Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Addiction LXXVIII

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Addiction LXXVIII

Old 06-06-20, 01:32 PM
  #8501  
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Liked 3,685 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by kissTheApex
I did NOT know that. That would explain the swings I was getting let’s say Sunday early morning indoor rides versus Monday after work indoor rides.
Ah, yeah. And it's relative to your expected power (bike) or pace (running) to HR. It also punishes me heavily for riding with AG, because it thinks my HR should be lower than it is for the lower effort. I've come to the conclusion that it's mostly useless (which of course doesn't stop me from looking at it and wanting it to go higher).
Bah Humbug is offline  
Likes For Bah Humbug:
Old 06-06-20, 01:33 PM
  #8502  
smelling the roses
 
seedsbelize's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Tixkokob, Yucatán, México
Posts: 15,320

Bikes: 79 Trek 930, 80 Trek 414, 84 Schwinn Letour Luxe (coupled), 92 Schwinn Paramount PDG 5

Liked 901 Times in 612 Posts
I seem to have an edge today. I wonder what's up with that.
__________________
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Auto-pause is a honey-tongued devil whispering sweet lies in your ear.


seedsbelize is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 01:35 PM
  #8503  
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Liked 3,685 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
So I have a question. Maybe I should ask the marginal gains podcast gang, but I will start here. My suspicion is it doesn’t make much of a difference, but the question involves whether you should pedal downhill when going medium pace, say at 25MPH on a 3-4% downhill. I usually do soft pedal at maybe 50-100w, and I expect that gets me only 1 MPH faster than just coasting. It’s easy to calculate the gain/cost using an online calculator to estimate the aero benefits of coasting vs pedaling and the speed difference at coasting vs soft-pedaling. The harder part is figuring out if the modest power output “costs” anything from future output needed when the inevitable next climb starts.

Anyone have some evidence based answers?
I don't have numbers (go ask MG for those), but my understanding is you're still "recovering" at 50-100w and so the added speed is worth it. The very marginal additional recovery of 0w would have a hard time overcoming lower speed on that downhill. In general, in tri, the goal is to be thumping out as much power as you can on the downhills because it'll still be lower than average and still be raising your VI.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Likes For Bah Humbug:
Old 06-06-20, 01:36 PM
  #8504  
Super Modest
 
Trsnrtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,589

Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC

Liked 4,802 Times in 2,189 Posts
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Dead in the forest since before I was born. My uncle (who's also getitng one of the knives) had to drag the rear subassembly back to his garage to get the leaves off with a plasma cutter because they were so thoroughly rusted to the frame.


Cool!
__________________
Keep the chain tight!







Trsnrtr is offline  
Likes For Trsnrtr:
Old 06-06-20, 01:38 PM
  #8505  
Super Modest
 
Trsnrtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,589

Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC

Liked 4,802 Times in 2,189 Posts
Originally Posted by kissTheApex
My garmin told me I’m 3% acclimated to heat after this morning’s ride.. what puny acclimatization! It feels like a pity acclimatization.

I'm up to 9%.
__________________
Keep the chain tight!







Trsnrtr is offline  
Likes For Trsnrtr:
Old 06-06-20, 01:45 PM
  #8506  
Super Modest
 
Trsnrtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,589

Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC

Liked 4,802 Times in 2,189 Posts
Originally Posted by rjones28
Just trimming the boom.

Similar to my wife's 2019 Road AR.

__________________
Keep the chain tight!







Trsnrtr is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 01:47 PM
  #8507  
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Liked 3,685 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Cool!
That is, indeed, a dead box spring that was thrown away inside the car. Different time...
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 01:47 PM
  #8508  
Super Modest
 
Trsnrtr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Central Illinois
Posts: 23,589

Bikes: Trek Emonda, Giant Propel, Colnago V3, Co-Motion Supremo, ICE VTX WC

Liked 4,802 Times in 2,189 Posts
Originally Posted by seedsbelize
it's a bike, datlas go out and enjoy yourself.
"qft"
__________________
Keep the chain tight!







Trsnrtr is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 01:50 PM
  #8509  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: 757
Posts: 11,358

Bikes: Madone, Emonda, 5500, Ritchey Breakaway

Liked 5,306 Times in 2,267 Posts
Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
Similar to my wife's 2019 Road AR.


looks like a blast to ride.
bampilot06 is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 01:52 PM
  #8510  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Liked 9,456 Times in 4,672 Posts
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
And it was damn amateur hour out on the MUP this morning. At the start of my second loop down the trail I saw two people sitting fixing a wheel; when I asked if they were ok they asked if I had a pump. It turns out B had already stopped to help A, and between them they had one CO2 that had been left screwed into the chuck and slowly leaked out, and was fused to the chuck. I used my chuck and CO2 to inflate the tire and... it immediately popped because he hadn't checked the tire, and the tire had a good 1/2" gash in the sidewall from hitting whatever he hit, which also had driven a spike of clincher bead into the tire. Tire shot, new tube shot, rim likely shot, and he had no idea on anything.

Meanwhile, before even trying my CO2, I hear a crash behind me, because some tri girl out with one of the big local groups wiped out. She stone-cold ignored the 4-5 people asking if she was ok and rode on, so I guess she was, but wow.

In the end I bailed halfway through lap 3 because I couldn't take it any more.
Well, that makes me feel a little better about my technical difficulties on the ride. After a few hundred miles, my tubeless plug/bacon strip blew out. Rather than try to plug it again, I popped in a tube. For whatever reason, though, tubeless tires don't like seating on my rims with a tube in 'em, so I had to wrestle with it for a little bit to get the beads seated and the witness lines visible all the way around.

I think it's it's time to retire the Hutch tires and install the new Pro 1s.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 06-06-20, 02:04 PM
  #8511  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Liked 9,456 Times in 4,672 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
So I have a question. Maybe I should ask the marginal gains podcast gang, but I will start here. My suspicion is it doesn’t make much of a difference, but the question involves whether you should pedal downhill when going medium pace, say at 25MPH on a 3-4% downhill. I usually do soft pedal at maybe 50-100w, and I expect that gets me only 1 MPH faster than just coasting. It’s easy to calculate the gain/cost using an online calculator to estimate the aero benefits of coasting vs pedaling and the speed difference at coasting vs soft-pedaling. The harder part is figuring out if the modest power output “costs” anything from future output needed when the inevitable next climb starts.

Anyone have some evidence based answers?
Definitely pedal, unless you're in endurance mode on a really long ride. Maybe everybody is different, but to me, it's torque, not watts, that really burns matches; the fatigue of 300w @70 rpm is going to accumulate more than that of 300w @110rpm, simply because those slower grinds are shifting away from the cardio and on to the legs.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 02:15 PM
  #8512  
LAJ
So it is
 
LAJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Westminster, CO
Posts: 21,508

Bikes: Luzerne, 684, Boreas, Wheelhouse, Alize©®, Bayamo, Cayo

Liked 4,925 Times in 2,845 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Definitely pedal, unless you're in endurance mode on a really long ride. Maybe everybody is different, but to me, it's torque, not watts, that really burns matches; the fatigue of 300w @70 rpm is going to accumulate more than that of 300w @110rpm, simply because those slower grinds are shifting away from the cardio and on to the legs.
Endurance training rides mean you get to pedal all the time. Uphill, downhill, sideways, no matter. There is no spinning out-you hit your brakes in order to not spin out. Sunday was 4 hours, and 3% was Zone 1. Funny, because when I catch someone out in the wild, it's usually downhill, simply because maintaining 71% is the goal, and that's not what they're doing. Of course, they usually catch me going uphill, because 71% is the goal, and they dial it up to 400 watts.

Of course, you're right on long fun rides, and killing it uphill is usually the fun/challenge, and coasting downhill is the recovery point.

It always depends on the ride you're doing.
LAJ is offline  
Likes For LAJ:
Old 06-06-20, 02:18 PM
  #8513  
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 25,626
Liked 9,471 Times in 4,645 Posts
Originally Posted by BillyD
Warm weather has many advantages. If it would only stay at 80° I could deal, but nooooooooooo it's got to sprint to 90, 95, 100!!! They can keep that nonsense.
I'm ok up to 95 or so during the day but to me the worst is when it's hot at night.
big john is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 02:23 PM
  #8514  
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Liked 3,685 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by LAJ
Endurance training rides mean you get to pedal all the time. Uphill, downhill, sideways, no matter. There is no spinning out-you hit your brakes in order to not spin out. Sunday was 4 hours, and 3% was Zone 1. Funny, because when I catch someone out in the wild, it's usually downhill, simply because maintaining 71% is the goal, and that's not what they're doing. Of course, they usually catch me going uphill, because 71% is the goal, and they dial it up to 400 watts.

Of course, you're right on long fun rides, and killing it uphill is usually the fun/challenge, and coasting downhill is the recovery point.

It always depends on the ride you're doing.
That's a new one, even for me.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 02:28 PM
  #8515  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Liked 9,456 Times in 4,672 Posts
Oh, on my ride today, I saw an establishment with a name that Bah Humbug and his dad joke sense of humor could appreciate: G-Will Liquors.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 06-06-20, 03:18 PM
  #8516  
Should Be More Popular
 
datlas's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,317

Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix

Liked 9,221 Times in 4,273 Posts
It’s gotten hot enough in the house that I have migrated to the basement. Luckily it’s going to cool off tonight and the whole-house fan is on a circuit that has power from the generator. The water heater is not, which meant a short military-style cold shower post ride. Very refreshing!!

The power company website says we will get our power back by 11 tonight but I don’t believe it. There are tons of downed trees and wires all around here and it’s going to take them several more days to get to everything.
__________________
Originally Posted by rjones28
Addiction is all about class.
datlas is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 03:53 PM
  #8517  
serious cyclist
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 21,147

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Liked 3,685 Times in 2,028 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Oh, on my ride today, I saw an establishment with a name that Bah Humbug and his dad joke sense of humor could appreciate: G-Will Liquors.
Somehow I'm whiffing on this one...
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 03:59 PM
  #8518  
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,344

Bikes: Shmikes

Liked 5,973 Times in 3,220 Posts
Originally Posted by datlas
It’s gotten hot enough in the house that I have migrated to the basement. Luckily it’s going to cool off tonight and the whole-house fan is on a circuit that has power from the generator. The water heater is not, which meant a short military-style cold shower post ride. Very refreshing!!

The power company website says we will get our power back by 11 tonight but I don’t believe it. There are tons of downed trees and wires all around here and it’s going to take them several more days to get to everything.
Nothing induces (short-lived) euphoria like a little cold shock after a nice sauna, a steam bath, or a hot ride, but your situation sounds pretty unpleasant.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:05 PM
  #8519  
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,344

Bikes: Shmikes

Liked 5,973 Times in 3,220 Posts
Well, I managed to fit a TSS > 600 into a four day week, including a full-on, hilly, 20 mi. TT and a lot of non-acclimated time in the heat. I'm ready for a couple days off the bike and on the water.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:07 PM
  #8520  
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,344

Bikes: Shmikes

Liked 5,973 Times in 3,220 Posts
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Somehow I'm whiffing on this one...
Me too. However, it suggest to me, in a general way, the perennial racing sailboat boat name, Liquor Box.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:12 PM
  #8521  
Silver Comet Fred
 
DougRNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NW Metro Atl.
Posts: 12,320

Bikes: 1

Liked 3,169 Times in 1,825 Posts
Pro tip: if your rubber band for your Cadence Sensor breaks, simply put the sensor in your sock down near your ankle.

#SayNoToBigRubberBand
DougRNS is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:13 PM
  #8522  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,520

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Liked 9,456 Times in 4,672 Posts
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug
Somehow I'm whiffing on this one...
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
Me too.
Well, gee willikers - I bet Velo Vol would get it.
​​​​​​
Originally Posted by MoAlpha
However, it suggest to me, in a general way, the perennial racing sailboat boat name, Liquor Box.
As a young adult, ​​​​​I wanted to open a liquor store with that name.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:15 PM
  #8523  
• —
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 12,344

Bikes: Shmikes

Liked 5,973 Times in 3,220 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Well, gee willikers - I bet Velo Vol would get it.
​​​​​​So innocuous. No wonder it went over my tiny head. No one ever said [MENTION=25227]Velo Vol[/MENTION] wasn't as smart as they come.
MoAlpha is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:19 PM
  #8524  
Silver Comet Fred
 
DougRNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NW Metro Atl.
Posts: 12,320

Bikes: 1

Liked 3,169 Times in 1,825 Posts

[MENTION=29415]BillyD[/MENTION]
DougRNS is offline  
Old 06-06-20, 04:22 PM
  #8525  
Silver Comet Fred
 
DougRNS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: NW Metro Atl.
Posts: 12,320

Bikes: 1

Liked 3,169 Times in 1,825 Posts
#YearWithoutSummer
DougRNS is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.