Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Is there much speed difference between men/women?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Is there much speed difference between men/women?

Old 03-26-20, 03:31 PM
  #26  
datlas 
Beyond Bogus
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 31,622

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Mentioned: 445 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11518 Post(s)
Liked 1,045 Times in 598 Posts
Short answer to OP question: yes.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28 View Post
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 03-26-20, 09:57 PM
  #27  
guadzilla
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 3,830

Bikes: Venge, R5, Shiv, Lynskey and a few more

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 206 Post(s)
Liked 235 Times in 111 Posts
Originally Posted by mercator View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and conclude that you don't do much skiing or swimming...
He is saying all sports require skills and it is NOT as if swimming and XC dont require technique. In other words, he is agreeing that swimming and XC also require technique. You have misread his statement (i skimmed through it and did the same thing - then had to stop and read carefully) or quoted the wrong person.

Back to the topic at hand - even with squash, which requires a lot of motor skills and coordination, there was a fairly sizeable gap between the performance of men and women. I was a used to play for of the top college teams in the country, which also had some international level women players. And this had nothing to do with talent or effort - a simple case of biology -male muscles are more capable of the short explosive power needed to hit that ball really hard, and also that initial burst to get to where the ball is.

Last edited by guadzilla; 03-26-20 at 10:01 PM.
guadzilla is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 06:56 AM
  #28  
mercator
In the wind
 
mercator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Calgary AB
Posts: 1,238

Bikes: Giant TCR Advanced Team, Lemond Buenos Aires, Giant TCX, Miyata 1000LT

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 144 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 12 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Maybe this is all some misunderstanding, and if so .... let's just drop it and forget it.
Appears I misread your comment - my apologies, early morning commenting should probably wait till the coffee kicks in.
mercator is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 10:00 AM
  #29  
berner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bristol, R. I.
Posts: 4,056

Bikes: Specialized Secteur, old Peugeot

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 530 Post(s)
Liked 306 Times in 194 Posts
Surak may be right in the observation that in endurance events women may have an edge. Right now one of the best ultra marathoners of any sex is Courtney DauWaulter. One event of 250 miles or so she finished about 8 hours ahead of the runner up, enough time to shower, have a bite to eat and a nap. The link is to a race up and down Mt. Blanc.
berner is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 10:57 AM
  #30  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,266
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 191 Posts
Originally Posted by berner View Post
Surak may be right in the observation that in endurance events women may have an edge.
There's not really good evidence for this. While women do occasionally win ultra-endurance stuff, these races are fairly chaotic and often have very thin fields. When the pointy end of both the men's and women's fields show up in droves, the fastest man nearly always finishes well ahead of the fastest woman.

In your video example of UTMB 2019, Courtney DauWaulter finished 21st overall, about 20% slower than the men's winner. Using it as an example actually weakens your argument, because that's a far larger difference than you usually see between male and female runners even in shorter events. For example, at the 2016 Summer Olympics, Elaine Thompson's winning 200m was about 10% slower than Usain Bolt's winning 200m. Or at the 2019 Boston Marathon, Worknesh Degefa's winning time was about 11% slower than Lawrence Cherono's winning time.

Last edited by HTupolev; 03-27-20 at 11:02 AM.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 11:11 AM
  #31  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12,069

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5775 Post(s)
Liked 416 Times in 277 Posts
Originally Posted by mercator View Post
Appears I misread your comment - my apologies, early morning commenting should probably wait till the coffee kicks in.
yeah ... clear writing takes skill too , ... I obviously need practice. but skiing is more fun.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 12:12 PM
  #32  
ChrisAlbertson
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Southern California
Posts: 151

Bikes: 70's frame, newer parts

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 23 Posts
Here is why I posted this question...

I was in a left turn lane waiting for the light and this other rider is there, says hello. The left turn leads to a hill, maybe a 5% or 6% grade. I'm 62 years old, need to lose some weight and just got back to cycling after December 2019. This other rider was maybe 30 with very athletic build on a high-end carbon bike. The light changes and he was off and was up the hill at close to the 25 MPH speed limit. I do that hill at 10 MPH. I'm obviously not fast. Then I get home some time later and Stava tells be I would be the 7th fastest woman up that hill this year.

My guess was that (1) there are not many women cyclists and (2) few women bother to use Stava. But there were are least a couple hundred of each gender.

Then I notice that in the last few weeks only two female cyclists have pasted me on the road and I see exactly zero women my age riding actual road bikes. But younger men routinely pass on my left.

I don't know if it makes sense to compare top racers as these people are very a-typical of the population in general. But on the other hand, they show what people could do if they were to train
ChrisAlbertson is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 05:46 PM
  #33  
Drew Eckhardt 
Senior Member
 
Drew Eckhardt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Mountain View, CA USA and Golden, CO USA
Posts: 6,031

Bikes: 97 Litespeed, 50-39-30x13-26 10 cogs, Campagnolo Ultrashift, retroreflective rims on SON28/PowerTap hubs

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 405 Post(s)
Liked 140 Times in 106 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
I'm curious, as someone asked me and I had no objective data to answer with. With road bikes, on average, are men much faster than women or are they close. I know with running the finish times are not so far apart. With other sports, the difference is great. I used to race Olympic style flat water kayaks and even a rank amateur like me could keep pace with elite women, at least for a while. My guess is that there is not much difference with road bikes. Does anyone know some real numbers from racing or perhaps ecperience with large group rides

Obviously many women are much faster than some me but I'm looking for trends and averages.
We're faster at high levels of competition, although individual variation matters more for recreational cyclists.

Men have a 10% higher power to weight ratio and are larger. Better power to weight makes us significantly faster in the mountains where speed is proportional to it, better power to drag helps us on flat ground.
Drew Eckhardt is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 08:54 PM
  #34  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 11,001

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 180 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3491 Post(s)
Liked 973 Times in 649 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
... I get home some time later and Stava tells be I would be the 7th fastest woman up that hill this year.

My guess was that (1) there are not many women cyclists and (2) few women bother to use Stava. But there were are least a couple hundred of each gender...
While I'm tickled to have cracked the top ten on a few Strava segments, I realize it's absurd and mostly an indication of a statistically insignificant sampling group.

Many of the local KOMs are owned by a guy who's chronologically in his 50s but gifted with the physical ability of a 30something. To my knowledge he's never raced, and only recently began Zwifting. He's not even particularly competitive. Riding fast, consistently, seems almost effortless for him. Although I'm sure he works hard at it.

So while it was amusing to see my name a notch or two below his, my times were never anywhere close to his under any conditions. That means there's plenty of room for genuinely fit and competitive riders -- men and women -- to filter in there are gradually knock me down to the middle of the pack where I belong.

And, sure 'nuff, as more cyclists have tackled those routes, I've dropped from 2nd to 6th to 9th to off the top ten. As it should be. I already know from riding with consistently strong riders my age that I'm struggling to keep up with them. Two or three local pro women have nudged me out of 2nd on some fairly tough climbing segments -- short, steep sprint-climbs or slightly longer time-trial inclines.

To me, that just underscores that biology is terribly unfair to women in the physical realm. Those women have the competitive athletic drive that I lost years ago. Meanwhile, I'm sitting on a still reasonably good stockpile of lifelong male biological privilege and wasting my time whining about not feeling quite chipper enough to crawl out of bed early in the morning for a bike ride. If I was a women I'd be pissed off all the time at guys like me.

And anytime I do manage to crack a top ten, I'll go join a fast local club ride just to remind myself of reality -- which happens very quickly when I see them getting smaller and smaller on climbs.

It's good motivation, but also a reminder that if a 60+ year old cyclist has a KOM/QOM or top ten, either that segment isn't ridden by many people, or we're freaks of nature, or we're doping. And I've discovered from trying every legally available supplement I can get my grubby mitts on, they only help a tiny fraction. If I ever do crack a hotly contested top ten or KOM, you can bet I managed to talk a doctor into putting me on PEDs.
canklecat is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 09:33 PM
  #35  
Kimmo 
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 8,565

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 790 Post(s)
Liked 184 Times in 146 Posts
Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
There's no substitute for a lifetime of inhabiting a body flooded with testosterone during formative years
It's not just that, it's having testosterone in your system. I saw a doco about a M2F mechanic who suddenly struggled to fit a gearbox after hormone therapy.
Kimmo is offline  
Old 03-27-20, 10:32 PM
  #36  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 13,366
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 891 Post(s)
Liked 513 Times in 326 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
Here is why I posted this question...

I was in a left turn lane waiting for the light and this other rider is there, says hello. The left turn leads to a hill, maybe a 5% or 6% grade. I'm 62 years old, need to lose some weight and just got back to cycling after December 2019. This other rider was maybe 30 with very athletic build on a high-end carbon bike. The light changes and he was off and was up the hill at close to the 25 MPH speed limit. I do that hill at 10 MPH. I'm obviously not fast. Then I get home some time later and Stava tells be I would be the 7th fastest woman up that hill this year.

My guess was that (1) there are not many women cyclists and (2) few women bother to use Stava. But there were are least a couple hundred of each gender.

Then I notice that in the last few weeks only two female cyclists have pasted me on the road and I see exactly zero women my age riding actual road bikes. But younger men routinely pass on my left.

I don't know if it makes sense to compare top racers as these people are very a-typical of the population in general. But on the other hand, they show what people could do if they were to train
I've been a member of a road club for 31 years and I think when it comes to recreational cyclists the fastest women will be faster than most of the men. I don't mean in a sprint but on a long climbing ride. You've heard of a ride called Breathless Agony? I did it and a woman finished 14th overall out of 400. This was 12,000 feet of climbing in 75 miles which was timed. I know, it's not a race but it is timed.
A woman friend of mine who is a great climber and also 46 years old finished 36th out of 100 in a field of mostly men with lots of racers, cat 1s, ex pros, etc. This was run as a race and had 9000 feet in 75 miles..
A woman pro who is also a climbing specialist came and rode with our club in the Santa Monicas and she dropped everyone on the climbs including some pretty good climbers.
Of course at the elite level men have an advantage but if your a recreational riding man and you ride where there are lots of good riders you will get used to being dropped by women on long climbs.
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:
Old 03-28-20, 11:24 AM
  #37  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 28,709

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 335 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12019 Post(s)
Liked 1,814 Times in 973 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
I was in a left turn lane waiting for the light and this other rider is there, says hello. The left turn leads to a hill, maybe a 5% or 6% grade. .. The light changes and he was off and was up the hill at close to the 25 MPH speed limit.
Was he wearing a jersey with lots of stripes and cookies?
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 03-30-20, 05:29 PM
  #38  
sfrider
Oil it!
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 1,396
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 93 Post(s)
Liked 63 Times in 37 Posts
You do have to be careful when comparing performance between populations of very different sizes. The performance distribution is gaussian, meaning it's a bell curve, and when you increase the population size the extreme outliers change. If you take the top 2000 in a large enough population they will ALL be outliers on their curve, while in a small population the same 2000 reaches deep into the bulk of the bell itself. Ask yourself how the best african american NHL hockey players compare to the best Canadians or Russians? Or cyclists who are first generation scandinavian immigrants? In the latter, because the population is so small you'd likely find the top performers aren't competitive with the outliers of a larger body. Or you might find one. Maybe two. But most likely none, ever, because the larger body is the superposition of 100s of smaller ones and the top outliers are cherry picks. When looking for biological sex differences you need to start by normalizing for distribution, and that means making statistical observations, not how well the best woman performs again P/1/2 males (neither of which is a representative selection, it's outliers vs outliers, and the larger the population, the further out its outliers will be statistically). Any inherent physiological differences would manifest as differences in curve shape; for example one might have a higher mean but a smaller standard deviation, meaning on average it performs better, but the outliers are pulled in closer to the mean. (In other words, there is a performance 'wall'.) Note that the entire population includes cyclists with no interest in racing, who might ride 200 miles per week just because they enjoy it. And, hence, many cyclists have very good endurance, but not a whole lot of power since their riding/training lacks in intensity. In fact, I'd go out on a limb and guess that the overwhelming majority of cyclists have no interest in racing, that it tends to be something new cyclists do and either they like it and continue, or don't and become like most and simply ride for the enjoyment of it for its own sake. If we hypothesize that women are less competitive, then they would obvious skew away from the racing scene.

Last edited by sfrider; 03-30-20 at 05:35 PM.
sfrider is offline  
Likes For sfrider:
Old 03-30-20, 05:47 PM
  #39  
ChrisAlbertson
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Southern California
Posts: 151

Bikes: 70's frame, newer parts

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
You do have to be careful when comparing performance between populations of very different sizes. The performance distribution is gaussian, meaning it's a bell curve, and when you increase the population size the extreme outliers change.....
Yes exactly. I was hoping that you were going to remind me of a valid statical method. It has been a few decades since I took those classes. The real problem is getting the data.

Back to theory. I know the men have a higher percent muscule mass but much of it is in the upper body where it is not so useful for climbs. Women being lighter just might gain some advantage on climbs but again any woman who is climbing a big hill on a road bike is a 6-sigma outlier almost by definition.

Is there a good way to answer the question that does not compare the few outliers? Maybe not. But I always hate to say "It is impossible because I can't figure out how."
ChrisAlbertson is offline  
Old 04-03-20, 01:10 PM
  #40  
banerjek
Portland Fred
 
banerjek's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 11,535

Bikes: Custom Winter, Challenge Seiran SL, Fuji Team Pro, Cattrike Road/Velokit, РOS hybrid

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 227 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 43 Times in 28 Posts
There is far more variation among men and among women than there is between men and women in general.

The variation between women and men is a big deal once you get past a certain point, but the further down you go, the less difference it makes.

A few years ago, I intentionally slowed down -- for rec riding, who cares if you're a few minutes slower even if that translates to a distance of a mile or more? Kinda nice to not be in pain all the time
banerjek is offline  
Likes For banerjek:
Old 04-03-20, 01:53 PM
  #41  
Bah Humbug
runner
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 14,847

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4826 Post(s)
Liked 747 Times in 452 Posts
Originally Posted by banerjek View Post
A few years ago, I intentionally slowed down -- for rec riding, who cares if you're a few minutes slower even if that translates to a distance of a mile or more? Kinda nice to not be in pain all the time
I'm sorry; I don't think we can be friends anymore.

Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 04-03-20, 02:29 PM
  #42  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 900

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 542 Post(s)
Liked 292 Times in 155 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
.. any woman who is climbing a big hill on a road bike is a 6-sigma outlier almost by definition.
That would mean there aren't even a hundred women in the U.S. who climb big hills on their bike, which is clearly not the case.
tomato coupe is offline  
Old 04-04-20, 03:29 PM
  #43  
RiceAWay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 216
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 31 Posts
Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
At the elite and pro levels, yes. At my level, no.
That is the best possible answer Lots of women pass me up. And in a rather large group there was a father who brought his 8 year old twins along on HEAVY bikes and they would drop everyone on the climbs. My daughter finished third in the Jr. Nationals one year and there was no way I could keep up with her when she was in that shape and I was pretty fast then.
RiceAWay is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 01:22 AM
  #44  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by alo View Post
I have not collected statistics, but I think you will find on short sprint events, the difference does not seem a lot, but on log distance, there is a significant distance.
Really? One big difference between males and females is muscle so in sprints the relative distance seems like it should be large given that muscles are the key determinant. Whereas it is known that the longer the duration, the closer women can get (there is a debate that they are actually better at ultra-distance stuff, though personally I doubt that, more that they are so close there and the events aren't normed that it may look like it).
ZHVelo is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 01:36 AM
  #45  
ZHVelo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 195
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 130 Post(s)
Liked 54 Times in 33 Posts
Originally Posted by aplcr0331 View Post
Comparing track and field events provide stark examples. The event are the same length, they’re a level playing field. Even though male and female don't race against each other you can compare their times for a given distance for example;

100 Meter Dash

Women's Olympic Record: 10.49 by Flo-Jo (Likely a doper).

HIGH SCHOOL Boys Record: 10.00 by Trentavis Friday.

10,000 Meter Race

Women's World Record: 29:17:45 by Almaz Ayana.

HIGH SCHOOL Boys Record: 28:32:07 by Rudy Chapa.

High school boys are faster than Olympic level female athletes. The 5-10th place finishers from the Women's Olympic 100 meter dash in 2016 would not even be fast to enough QUALIFY for US high school boys national level competitions.

The rims in the NBA are the same height as the rims in the WBNA. You can see and hear the difference between male and female dunks. The majority of the NBA can dunk. The vast majority of females cannot dunk. A good travel AAU basketball team made up of high school boys would decimate an All-Star WNBA team....and it would not be close. In the same way women's Olympic soccer teams (sorry Futbol) lose to high school aged boys in friendly matches.

My favorite cycling moment over the last few years was the 2018 La Course. Watch the interview at the finish from Cecilie Uttrup Ludwig to see how amazing Cycling is for Women. No matter who’s faster, her passion made lots of fans of the sport.
Very interesting post and I love the last comment - yes, it doesn't matter at all who is faster. I am German, we love Biathlon, and there is no difference in popularity, at times where they are more successful, the women are even more popular. When you have woman race woman, you don't see live or on TV that they are slower than the men, only if they race directly against the men would you see it. You don't notice it, simple as that, all you see is the best of the best (of half the population) fight it out. Why on Earth would anyone think "nah, ain't gonna watch this, a high school boy could beat them". No, as you say, if you see your favourite athlete do well and show passion and determination that is all that is needed.
ZHVelo is offline  
Likes For ZHVelo:
Old 04-07-20, 12:04 PM
  #46  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 1,690

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 769 Post(s)
Liked 466 Times in 317 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
I'm curious, as someone asked me and I had no objective data to answer with. With road bikes, on average, are men much faster than women or are they close. I know with running the finish times are not so far apart. With other sports, the difference is great. I used to race Olympic style flat water kayaks and even a rank amateur like me could keep pace with elite women, at least for a while. My guess is that there is not much difference with road bikes. Does anyone know some real numbers from racing or perhaps ecperience with large group rides

Obviously many women are much faster than some me but I'm looking for trends and averages.
I didn't cruise the other responses, but the w/kg values and the wattage values are both astronomically stronger for the men. The women are incredible athletes, but the physiology and body composition is just different. The heart and lungs and legs are just physically bigger in the men to begin with. Meaning.......yes, the speeds are vastly different.

I saw it quoted somewhere the GCN host Emma Pooley had a threshold of about 5.2 w/kg. For guys that might get you into the low level P/1/2 races as cannon fodder. IF you were working with a upper 60's low 70's kilograms weight. But not on a lady's body weight for the 5.2w/kg, no way Jose'. 260w threshold won't get you anywhere.

Size overall matters on flatter/TT stuff. So the difference there is great. The women's ITT Yorkshire winner was about 26.5mph on a course overall uphill at 0.44%. The men's winner, Dennis, was nearly 30mph. I can't describe how much even just 1mph difference is. Different courses, but still. 3.5mph!!!! That's colossal. Our local ITT scene typically has Cat 3 guys who are good hobbyist TT riders above 26.5mph on hillier terrain than Yorkshire ITT was. 26.5mph on that terrain the women's ITT was on is about what my goal is in ITT in the long run. About 300w an hour.

Also, back to that 5.2w/kg. The only hope of getting away from a mix of Cat 2/3/4 weeknight world's dudes with 5.2w/kg (at a lady's weight) is going to be uphill if you're a lady. The gross power of that only being 260w is a big disadvantage if comparing to men.

We've had some super impressive ladies show up to the world's ride. Nobody ever picks on them nor do they treat them easier. They're welcomed, encouraged, and bring lots of fun. They usually can hang in the bunch great, but not really any attacks or solos that would stick. They try great though! We've got two hills where there's usually a pretty tough attack and I'm usually around 500 to 600+ for a minute at that time to pull a gap. We usually regroup a mile later to keep the fun together and the ladies are usually about a minute back after a mile or so attack from a couple guys.
burnthesheep is offline  
Likes For burnthesheep:
Old 04-07-20, 01:32 PM
  #47  
ChrisAlbertson
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Southern California
Posts: 151

Bikes: 70's frame, newer parts

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 83 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 32 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I didn't cruise the other responses, but the w/kg values and the wattage values are both astronomically stronger for the men. The women are incredible athletes, but the physiology and body composition is just different. The heart and lungs and legs are just physically bigger in the men to begin with. Meaning.......yes, the speeds are vastly different.

I saw it quoted somewhere the GCN host Emma Pooley had a threshold of about 5.2 w/kg. For guys that might get you into the low level P/1/2 races as cannon fodder. ....

I've now realized that asking this question is exactly like asking if men are taller than women. How would we answer this? Obviously the average heights are different but does it make sense to compare only male and female elite basketball players?

That 5.2W/Kg woman would sure as anything beat me. I am male, over 60, 10 pounds overweight and don't seriously train. I think I might be 2W/Kg if averaged over a 20 to 30 mile ride. But even so on local roads, I've only been passed by a female cyclist a very few times.

So the question now is how to even ask the question. It seems wrong to only compare those at the top as that leaves out 99% of both groups. My experience of not being pasted on the road by many women is not right either because there are so few of them on the road.

Another well-known observation is asking people to estimate the average hight of people. We always guess too high because we notice taller people more than shorter ones. We always remember the exceptions and this skews our perception.
ChrisAlbertson is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 02:18 PM
  #48  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 20,973
Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11534 Post(s)
Liked 2,739 Times in 1,582 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
But I always hate to say "It is impossible because I can't figure out how."
I'm going to use this at work today. 🙂
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 04-07-20, 02:20 PM
  #49  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,266
Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1471 Post(s)
Liked 335 Times in 191 Posts
Originally Posted by ChrisAlbertson View Post
I've now realized that asking this question is exactly like asking if men are taller than women. How would we answer this? Obviously the average heights are different but does it make sense to compare only male and female elite basketball players?
You don't have to. You can compare performances across any percentile. Obviously you'll have to adjust things somewhat based on what the different active percentiles represent in terms of the total population (i.e. female cyclists are sampled more sparsely from the population of all women than male cyclists are from the population of all men), but it doesn't make the comparison impossible.

That 5.2W/Kg woman would sure as anything beat me. I am male, over 60, 10 pounds overweight and don't seriously train. I think I might be 2W/Kg if averaged over a 20 to 30 mile ride. But even so on local roads, I've only been passed by a female cyclist a very few times.

So the question now is how to even ask the question.

How would you perform against a similar-age woman, who is similarly overweight and who also doesn't seriously train, who compares similarly to other women in that boat as you do to other men in your boat?
HTupolev is offline  
Likes For HTupolev:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.