Bike Forums - Lightweight Steel Frames?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by mstateglfr (Post 21352743)

The brand or model of tubing is not at all as important as frame geometry and the butting of that tubing. example- Reynolds 853 comes in many different butting profiles and can be just as 'heavy' as generic taiwan 4130. 853 DZB is marketed for use in gravel/MTB/ATB bikes and is not a lightweight, because it isnt designed to be.
I mention this because it is mostly meaningless to look for frames based on just the tubing sticker.

I built a frame using Columbus Zona tubing, which is mid-upper level tubing and it came in at about 200g more than a higher level of tubing. Even then, Zona comes in multiple butting profiles and had I used the more aggressive butting, it would have been lighter(and flex a bit more, but who knows if i could tell or not).

Columbus Zona, Columbus Life, Columbus Life, Reynolds 853, Reynolds 725, Tange Prestige Japan, Kaisei, Variwall Thermlx - all these are quality and one isnt 'better' than the other. They are great for different applications and needs. They also come in a variety of diameters and butting, which greatly affects the fell depending on the rider.

Look at Breadwinner https://breadwinnercycles.com/product-category/bikes/ and Rodriqgez https://www.rodbikes.com/profiles/profiles.php to get general ideas on qualty frames that are well designed and well built. There are honestly dozens of great builders in the US and these are just 5% of whats out there and quality. Handmade obviously costs more than generic off the shelf. Look into Gunnar too- as they make quality custom frames for good prices.
Also check out Black Mountain Cycles https://blackmtncycles.com/frames/road-frames/ and Ritchey for some quality generic tube frames. The tubing isnt listed(Black Mountain is generic and Ritchey is in house/proprietary), but it is very much quality. Both frames use heat treated tubing and the Black Mountain is 8/5/8 butting while the Ritchey is not listed, but is similar and possibly thinner(guess based on weight). Something to note on both of these- the head tubes are for 1 1/8 steerers. This is significantly different from current trends of 44mm head tubes for massive front end stiffness. A steel road frame with a 1 1/8 steerer will be plenty stiff and track well when riding for any amateur/enthusiast. Somehow, pros excelled on even thinner head tubes too, so they clearly can be fine on them too. A smaller diameter head tube will allow for a bit more compliance(less harsh) on the front end. Also note- the Ritchey comes with a carbon fork, but the Black Mountain has a steel fork. You could use a Ritchey WCS fork https://us.ritcheylogic.com/us_en/wcs-carbon-road-fork or a Whiskey No7+ fprk https://whiskyparts.co/forks/no7_rd_...mid_reach_fork as both have similar/same rake and length as the stock steel fork, but will be over 1 pound lighter. Its a great way to get a really good frameset for under $1000.

There are production bikes with 853 like the Motobecane mentioned already Save Up To 60% Off Pro Level Steel Road Bikes FREE SHIP 48 STATES ON ALL BICYCLES FREE SHIP* Motobecane Gran Premio Elite New Shimano 22 Speed 5800 / 105 + Shimano Wheelsets Reynolds High Grade Steel Road Bikes as well as many British brands. But many/most will be disc brake since thats trendy.

Having the lightest steel frame is like having being the lightest heavyweight boxer. Its nearly meaningless. All my drop bar bikes are steel(853 gravel, Black Mountain MC for touring/commute, Columbus Zona road bike, Columbus Tenax road bike) and weigh different amounts, but the moving weight for all is within 1% of each other since that is bike weight + rider weight + gear(water, wedge bag, etc). If a bike is 20.5# or 19.5#, it rides the exact same on flat and down hills, and the 1# isnt noticed when climbing since its barely measurable. More important is frame geometry and comfort- does the geometry match what you want in a road bike?- then itll feel great. Does the bike have compliance where you want it?- then itll feel great.

More weight can be dropped due to components than can be dropped due to frame tubing choice. Keep that in mind. Zona tubing that is 7/5/7 and Spirit tubing that is 6/4/6 is just not much different in weight.
Also worth noting- as a tube increases in diameter, it becomes exponentially stiffer. So that tube can also become thinner which then offsets the stiffness and makes it lightweight and 'springy'.

tldr- dont chase grams. All those tube models/sets I mention are quality and what should be focused on is geometry. Are the chainstays the length range you want? Is the frame's trail the style you want? Can it fit the tire size you want? That stuff is what I think should be focused on.

Interesting info - I recently built up a Black Mountain Road+. Pretty happy with it so far, but the fork was 2.8 pounds uncut. Those carbon forks seem like they could be an interesting option somewhere down the line. Do you feel either is a good fit for the Road+? I assume since you said you own a MCD you were referencing forks for the MCD.

Crust recently released the canti Lightning Bolt:- https://crustbikes.com/products/lightning-bolt-5/ which has a weight limit.

Designed around a 650b x 48; which is about 700x32.

Looking forward to the BQ review on that Crust.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty2k1 (Post 21354575)

I have the older rim brake MC.

As for the Carbon fork swap on yours, the biggest issue would be a difference in trail.
Your fork has 60mm of offset and the Whiskey fork that would work on your frame has 45mm of offset.
https://whiskyparts.co/forks/no.9-cx-disc-12-straight

So with 650b 47mm tires, the bike has 48mm of trail in it's current setup.
If you swap to the Carbon fork, it would jump to 64mm of trail, assuming the same wheels and tires.

That's a big difference in steering response. Itll slow the steering down.
everyone has different preferences. Some are good with 64mm and some want faster feeling steering / less input needed to turn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangerineowl (Post 21355009)

Crust recently released the canti Lightning Bolt:- https://crustbikes.com/products/lightning-bolt-5/ which has a weight limit.

Designed around a 650b x 48; which is about 700x32.

They talk about frame flex. I had a Landshark years ago made from Tange Prestige and it was way too flexy for me. Then I was 220# and I figured it would break if I kept riding it. I sold it to a skinny friend.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tangerineowl (Post 21355009)

Crust recently released the canti Lightning Bolt:- https://crustbikes.com/products/lightning-bolt-5/ which has a weight limit.

Designed around a 650b x 48; which is about 700x32.

A Taiwan built canti brake steel frame and fork for $1150?
Seems about $300-500 higher than similar comparables.
if its BQ tubing, or tubing comparable to BQ's, it's 7/4/7 heat treated tubing. So what, like $60 more than 7/5/7 columbus tubing and $100 more than 8/5/8 tubing?

Interesting offering.

Get a ti frame, have it painted, slap a Columbus sticker on it and tell everyone it's steel...
Wanting a light steel bike is like wanting the "dancer" you marry after knowing her for 3 weeks to be faithful, nothing but $$$ and disappointment... :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelreason (Post 21355705)

I don't agree, necessarily ... but that was funny enough that I had to respond somehow. :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sy Reene (Post 21355602)

Always liked the look of the Condor lineup..eg
stainless
https://www.condorcycles.com/collect...nless-frameset
or not
https://www.condorcycles.com/collect...ciaio-frameset

Ditto. Condors look tantalizing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by zatopek (Post 21356243)

Ditto. Condors look tantalizing.

They're beautiful! Almost 5 grand for a frameset though.

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0cf8743381.jpg
My Waterford RS33 was custom built in 2008 with air hardened True Temper S3 lightweight steel and front carbon fork. Still rides like a dream and handles like a race car.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheelreason (Post 21355705)

I guess that depends on what you consider "light" to be and how light you need a bike to be. My Guru Sidero (which I have posted here) weighs approx. 17 lb 10 oz w/Ksyrium Elite USTs and SRAM Red. That works for me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce19 (Post 21353481)

https://wabicycles.com/pages/tubing-info

"Columbus Spirit Niobium: similar in weight to the 953, the Spirit is one of the lightest steel tubes sets available"

I have to take issue with their marketing there. Columbus's Niobium alloy is the natural competitor to Reynolds 853. Both are about the same strength and are non-stainless HSLA alloys. The Columbus product that's closest to 953 is XCr which is stainless, super strong and expensive.

Those stainless alloys are actually stronger than you really need and they can't make them as thin as their strength would theoretically justify for practical reasons. So they're pretty cool but you will be saving as much weight by not painting them as the thinner gauges available are giving you.

Anything from Reynolds or Columbus is a quality tube and will make a great bike, as will double-butted standard 4130 or 25CrMo4 (which is exactly what Cromor, Zona and 525 are).

You can have a nice and affordable frame at Marinoni with the option of custom géométrie and custom paint. I have the Piuma but i change the standard headtube for the 44mm. Here the link of my bike (approximately 18 lbs) on PedalRoom : Marinoni Piuma

Cycles Marinoni

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...7709cb6e44.png

Quote:

Originally Posted by dan911 (Post 21356782)

That's beautiful. What components?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruce19 (Post 21356812)

That's beautiful. What components?

Thanks !

Components : Dura-Ace R9100 Groupset + pedals, 4iiii powermeter, Deda Zero100 42 cm handlebar / 110mm Deda Zero100 Stem, Fizik Antares R1 Open / Deda Superleggero RS seatpost and Prime Black Edition 50mm with Coninental GP5000 tubeless.

I may opt for a Soma ES frame and add a carbon fork to it... mstateglfr

There seem to be some decent deals on them now and they weight about 4ish pounds. Only thing is that I would need long reach brake calipers.

Appreciate everyone's input.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 996 (Post 21358641)

I like the TRP 957. Ive read they are stiffer than the Tektro and Shimano long reach options, but havent tried those before. Velo Orange has a well regarded long reach caliper too.
The TRP 957s are relatively light, well finished, have a lot or adjustment built in. Note that the cutout on the top of the arm in the linked picture doesnt seem to exist on ones that are for sale. Its all over the internet for some reason.
Below is a pic of a front caliper mounted.
https://www.probikekit.com/bicycle-b...B&gclsrc=aw.ds

https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...00aedc51d9.jpg

The Jamis Quest. Your choice of 4130, Reynolds 520, or Reynolds 631. The Reynolds 631 Jamis Quest Elite comes in at 20 pounds they say.

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/questseries.html

Quote:

Originally Posted by 996 (Post 21352247)

Hi All,

In the market for a lightweight steel road frame. Trying to keep it non-disc, and a threaded BB. Been reading around and it seems like Reynolds 853 Steel is pretty light, but we can get lighter too.

Anyone have any lightweight road bikes/frames they recommend?

Best,
996

Try a custom Columbus XCr frame built by Cicli Barco. It will probably be the lightest steel frame you can get. One big difference would be whether you get a steel fork or a carbon fork. Barco has both. They have a very sexy stainless steel fork with a carbon steerer tube for lightness (+ 250 euro). They just finished making a frame for me which will be shipped tomorrow. Gianluca Barco is quite fluent in English and very responsive by email. Here is their basic all stainless bike. There are many options. For a lugged frame the cost is a little higher, but they offer about 6 different fork crown styles as well as lots of lug options.

Here is a review of the frame by an English bike magazine. https://www.cyclist.co.uk/reviews/66...rco-xcr-review

TIG
Custom Road geometry
Barco stainless steel dropouts QR with interchangeable hanger
Interchangeable or braze on front derailleur
External derailleur cable routing with Wing support
Brake cable on top tube, external or internal (no extra price)
Seat clamp bolt integrated on seat stays
BSA bottom bracket
1 1/8” head tube
31,6mm or 27,2mm seat post
Stainless steel fork with curved blades
Engravings: BB, dropouts, fork crown, fork ends
Barco classic head badge
Italian badge on top tube (optional)
Customer name plate on top tube (optional)
Mirror or brushed finish included
One color paintjob or sandblasted decals included
Price: 2.620,00€ (no VAT included) (about $3,000)

My frame has every possible option and came in at 3,320 Euros including Chris King headset and shipping.
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...a64a54cf4.jpeg
Brushed XCr stainless steel TIG welded
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...1ae0d7a6e.jpeg
Stainless fork with carbon tube
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5b94eaaf6.jpeg
Direct mount brakes
https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...3d1d8993a.jpeg
Stainless nameplate

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...fb7dc589c0.png
Barco stainless fork with carbon tube

Quote:

Originally Posted by 996 (Post 21358641)

A friend has a Soma road bike and he says it rides as nice as his Moots. High praise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jicafold (Post 21359173)

The Jamis Quest. Your choice of 4130, Reynolds 520, or Reynolds 631. The Reynolds 631 Jamis Quest Elite comes in at 20 pounds they say.

https://www.jamisbikes.com/usa/questseries.html

True- there is a lot of value for the money with Jamis and the Quest line.
$1750 for full 105 drivetrain, Ritchey cockpit and wheels, and full carbon fork.

The geometry in the largest size is fantastic too- nice and neutral...except for the insane 66.5mm BB drop. What?!? Its a road bike- why is there such little drop? Thatd be interesting to understand.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johnk3 (Post 21359233)

...My frame has every possible option and came in at 3,320 Euros including Chris King headset and shipping...

Please tell me you're building this up with SR.