatible frame, I'm OK with the move to discs...we just have to figure out what is a reasonable 'upgrade' deal is. I just picked up the Ultegra brakeset for this install, and the crankset is recent as well. Cassette and chain are from early last season. Since I didn't ride a lot, they're in good shape - so everything's in good shape, it's just not part of a rideable bike.
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Old 01-11-20, 03:37 PM
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Looking through the Giant archives, they went from rim to disc in 2015, so they'd be looking for a NOS 2014 composite frame.

2014 Giant Defy models

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Old 01-11-20, 04:10 PM
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Not sure where you are going with this, but if you do go with a new bike, the new 105 is probably an upgrade over older Ultegra in terms of shifting performance. Just my take and YMMV, of course.
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Old 01-11-20, 04:34 PM
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Originally Posted by bpcyclist View Post
Not sure where you are going with this, but if you do go with a new bike, the new 105 is probably an upgrade over older Ultegra in terms of shifting performance. Just my take and YMMV, of course.
Agree with this. Especially front shifting which got really good with the 5800 and more recent groups
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Old 01-11-20, 05:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Agree with this. Especially front shifting which got really good with the 5800 and more recent groups
If they can't replace the frame with a compatible one, then we're into replacement territory, so I'd be looking at a Defy or Roubaix (they also carry Specialized). I'd want the best components I could get, but a current 105 compact setup is in the 'already pretty good' category. I should know in a couple days if they can source a frame. I'll likely ask them what it costs for the frame and labor to move everything, and ask - 'before you order it, what about this?' if the cost is comparable, I'd be better off upgrading.
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Old 01-13-20, 01:05 PM
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Got a call from the bike shop. They're going to move me to a brand new Defy Advanced 2 - it's 105, but as pointed out above, the 105 is better than the older generation Ultegra I had. They have a couple calls to make with Giant on how to deal with the frame failure, but in the end, I ride out with a new bike. That's one hell of a deal for me. I move to disc brakes and a modern compact double.....

They also said I can take off all the parts I want to sell, but I may only keep the saddle, pedals, clip-on bar and Garmin stuff. The rest can be donated to a local bike repair program.
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Old 01-13-20, 01:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kokomo61 View Post
Got a call from the bike shop. They're going to move me to a brand new Defy Advanced 2 - it's 105, but as pointed out above, the 105 is better than the older generation Ultegra I had. They have a couple calls to make with Giant on how to deal with the frame failure, but in the end, I ride out with a new bike. That's one hell of a deal for me. I move to disc brakes and a modern compact double.....

They also said I can take off all the parts I want to sell, but I may only keep the saddle, pedals, clip-on bar and Garmin stuff. The rest can be donated to a local bike repair program.
FWIW, I can't tell the difference in shifting between my r7000 105 groupset and my r8000 Ultegra groupset, performance really is the same, which is to say fantastic for both. As mentioned, with a 50-34 up front and 11-34 out back, you should have no problems climbing. Glad they're making it right for you, the new Defys are really nice.
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Old 01-13-20, 01:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
FWIW, I can't tell the difference in shifting between my r7000 105 groupset and my r8000 Ultegra groupset, performance really is the same, which is to say fantastic for both. As mentioned, with a 50-34 up front and 11-34 out back, you should have no problems climbing. Glad they're making it right for you, the new Defys are really nice.
This is great for me. I was planning on upgrading bikes this year or next, and moving the OCR C2 to 'crappy day' status. I don't bike commute anymore (live 1 mile from work), so I think I'm going to de-commute the Cross Pro and make it the foul weather bike. My daughter said, "Make sure and give them a good review" - Once this is done, they're going to get the full (positive) firepower of my social media platform.
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Old 01-13-20, 01:52 PM
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dropped a "wrench" on a seat stay & broke it in two?
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Old 01-13-20, 02:00 PM
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Sounds like a great bike and deal for you.
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Old 01-13-20, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by kokomo61 View Post
Got a call from the bike shop. They're going to move me to a brand new Defy Advanced 2 - it's 105, but as pointed out above, the 105 is better than the older generation Ultegra I had. They have a couple calls to make with Giant on how to deal with the frame failure, but in the end, I ride out with a new bike. That's one hell of a deal for me. I move to disc brakes and a modern compact double.....

They also said I can take off all the parts I want to sell, but I may only keep the saddle, pedals, clip-on bar and Garmin stuff. The rest can be donated to a local bike repair program.
You could not have asked for a better outcome. Both the shop as well as Giant are really going above and beyond. That shop would be getting all my business after.
Nice bike as well
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Old 01-13-20, 04:35 PM
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Very glad it is working out well for you. Kudos to the LBS seeing to it that you are satisfied with the outcome. I, also, would make the effort to get the word out on the terrific response from the LBS.
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Old 01-13-20, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by rumrunn6 View Post
dropped a "wrench" on a seat stay & broke it in two?
I don't think it was broken in two, but was hard enough to crack the seat stay.
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Old 01-13-20, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by RiceAWay View Post
In the driver's seat? Accidents happen and that is why the dealer is insured. You don't try to take advantage of a bad situation. The suggestion of trying to work out a deal on a new Giant which is a far superior bike anyway us the best idea.
When I got the call from the tech, I could tell he was petrified, and in this area, I'm sure there are people who would DEMAND some unreasonable solution until they got what they wanted. From the first call, my approach was, "Well, that sucks, but let's see what our options are." The only thing I told them was that a TCX frame wouldn't work because of the type of riding I do. I expected that they'd find a 2014 NOS Defy frame, which would have worked, but if one was hard to find, that might take time, and there would be several hours of labor in trying to move things over, plus resolving any incompatible parts. I wasn't expecting them to offer a replacement bike, but that may be a cost-effective solution for the shop. Regardless, it seems to be a great solution for me.
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