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Bike fit question with pics.

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Bike fit question with pics.

Old 07-06-05, 07:54 PM
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Smoothie104
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Bike fit question with pics.

Im tired of riding my standard road bike in TT's and getting blown out, especially after doing the math and seeing that 1mph more would put me top 5-10. I'm building a TT bike on the cheap, well, somewhat cheap.

I'll be running a Renn 575 Disc rear, and a 58mm carbon front rim. I bought 105 cranks, RD and brakes from Nashbar with a 20% coupon, the frame set me back $100.00 plus $65.00 for a new easton EC70 fork.
The rest of the small stuff lying around the shop etc.. Between the Disc rear and the aero bars, I should be able to get my 1mph easy, but I have a question about the bars. Are those fore arm pads really for your forearms? they feel better right under my elbow, in a straight line from where the weight is etc...

It feels really nice to be stretched out, and not catch a lot of wind in the chest. I don't think I want to get any lower however. It looks fairly aero in the pics, I could make my back flatter, but the way it is in the pics is the way it is naturally, I have 6.5 litre lungs. The bars are adjustable every way you could imagine, I may push them out forward a bit more, and get my shoulders a bit lower???

I will have to tweak the seat a bit more forward maybe get a different post, I have yet to really ride this thing as I built it yesterday. Seat height is dead on from my road set up, is that the norm, or do you guys make changes.

Any advice is appreciated.. especially from the TT'rs like skydive69 etc...





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Old 07-06-05, 08:22 PM
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looks like a good position to me. a couple of thoughts:

1. hard to tell, but it looks like your saddle is about as far forward on the rails as it can be. if so, good. if not, try and get it further forward. remember that as it goes forward, it also has to go up. yes, i'm aware the UCI puts limits on how far forward it can go. but i'm not making money at this, so to heck with it. and you can slide it forward for triathlons and duathlons
2. the line from your hips to your pedal spindle looks really close to parallel to your upper arm. this is good for comfort.
3. your arms are on the pads just fine, i think. if that's where you are comfortable, that's where they should be. doesn't matter what part of the forearm
4. don't overdo the 'comfortable' thing. this ain't about comfort; it's about going like h*ll. you already know that. after you get the saddle forward, sit on the nose of it. and be sure to raise it for that as well. this ain't gonna be comfortable. it should be bearable. if it's so uncomfortable that you can't remain in your aero tuck for the length of the TT race you're preparing for, then it's too extreme. you want 6 hours worth of comfortable on your road bike; it's not necessary on this
5. don't let aerodynamics be a panacea. the best TT specialists on earth don't do the most aero things possible. a big example - you have to breathe. wind tunnel tests have shown that the most aero position for the arms is to pull them together as tightly as possible from the hands to the elbows. and that's how things were a while ago. but people found out that widening your arms to open your breathing, though not quite as aero, still resulted in a faster time due to the increased oxygen. look at the tour riders; most of them, when down in the 'bars, have their elbows just about as wide as their shoulders. the point is - the goal isn't to be aerodynamic, it's to be faster. once you get the machine built, take it out and play with it, fidgeting things around to see what gets you in a position you can remain in, and what seems to get you faster, even if your common sense tells you it's got to create more drag.
6. take your new machine and go kill everybody in sight
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Old 07-06-05, 08:34 PM
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Good stuff, thanks... Im going to cut those bars down too, I don't like the shifters so high, Id rather have them where I dont have to move to reach them.


http://www.trigearreview.com/images/...0probiscus.jpg


the base bar slides forward and backward along the stem, as do the aerobars, the aeros also slide back and forth in their mount, and rotate. Its pretty cool

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Old 07-06-05, 08:56 PM
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Aero is important, but you gotta be able to put the power down! Make sure you aren't closing off your hip angle too much. If you over-extend your hip-flexors, you're eliminating a key muscle group. It's all well and good if you can put out 300 watts for an hour on your road bike and you cut your drag by 20% with your TT bike, but if you can only put down 260 watts when you switch to the TT bike......
You'd be surprised what a few millimeters will do. EDIT: From looking at your pictures, I would almost ASSURE you you're WAY too low in front. It may be more aero, but you'll be slower than you could be. Unless you're flexible as hell, raise that stem!

It's okay to compromise a few watts for some better aero, but DON'T overdo it.

The way I kept this from happening is as so:
1) Strip naked
2) Place dots with a marker on your hip bone, knee bone (side thingy), ankle bone, and shoulder protrusion.
3) Put road bike with existing proper fit on trainer.
4) Pedal and have someone take pictures (or set camera to do it) at bottom, top, 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock positions
5) Repeat with TT bike

Line up all your angles. When they match, you've duplicated your road fit on your TT bike. From there you can fine tune smidgen by smidgen.

Links:
http://michiganoutlaws.com/bikefit.htm
http://damonrinard.com/aero/
http://www.timetrial.org

HTH,
Cole

Last edited by fujiacerider; 07-06-05 at 09:02 PM.
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Old 07-06-05, 09:09 PM
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Question.....If all the angles are the same, and my shoulders are in the same place, why even bother with a TT bike? I could just slap a disc on my s-works.
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Old 07-06-05, 09:14 PM
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Are those ac 420 wheels? I just ordered a set of standard build...how do you like them?
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Old 07-06-05, 09:16 PM
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Eh, knew I'd forgotten something!
You're basically trying to rotate yourself around your hips on your TT bike. You end up being in pretty much the same position (angle-wise) as in the drops on your S-Works, however you're rotated foward.
Example: You take a picture of you on your bike and print it out. Cut you out along your lines. Then stick your picture to a corkboard with a pin right through your hip. Now push your head down, thus raising your butt a bit, pushing your legs back, and lowering your shoulders. Duplicate this in real life on your new TT bike. Voila, you're more aero and you haven't lost a watt!

Cole
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Old 07-06-05, 09:18 PM
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i see.....Hence the forward adjustment and raising of the seat....



sparknote, no.. They are American Classic 58mm Carbons Tubulars. Its basically a zipp 404 rim, with an AC micro hub. stiff, aero, and less than 1300 grams. I've got Tufo S-3 lites on there at about 210grams each. The wheels and tires together weigh 1715 grams, or about 1 lb less than a set of Ksyrium SL's with clinchers.
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Old 07-06-05, 09:48 PM
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Hey A-hole, thats not a gut or man boobs, its the front of my rib cage, I've got a Forced Vital Capacity of 6.5 liters. Ahhh, F-it what do you know, your're in junior high. Stay in school, and get back to us when your 34 years old, working 50 hours a week, making an income in the top 1% of the country, winning races on 150 miles a week training, planning a family etc. Lets see you pull it off.

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Old 07-06-05, 09:55 PM
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Eww, we don't need to hear about your sexlife

Oh wait.....lung capacity.....gotcha....

Jokes aside, yar, you're too stretched out I reckon. I think you'd have trouble maintaining that position for long before you find yourself struggling to sit on the seat.

Did you see the guys in the tour yesterday? I mean, ignoring Zabriskie for a second, many guys' knees are quite close to their elbows in full flight. I'm guessing the key is to replicate your normal position but in a rotated forward and down position to flatten your back which is where 60% of your aerodynamics is anyway.
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Old 07-06-05, 10:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Thylacine
Eww, we don't need to hear about your sexlife

Oh wait.....lung capacity.....gotcha....

Jokes aside, yar, you're too stretched out I reckon. I think you'd have trouble maintaining that position for long before you find yourself struggling to sit on the seat.

Did you see the guys in the tour yesterday? I mean, ignoring Zabriskie for a second, many guys' knees are quite close to their elbows in full flight. I'm guessing the key is to replicate your normal position but in a rotated forward and down position to flatten your back which is where 60% of your aerodynamics is anyway.
Yeah, you're right about the elbows, duly noted...
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Old 07-06-05, 10:02 PM
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Originally Posted by shiftinjon
I thought it was how many pastries he could cram down his gullet.
Damn, those do look good.
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Old 07-06-05, 10:04 PM
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mmm.....pastries

I personally prefer the burnt, flattened ones myself....

....coz they're more aero and have more carbon!

boom-boom!
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Old 07-07-05, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Smoothie104
Hey A-hole, thats not a gut or man boobs, its the front of my rib cage, I've got a Forced Vital Capacity of 6.5 liters. Ahhh, F-it what do you know, your're in junior high. Stay in school, and get back to us when your 34 years old, working 50 hours a week, making an income in the top 1% of the country, winning races on 150 miles a week training, planning a family etc. Lets see you pull it off.
If you're making in the top 1% in the country, why build a TT bike on the cheap? Have one custom made, and fitted. Not trying to make trouble, just saying that's what I'd do. I'm in the bottom slice of the income pie, tho.
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Old 07-07-05, 09:16 AM
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Becuase Im only going to use it 3 times a year, unless I really like it, then I'll just get a better frame. 105 cranks and RD arent going to slow me down, I've put the money where it matters, wheels. plus I want to retire at 45, but I'm not on pace anymore, lol
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Old 07-07-05, 09:24 AM
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speaking of professional fittings, does anyone know of any tri/TT specific bike shops in New England that would actually know how to fit you properly to a tri/TT bike?
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Old 07-07-05, 09:24 AM
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Smoothie the power vrs aero is the most important. I did a power fit with my coach for my TT bike and we ended up raising my position quite a bit. I started out with a position simular to yours. We settled on a position that was a compramise between super aero and the most power.

We did this on a ergometer and it took several hours, to be honest without this type of fitting it's all guess work.
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Old 07-07-05, 09:24 AM
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I read someplace, maybe from arnie baker that your ears and elbows should line up.. I think you can get more forward.

I have those same bars, I chopped mine... This pic is my 'on the cheap' TT bike. Well, it started out as on the cheap.. I think the frame was the only cheap part. Its got dura-ace 10 der's and shifters, ultegra ISIS BB, Dura-Ace brakes, ritchey post, bars, cranks, cane creek levers, and an old seat.. and of course hed3's

good luck with your rig-
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Old 07-07-05, 09:29 AM
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Wicked looking, for sure, Ritchey makes great stuff. I'm going to chop my bars as well. Do you have the saddle tilted down on your road bike too?
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Old 07-07-05, 09:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bonnet
I read someplace, maybe from arnie baker that your ears and elbows should line up.. I think you can get more forward.

I have those same bars, I chopped mine... This pic is my 'on the cheap' TT bike. Well, it started out as on the cheap.. I think the frame was the only cheap part. Its got dura-ace 10 der's and shifters, ultegra ISIS BB, Dura-Ace brakes, ritchey post, bars, cranks, cane creek levers, and an old seat.. and of course hed3's

good luck with your rig-
Jim
Wow, That bike looks extremely ineffecient right now, hopefully that will change when you get ready to ride it.

Pedals will be?
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Old 07-07-05, 09:40 AM
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This pic was taken right after I finished building it.

I took it to the shop to get the steer tube cut, adjusted the saddle more level, tightened everything down and started riding it.

That was about 1wk ago. Last night at the local Wednesday night TT I shaved 2 minutes off my best 10mile time. So it helps{the bike that is} Well, so did the lack of WIND and the mindset that Im aero

I did put some speedplay pedals on her too btw..
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Old 07-07-05, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by DRLski
speaking of professional fittings, does anyone know of any tri/TT specific bike shops in New England that would actually know how to fit you properly to a tri/TT bike?
Pretty sure fast splits of Newton can do it, but I'd say Belmont Wheelworks would be your best bet.
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Old 07-07-05, 10:37 AM
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Smoothie,

I think you have a good setup, if you can ride like that for an hour. I just did a 40K and had not done one in a long time or on my current bike. I just went the clip-on route. I think a low-budget dedicated TT bike would be much better. I could not get low enough on my regular bike with the clip-ons.



In fact, I get lower in the drops than on the aero bars. After looking at my position, I replace the stem with a shorter and lower stem which got me down about another inch, but still too high.
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Old 07-07-05, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Jim Bonnet
I took it to the shop to get the steer tube cut,
Aww! I was gonna suggest a chin rest on the top of that steerer.

Nice looking bike man.
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Old 07-07-05, 10:52 AM
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I went the 'low buget' route myself. I took my Kg381 and added Deda TT bars and Hed S bend extensions. I'm run my Reynolds Alta's for now as they are pretty aero. I plan on doing the Texas State TT and TTT championships in Houston this August (I can't wait for Houston in August it's going to be sooooo pleasant). If a) I like it and b) it's something I think I can do well at I'm going to buy a dedicated TT frame and disc rear wheel.
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