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Tubeless or not?

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Tubeless or not?

Old 06-25-20, 07:35 PM
  #251  
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Originally Posted by Trsnrtr
WhyFi I just mounted two Pro1 Addis TLE tires (25c) a few minutes ago. No soap or lube, just mounted them with my heroic grip and hit them 150 PSI. I’ll pull the valves and put sealant in tomorrow. They are currently “resting” at 100 psi.

I used your Merlin link, ordered them Monday night and they came today. Shipping was a little high but the total price was still decent.
The more I ride them, the more I *really* like them. I can't wait to see what they're like when I get them on the wider rims.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:26 AM
  #252  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
The more I ride them, the more I *really* like them. I can't wait to see what they're like when I get them on the wider rims.
I checked on them this morning and both are holding air fine without sealant. Had to leave for an appointment and will put orange seal in this afternoon and pump them up to 75-80 psi for a ride tomorrow.
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Old 06-26-20, 09:31 AM
  #253  
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Hey guys, quick question - I think this may have been asked before, but if if switching between sealant brands (MucOff to Caffelatte in this case), should i get ride of the old sealant (and if so, how rigorous do i need to be)?
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Old 06-26-20, 09:35 AM
  #254  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
Hey guys, quick question - I think this may have been asked before, but if if switching between sealant brands (MucOff to Caffelatte in this case), should i get ride of the old sealant (and if so, how rigorous do i need to be)?
Shouldn't need to, unless it's old and watery. If they're both silicone based, and almost all of them are, they should play well together.
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Old 07-03-20, 07:32 AM
  #255  
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I swear to god, Velogoddess hates my guts.

In the past year, riding 3 tubed wheelsets and 2 tubeless wheelsets (about 50-50), I have had 4 flats on the tubeless - 2 sidewall cuts on Schwalbe Pro Ones that rendered them useless, 1 tread cut on GP5ks which kinda sealed on the ride but not well enough to pump up the next day and 1 on the sidewalls of my Specialized RapidAirs which has *sorta* sealed but still does the occasional sealant bukake every so often. By comparison, i have had 1 flat on my clinchers (Veloflex Corsas, GP5k clinchers and Turbo Cottons). Go figure.

So i wanted to figure out what to do with the RapidAirs. It has kinda sealed but still does tend to bubble a bit occasionally. One option is to put a patch on the inside - this is the safest option and will likely be my fallback option. However, i want to get some practice using plugs, in case i have to use them mid-ride some day.

I have Effeto Mariposa Tappabuco and have ordered Stan's Darts. Anyone have any experience with either of these? The Tappabuco i have is the 3.5mm one (the wider version): is there any risk with using these on a small hole? Stands to reason that if you widen a hole and it doesnt seal, you have just screwed the pooch bigtime.
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...yre-plug-tool/
https://www.notubes.com/DART

Also - I was also looking at ordering some Dynaplugs (will order it when along with a few more spares - will have to be an international order, as no one carries it in this part of the world) but am wondering about the part that sticks out of the tire and also the metal piece on the inside - do you notice the former when riding? And is there a risk of the latter coming loose and damaging a carbon rim?
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Old 07-03-20, 07:34 AM
  #256  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Shouldn't need to, unless it's old and watery. If they're both silicone based, and almost all of them are, they should play well together.
Oh, on this - the Caffelatte is latex based, the Mucoff isnt. I am assuming that may make a difference?
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Old 07-03-20, 10:12 AM
  #257  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
Oh, on this - the Caffelatte is latex based, the Mucoff isnt. I am assuming that may make a difference?
Maybe. In that case, I'd probably get ride of whatever liquid is left over and then put in the new stuff. I wouldn't get anal about it, though.
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Old 07-03-20, 10:19 AM
  #258  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
I swear to god, Velogoddess hates my guts.

In the past year, riding 3 tubed wheelsets and 2 tubeless wheelsets (about 50-50), I have had 4 flats on the tubeless - 2 sidewall cuts on Schwalbe Pro Ones that rendered them useless, 1 tread cut on GP5ks which kinda sealed on the ride but not well enough to pump up the next day and 1 on the sidewalls of my Specialized RapidAirs which has *sorta* sealed but still does the occasional sealant bukake every so often. By comparison, i have had 1 flat on my clinchers (Veloflex Corsas, GP5k clinchers and Turbo Cottons). Go figure.

So i wanted to figure out what to do with the RapidAirs. It has kinda sealed but still does tend to bubble a bit occasionally. One option is to put a patch on the inside - this is the safest option and will likely be my fallback option. However, i want to get some practice using plugs, in case i have to use them mid-ride some day.

I have Effeto Mariposa Tappabuco and have ordered Stan's Darts. Anyone have any experience with either of these? The Tappabuco i have is the 3.5mm one (the wider version): is there any risk with using these on a small hole? Stands to reason that if you widen a hole and it doesnt seal, you have just screwed the pooch bigtime.
https://www.effettomariposa.eu/en/pr...yre-plug-tool/
https://www.notubes.com/DART

Also - I was also looking at ordering some Dynaplugs (will order it when along with a few more spares - will have to be an international order, as no one carries it in this part of the world) but am wondering about the part that sticks out of the tire and also the metal piece on the inside - do you notice the former when riding? And is there a risk of the latter coming loose and damaging a carbon rim?
I'll be interested to hear how both work out. I really like the idea of having the Tappabuco ready at a moment's notice, rather than letting more air and sealant piddle out while getting stuff out of the tool roll. And the Darts sound really interesting but, as with all things Stan's, I'm just a little leery when it comes to using their stuff on road tires.
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Old 07-03-20, 12:10 PM
  #259  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I'll be interested to hear how both work out. I really like the idea of having the Tappabuco ready at a moment's notice, rather than letting more air and sealant piddle out while getting stuff out of the tool roll. And the Darts sound really interesting but, as with all things Stan's, I'm just a little leery when it comes to using their stuff on road tires.
Will keep you posted. When the Darts arrive, i plan to use them unless their prong is a lot larger than the Tapppabuco one. Stans said they will work with Caffelattex, but not with Mucoff - apparently, they need latex sealant. This is also good, as it lets me compare 2 different sealants - the foamy, latex Caffelattex which is supposedly better for sidewall cuts (which is all i seem to be getting these days) and the regular Muc-off.

Btw, the version of the Tappabuco i got is the one where all the bits go into a CO2-canister-style storage device. So not the instant-ready version you had mentioned earlier.
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Old 07-03-20, 12:53 PM
  #260  
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+1 For Dynaplugs. Work great and I trimmed loose piece after the ride and now carry small swiss army knife in the tool bag. Never thought of the metal dart again but I assume it's still in the wheel attached to plug material.
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Old 07-04-20, 09:25 PM
  #261  
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I got my first and second punctures today with my tubeless setup. First one was in the tread of the rear and sealed in about the time it took me to feel the sealant hit my calf, stop, and find the puncture (~10 seconds). Little bubbling that I wiped off and it seemed good to go. I took it easy for the next few miles checking to make sure it wasnít losing more air and then I trusted it did itís job as I rode the rest of my ride (another 28 miles).

Second one was in the sidewall of the front and lost almost all the air by the time I come to a stop. Lots of sealant sprayed out and I wasnít sure how much I had left to seal it. I could see it was a larger hole so I went for the tubeless plug kit. I was having some issues getting the plug strip in (not much room to skewer it all in without feeling like youíll hit something else in a 25mm tire) but finally did, the only issue was that I didnít have anything to cut off the excess sticking out. It wasnít quite sealing and as I would spin the tire the excess plug tail kept hitting the fork which wasnít going to let it seal. So I rode maybe a half mile to a spot where I could sit down off the road in some shade and threw a tube in. Still had plenty of sealant left when I popped the bead and put the tube in. Iím confident that if I had a blade I could have cut the excess plug and been fine. Oh well. 1-1 for tubeless at the moment.

Anyone running Mavic UST rims without tape? Where I had to remove the valve to put in my tube, do I need to add rim tape now in order to get a seal around the valve stem, or should I be able to put the valve back in and have it seal ok? Figured Iíd ask before trying and maybe ending up with a mess to clean up.

Lessons learned are to bring a knife and a few shop towels.

Last edited by vandalarchitect; 07-04-20 at 09:32 PM.
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Old 07-27-20, 08:12 AM
  #262  
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Pirelli just announced a couple new tubeless tires, more race-oriented than their current offerings - the P Zero Race TLR and TLR SL (SuperLight). The regular TLR will have a little more puncture protection and will be ~20g heavier than the SL and will have a 30mm option (the SL tops out at 28mm) Both are compatible with hookless rims ().

I'm really loving the Pro 1 Addix TLE, but it's nice to see another option on the market and I might have to pick up a set if I catch them at a good price.
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Old 08-06-20, 07:05 AM
  #263  
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So another tubeless anecdote from someone who is still undecided on whether it is worth sticking with it or not: got a pair of Velocity A23 rims with Sapim spokes and Novatec hubs, and decided to run them tubeless as they were going to go on my steel gravel/CX bike. Had the bikeshop that built up the wheel install the rim tape and valve.

Got them home and mounted Panaracer Gravelking Slick 35s. Tires went on fairly easily - had to use a level for the last bit but not much fuss. But they absolutely did not seat. Tried a floor pump. Tried a blast with an Air Shot style canister filled to 130psi. Nada. Took them back to the bike shop and they couldnt get it to seat with their compressor either. They changed to a different rim tape and it seated quite easily with the compressor. I used their workspace to add some sealant and was able to inflate it up with a pump again.

So far so good. I have 3 different bacon-strip style plugs now as well: Caffelatex Tappabucos, Stan's Darts (which requires a latex sealant - so i will use that once i finish my bottle of MucOff and switch to Caffelattex) and Genuine Innovations. The Caffelattex prong is the biggest, and i suspect may work better for thicker tires, so gonna start taking that out with my on rides with this bike.
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Old 08-06-20, 07:22 AM
  #264  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
They changed to a different rim tape and it seated quite easily with the compressor.
That's weird. I've had problems seating with some tape dimpling in to the spoke holes and letting air escape under the tire beads, but can't think of any other reasons as to why tape might make a difference. Maybe one was more slickery than the other? I suppose that the guys at the shop had a reason to suspect the tape - did they mention anything?

In my own tubeless news, I took a hisser at about mile 25 on my ride yesterday. I saw the damn patch of broken glass and thought that my swerve got me safely around it, but nope - psst-psst-psst. Several wheel revolutions and it was still going, so I stopped to check. Nothing embedded and not terribly big, so I just let it spin a little more. Sealed up fine within another handful of revolutions. The tire was slightly softer than the front, so I put a few pumps in to it and rode trouble-free for the remaining 105 miles.
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Old 08-06-20, 10:52 AM
  #265  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
That's weird. I've had problems seating with some tape dimpling in to the spoke holes and letting air escape under the tire beads, but can't think of any other reasons as to why tape might make a difference. Maybe one was more slickery than the other? I suppose that the guys at the shop had a reason to suspect the tape - did they mention anything?

In my own tubeless news, I took a hisser at about mile 25 on my ride yesterday. I saw the damn patch of broken glass and thought that my swerve got me safely around it, but nope - psst-psst-psst. Several wheel revolutions and it was still going, so I stopped to check. Nothing embedded and not terribly big, so I just let it spin a little more. Sealed up fine within another handful of revolutions. The tire was slightly softer than the front, so I put a few pumps in to it and rode trouble-free for the remaining 105 miles.
The mechanic checked to see where the air was leaking from - it around the valve area. I think that is what led him to change the tape and use a different one while he was at it.

So for your flat - can i ask what tire size and psi were you running? In the one flat that did re-seal - the one i had mentioned in my earlier post - the tires went from the 80-85psi and sealed at 40psi. .I was on a hill at the time and while the climb was ok albeit a bit more labored, the descent felt very squirrelly (although to be fair, both of these could be in my head). And it didnt seal the next day either - adding air beyond 50psi caused more sealant bukake and i had to get rid of the sealant and install a tube. So i wonder if there is a limit above which sealant doesnt seal as effectively.

Incidentally, after a few months, i went tubeless with the same GP5ks and this time, they stayed inflated without any sealant. I guess the remnants of the sealant did its job by then.
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Old 08-06-20, 10:56 AM
  #266  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
I've had problems seating with some tape dimpling in to the spoke holes and letting air escape under the tire beads.
That has been the only trouble I have had with tubeless. My solution was to use 3 wraps of 3M tape with Orange Seal Winter sealant, and I have tried a lot of different tape/sealant combinations. The Orange Seal Winter mix has the advantage of not freezing when my unheated garage goes into sub-zero F temperatures.

I also painted the front rim with a neoprene paint over the tape, but on the rear which will need spoke maintenance that is a no go. Too much work to remove that crap.

Last year I did have several sidewall cuts which were all over 10 mm in length with Schwalbe Pro One tubeless. No, they did not seal. Hard to blame the tires for that kind of thing. Broken beer bottles in the road will cause trouble for bicycle tires.

This year, with the local University doing remote classes only, I have been averaging about 200 miles a week since early April I have had zero flats on Conti GP5000 tubeless on both the road bike and the tandem.
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Old 08-06-20, 11:24 AM
  #267  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
The mechanic checked to see where the air was leaking from - it around the valve area. I think that is what led him to change the tape and use a different one while he was at it.

So for your flat - can i ask what tire size and psi were you running? In the one flat that did re-seal - the one i had mentioned in my earlier post - the tires went from the 80-85psi and sealed at 40psi. .I was on a hill at the time and while the climb was ok albeit a bit more labored, the descent felt very squirrelly (although to be fair, both of these could be in my head). And it didnt seal the next day either - adding air beyond 50psi caused more sealant bukake and i had to get rid of the sealant and install a tube. So i wonder if there is a limit above which sealant doesnt seal as effectively.

Incidentally, after a few months, i went tubeless with the same GP5ks and this time, they stayed inflated without any sealant. I guess the remnants of the sealant did its job by then.
This was with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One Addix on Zipp 303S, which are pretty wide, so I was running at ~58F/~62R. How big was your puncture and with which sealant? Before moving to 28-30mm tires, I had some 25mm Gavia SLRs that I ran at ~100-105psi - those sealed up just fine at those pressures with regular OS (until I let a friend borrow them, while he was waiting on some GP5Ks to arrive, and he gashed 'em )
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Old 08-06-20, 11:28 AM
  #268  
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Originally Posted by DangerousDanR
That has been the only trouble I have had with tubeless. My solution was to use 3 wraps of 3M tape with Orange Seal Winter sealant, and I have tried a lot of different tape/sealant combinations. The Orange Seal Winter mix has the advantage of not freezing when my unheated garage goes into sub-zero F temperatures.

I also painted the front rim with a neoprene paint over the tape, but on the rear which will need spoke maintenance that is a no go. Too much work to remove that crap.

Last year I did have several sidewall cuts which were all over 10 mm in length with Schwalbe Pro One tubeless. No, they did not seal. Hard to blame the tires for that kind of thing. Broken beer bottles in the road will cause trouble for bicycle tires.

This year, with the local University doing remote classes only, I have been averaging about 200 miles a week since early April I have had zero flats on Conti GP5000 tubeless on both the road bike and the tandem.
10mm? Yeouch. Yeah, can't blame tubeless for not plugging that. 5mm is pretty borderline IME, but those are also pretty rare IME.
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Old 08-06-20, 12:08 PM
  #269  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
This was with 28mm Schwalbe Pro One Addix on Zipp 303S, which are pretty wide, so I was running at ~58F/~62R. How big was your puncture and with which sealant? Before moving to 28-30mm tires, I had some 25mm Gavia SLRs that I ran at ~100-105psi - those sealed up just fine at those pressures with regular OS (until I let a friend borrow them, while he was waiting on some GP5Ks to arrive, and he gashed 'em )
Sheeit, i dont remember how wide the cut was, for sure, but off memory, i'd say less than a cm? But not a wide gash - you had to pull at the tire to expose the cut. Running Muc Off and have bottles of Caffelatex and Orange Sealant waiting to be used next.

And interesting that you are running that low - I have 26mm RapidAirs on CL50s, which measure out to about 29mm and 24mm Turbo Cottons which measure out to about 27.xxmm on CLX64s. I run them at around 80-85psi. 60psi seems scary low. Hell, i pumped the 35cs up to 55psi, the max pressure, and then added 1 more pump for good luck

Last edited by guadzilla; 08-06-20 at 12:17 PM.
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Old 08-06-20, 12:21 PM
  #270  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
Sheeit, i dont remember how wide the cut was, for sure, but off memory, i'd say a cm or so? But not a wide gash - you had to pull at the tire to expose the cut. Running Muc Off and have bottles of Caffelatex and Orange Sealant waiting to be used next.

And interesting that you are running that low - I have 26mm RapidAirs on CL50s, which measure out to about 29mm and 24mm Turbo Cottons which measure out to about 27.xxmm on CLX64s. I run them at around 80-85psi. 60psi seems scary low. Hell, i pumped the 35cs up to 55psi, the max pressure, and then added 1 more pump for good luck
A cm or so should be a non-event. As in, you shouldn't have even noticed it. That doesn't speak well of Muc-Off (though I do like their valve stems ).

The Zipps are 23mm wide, internally. I haven't measured the Schwalbes when mounted and inflated, but they're probably in the 30-31mm range (the new Schwalbe should measure to their nominal on a 19mm int rim). Basically, I'm running right at the recommended pressure from Zipp's charts - they've been great out of the gate, no squirm in the corners or anything else untoward, so I haven't tweaked up or down. I used to run my 30mm G-One Speeds on 17mm int Assualts at 70psi - those were pretty good, but a little sluggish in terms of handling compared to a racy 28mm tire. The 303S/ProOne combo has been better in all regards.
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Old 08-06-20, 12:41 PM
  #271  
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Side note - how do you like those 303S? They feel stiff and responsive to ride?
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Old 08-06-20, 12:47 PM
  #272  
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
Side note - how do you like those 303S? They feel stiff and responsive to ride?
Love 'em. I'm about your size, IIRC, and can lay down decent short-term power - can't say that I've noticed anything iffy even when thrashing them.
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Old 08-06-20, 10:14 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Love 'em. I'm about your size, IIRC, and can lay down decent short-term power - can't say that I've noticed anything iffy even when thrashing them.
I have been tempted by them for a while. But - you will find this familiar - the logo has been holding me back. I already have 2 deep section wheels with stealth logos. I want white decals and i want 2 of them - on opposite sides of the rim.
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Old 08-07-20, 06:11 AM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla
I have been tempted by them for a while. But - you will find this familiar - the logo has been holding me back. I already have 2 deep section wheels with stealth logos. I want white decals and i want 2 of them - on opposite sides of the rim.
Ah - we're passing in opposite directions. I'm coming from some Assault SLGs, which have opposing, white outlined logos, so I wanted more stealthy. Well, that and wider, yadda, yadda.
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Old 08-08-20, 07:31 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
Ah - we're passing in opposite directions. I'm coming from some Assault SLGs, which have opposing, white outlined logos, so I wanted more stealthy. Well, that and wider, yadda, yadda.
Ha, yeah... i have 2 stealth Rovals. Need something more bling

So i did dig into the Zipps a little more after your review. In the end, dont see the point. I will be putting them on a gravel bike with a 34-35mm wide tires. Since the OD of these rims is a lot lower, I am going to pay a pretty hefty aero penalty with the bulbuous tires. Given that, i might as well save a bunch of money and get a Light Bicycle wheelset instead. Or bite the bullet and go BIG with the 3T Discus wheels. 45mm deep, 40mm wide. It's about the girth these days, anyway.
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