Knee Pain and Setback
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Knee Pain and Setback
So I'm completely new to cycling. Bought this bike on craigslist. Been experiencing knee pain (mostly in front and under the kneecap). I realized if I shift my butt back basically to where I'm barely sitting on the back end on the saddle the knee pain goes away completely. So I'm basically off the saddle in that position. I've tried adjusting the height and fore aft. But the only thing that makes the pain go away is shifting my sitting position basically back-off the seat. So I'm wondering if this frame is too small.. its 56 and I'm 6ft with long legs. I don't necessary feel crunched on the bike upper body wise. Its just my knees. I've looked into setback seat posts but I'm wondering if there wont be one far back enough to do the job. The crank arm length is 170
here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.
copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH
here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.
copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH
Last edited by zackw419; 04-13-20 at 04:09 PM.
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Here's your pic -
Is the current seat post a zero-setback?
In terms of the frame, as you go up in size, the seat tube angle doesn't often change once you get to 56cm and up, so moving to a 58 or even 61 will often have your saddle in the same position relative to the crankset, anyway. Most road bikes in your size range are going to have a STA around 73°. Maybe you'll find something with a 72° STA, but that would move you back ~15mm whereas a setback post will commonly have 25mm of setback.
Is the current seat post a zero-setback?
In terms of the frame, as you go up in size, the seat tube angle doesn't often change once you get to 56cm and up, so moving to a 58 or even 61 will often have your saddle in the same position relative to the crankset, anyway. Most road bikes in your size range are going to have a STA around 73°. Maybe you'll find something with a 72° STA, but that would move you back ~15mm whereas a setback post will commonly have 25mm of setback.
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I cant think of an obvious solution, other than keep experimenting.
Your leg should be straight when the pedal is at the bottom. From the picture, it looks like it probably is. Is it? Having the saddle low is harsh in the knees.
Do you tend to slide forward on the saddle? It wants to be somewhere near level.
Is a larger saddle beneficial?
If you raised the handlebars, would that be beneficial?
Your leg should be straight when the pedal is at the bottom. From the picture, it looks like it probably is. Is it? Having the saddle low is harsh in the knees.
Do you tend to slide forward on the saddle? It wants to be somewhere near level.
Is a larger saddle beneficial?
If you raised the handlebars, would that be beneficial?
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to first post: thanks. this seatpost is 15mm setback i believe.
to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.
Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback
to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.
Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback
Last edited by zackw419; 04-13-20 at 05:50 PM.
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As WhyFi says, a larger frame will probably only change where the handlebars are relative to the bottom bracket, not the seat.
Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;
I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.
I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.
Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,
Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.
Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;
I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.
I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.
Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,
Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.
Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
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to first post: thanks. this seatpost is 15mm setback i believe.
to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.
Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback
to second post: with how its setup now- my leg is near straight at the bottom stroke. and no I dont slide forward. Perhaps a larger saddle would help if the rails are longer for more aft.
Im mainly wondering if the frame looks too small? if its not than my only option is a seatpost with more setback
Bike size looks close enough
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Longer legs = shorter torso, so a larger frame might end up too stretched out.
A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.
I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.
Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.
Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.
+1 on the hamstring stretches.
A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.
I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.
Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.
Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.
+1 on the hamstring stretches.
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As WhyFi says, a larger frame will probably only change where the handlebars are relative to the bottom bracket, not the seat.
Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;
I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.
I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.
Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,
Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.
Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
Nitto makes a beautiful seatpost with about 40 mm setback, the S84 in lugged steel. (Not heavy! It's built like a custom steel frame, then chromed and they are gorgeous.) Sadly, probably not long enough for your bike. You are a heavier rider, so look critically at big setback posts as you will be putting a lot of load on it. At the same time, a bigger setback post better supports your seat rails which can also break. They make a lot of other seatposts too of excellent quality. Take a look at their site;
I have knee issues (that sound a lot like yours but they started 40 years ago) and ride a big setback custom seatpost (so I can center the seat rails and not break titanium seat rails which are such a blessing for this light guy who doesn't flex the steel ones.
I know knee pain all too well. Consider a larger setback post, even having someone build a good, strong one for you. (If it keeps you away from a couple of doctor's visits, it's paid for. Even custom.) A builder who could make you that post easily is TiCycles. To whatever length, diameter and setback you need. They come with the excellent Thomson 2-bolt clamp hardware and are a joy use.
Your position looks reasonable. Bike is small, but as said above, that is mostly a handlebar issue. You may find after riding a while you want a little more reach. Also that what works for your knees changes,
Knee specific advice (from one who has been riding with knees like yours a long time). I'll make it really simple. 3 things, roughly equally important. Loose hamstrings. Work on touching your toes or any of the other stretches that do the same thing. Work on them in general and especially before and/or early in rides after you warm up some. Feel your knees riding? Stop and stretch. 2) Keep them warm. Seriously warm. For me, cold knees is like running my car without oil. Do it more than once or twice and just like my car engine, I'll have to replace them. (I had custom kneewarmers made. Wear them always until the temps go into the '80s. Be happy to send you the patterns.) 3) Build your conditioning slowly and listen to those knees. They will acclimatize but at a much slower rate than your muscles. Yes, it will try your patience.
Ben (Edit because this posted before I was fininshed)
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Longer legs = shorter torso, so a larger frame might end up too stretched out.
A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.
I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.
Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.
Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.
+1 on the hamstring stretches.
A seat post with more setback- 25mm is common, and possibly a saddle with longer rails will allow more adjustment room.
I'm also 6', but with long torso & shortish legs, and have a setback seatpost and the saddle pushed way back. It puts some strain on those parts- have to really tighten the saddle clamp.
Generally it's better to have your feet placed on the pedals so that the pedal axle is more behind the ball of the foot than in front of it.
Allow time for the body to condition to the work, and pedaling faster in an easier gear puts less strain on the joints. Watch how fast experienced cyclists pedal & imitate.
+1 on the hamstring stretches.
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You should have about a 30-degree bend in your knee when you pedal is at 6 o'clock. It should not be perfectly straight.
It's hard to tell exactly in your pic, but it looks like your saddle is too far forward there. Your knee looks like it's in front of the pedal spindle. General consensus is to start with knee over the pedal spindle, but I find I prefer it a bit behind. I also have knee problems, having torn my patella, and it sounds like you are having patella issues.
So, I agree with the suggestion of a setback post. Remember, raising your saddle will also bring the saddle back.
It's hard to tell exactly in your pic, but it looks like your saddle is too far forward there. Your knee looks like it's in front of the pedal spindle. General consensus is to start with knee over the pedal spindle, but I find I prefer it a bit behind. I also have knee problems, having torn my patella, and it sounds like you are having patella issues.
So, I agree with the suggestion of a setback post. Remember, raising your saddle will also bring the saddle back.
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I've got knee issues also. Something hat happens when you slide back or forward on your seat is the raising and lowering of your heel which changes the forces on your knee. A lot of things are going on and you are new. Your body has much to adapt to so don't rush it and think equipment is some short cut.
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So I'm completely new to cycling. Bought this bike on craigslist. Been experiencing knee pain (mostly in front and under the kneecap). I realized if I shift my butt back basically to where I'm barely sitting on the back end on the saddle the knee pain goes away completely. So I'm basically off the saddle in that position. I've tried adjusting the height and fore aft. But the only thing that makes the pain go away is shifting my sitting position basically back-off the seat. So I'm wondering if this frame is too small.. its 56 and I'm 6ft with long legs. I don't necessary feel crunched on the bike upper body wise. Its just my knees. I've looked into setback seat posts but I'm wondering if there wont be one far back enough to do the job. The crank arm length is 170
here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.
copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH
here's a pic, what do you guy think? I'm sitting on the seat normally (not shifted back) in this pic.
copy and paste to address bar: imgur.com/a/MowyMhH
Maybe not your problem by the sounds of it, but can't hurt to see if you similarly move your knee during pedal strokes.
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I recently had a similar pain, front of knee, top of kneecap, turned out that my foot position was so that they were angled inward and my knee went inward during the stroke. Keeping it straight solved the issue.
Maybe not your problem by the sounds of it, but can't hurt to see if you similarly move your knee during pedal strokes.
Maybe not your problem by the sounds of it, but can't hurt to see if you similarly move your knee during pedal strokes.
#15
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A 30 degree bend at the bottom of the stroke is too much. Extend the leg fully at the bottom of the stroke. If your heel drops even an inch below horizontal, that should provide adequate bending, assuming that you pedal with the heels up a bit, not flat footed.
Get a seatpost with 25mm or more of setback.
Get a seatpost with 25mm or more of setback.
#17
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I think this bike is too small for you. If you push the seat back, you are going to end up with hamstring issues.
Did you consider getting a bike fit instead of relying on advice from BF?
Did you consider getting a bike fit instead of relying on advice from BF?