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Anyone Ever Broken a Carbon Rim with a Plastic Tire Lever?

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Anyone Ever Broken a Carbon Rim with a Plastic Tire Lever?

Old 04-23-20, 07:59 PM
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justonwo
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Anyone Ever Broken a Carbon Rim with a Plastic Tire Lever?

I've been riding with carbon rims since 2014. First a set of Zipp 303 for rim brakes, then a set of Zipp 303 NSW disc. I just purchased a Canyon with DT Swiss's super light 25th anniversary PRC 1100. They are incredibly fast and lightweight. Super wheels.

Anyway, the bike came stock with Schwalbe Pro One TT tires, which only lasted 1.5 rides until they blew.

Those insanely tight fitting tires required me to use a tire lever (blue, plastic Park lever, like I always use) to get them on. The leverage to get the tire on was apparently too much for the lip of these clincher wheels. The carbon was crushed under the force of the lever and a small crack appeared in the rim. Needless to say, I was pretty upset breaking a brand new wheel. Never mind that a replacement is $2,200! Argh.

This despite the fact that Canyon's road bike manual says to use a tire lever to the get wheel on if the fit is tight.

So lesson learned, I guess. I probably will struggle to get tires on by hand in the future rather than risk breaking the rim. Tubeless is a no-brainer for my mountain bikes, but the tires are a bit of a pain for road bikes.





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Old 04-23-20, 08:03 PM
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Aww, what a bloody spew.

I always figured clincher rims are a damn tall order for carbon... for my first full carbon rims I went tubular. For clinchers, at least rim brake ones, I really like Shimano's RS80/81/Dura-Ace family. Yeah, they're pretty slow to get on the wide rim bandwagon, but the ally/carbon construction really does offer the best of both worlds I reckon.

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Old 04-23-20, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Aww, what a bloody spew.

I always figured clincher rims are a damn tall order for carbon... for my first full carbon rims I went tubular. For clinchers, at least rim brake ones, I really like Shimano's RS80/81/Dura-Ace family. Yeah, they're pretty slow to get on the wide rim bandwagon, but the ally/carbon construction really does offer the best of both worlds I reckon.
It could be that these wheels are built for absolute minimal weight. I've not had this issue with my other carbon clinchers, which I've had for 6 years. These are disc brake wheels.
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Old 04-23-20, 08:38 PM
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Yeah, I wouldn't expect such a failure to be very likely, but when you consider that carbon really only works in tension, it should be obvious that clincher rims aren't a great application for carbon. There's very little room for plies oriented to hold that part of the rim.
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Old 04-23-20, 08:40 PM
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Two thoughts....

1) my LBS mechanics scream at me every time I suggest that I want to go tubeless on my roadbikes.... as far as they are concerned, no worth the headaches for road (but most definitely worth it for mountain bikes)
2) I usually use Michelin Pro4s on my bikes.... they are an absolute ***** to pull over the rim lips. In my garage (and I do throw it in my jersey pocket if my wife isn't available for road side pick up) I use a Kool Stop bead jack (google it...use the vendor link of your choice...). Absolute miracle gadget for tough tires. When I burn out my supply of Michelin's I'll probably just to stick to Conti GP4k/5k in the future just because they do mount so much easier....
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Old 04-23-20, 08:47 PM
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I feel your pain.

I have a pair of Bontrager Aeolus 3 wheels and I could not for the life of me get the Rene Herse Chinook Pass tires on that wheelset. It got to the point that I thought if I try anymore I was gong to break the rim, so I just gave up. Like you I was using a plastic tire lever. Now after seeing your mishap I am convinced that if you can't put it on by hand then it the combination is not worth it.

For comparison sake the tires went on easily on Bontrager Paradigm aluminum rims.

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Even though it might be seen as user error, have thought about asking about a warranty claim or crash replacement? You might be surprised by their response.

Good luck.
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Old 04-23-20, 08:54 PM
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That is such a bummer - sorry to hear that. Weíll all be better off when the industry can settle on tubeless standards. I installed those same tires on my enve ses 3.4s a few days ago and was able to do so by hand, easily! It was also painless to seat them.

Last year I installed a pair of GP 5000 TLs on a pair of DT Swiss prc 1400s and while it required tire levers it wasnít terrible. If you replace your wheel maybe try those? The set up was pretty sweet.

Good luck.
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Old 04-23-20, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Beach Bob View Post
Two thoughts....

1) my LBS mechanics scream at me every time I suggest that I want to go tubeless on my roadbikes.... as far as they are concerned, no worth the headaches for road (but most definitely worth it for mountain bikes)
2) I usually use Michelin Pro4s on my bikes.... they are an absolute ***** to pull over the rim lips. In my garage (and I do throw it in my jersey pocket if my wife isn't available for road side pick up) I use a Kool Stop bead jack (google it...use the vendor link of your choice...). Absolute miracle gadget for tough tires. When I burn out my supply of Michelin's I'll probably just to stick to Conti GP4k/5k in the future just because they do mount so much easier....
Yep, I tend to agree with your LBS. I get a flat on tubes maybe once every 1,000 to 2,000 miles? I once went 4,000 miles on Zipp 303 Firecrests without a flat. And fixing a flat on tube tires is so fast and easy, tubeless on road bikes just doesnít seem to add up for me.

That bead jack is a very cool invention and looks very handy in the shop environment. It looks like it puts minimal lateral stress on the wall of the rim, which I think is the big issue with using a tire lever. My only issue would be that I wouldnít want to carry that tool with me in the event of a roadside flat.

Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
I feel your pain.

I have a pair of Bontrager Aeolus 3 wheels and I could not for the life of me get the Rene Herse Chinook Pass tires on that wheelset. It got to the point that I thought if I try anymore I was gong to break the rim, so I just gave up. Like you I was using a plastic tire lever. Now after seeing your mishap I am convinced that if you can't put it on by hand then it the combination is not worth it.

For comparison sake the tires went on easily on Bontrager Paradigm aluminum rims.

Sorry to hear about your mishap. Even though it might be seen as user error, have thought about asking about a warranty claim or crash replacement? You might be surprised by their response.

Good luck.
I think my lesson learned here is to only use tires that go on without a tool. If I canít do it by hand, I probably wonít do it at all. Iím not sure how DT Swiss will handle the claim, but the wheel is on its way to them. They can replace the rim, but whether itíll be considered warranty or Iíll have to pay for crash replacement is not clear. There arenít any warnings against using a tire lever in either DT Swissís manual or Canyonís. Anyway, itíll get replaced one way or the other. Canyon said they would step in if DT Swiss doesnít ďhook me up.Ē The rims are paired with the Ultimate Evo 10.0, which weighs in at 14.7 lbs with full AXS, disc brakes, pedals, cages, etc. Itís a very, very fast climber. Itís a much different feel than my Roubaix.

Originally Posted by cp88mb1 View Post
That is such a bummer - sorry to hear that. Weíll all be better off when the industry can settle on tubeless standards. I installed those same tires on my enve ses 3.4s a few days ago and was able to do so by hand, easily! It was also painless to seat them.

Last year I installed a pair of GP 5000 TLs on a pair of DT Swiss prc 1400s and while it required tire levers it wasnít terrible. If you replace your wheel maybe try those? The set up was pretty sweet.

Good luck.
Thanks for condolences. I have the Conti 5000s on my Roubaix with Zipp 303s and I like them quite a bit. This bike just happened to come with Schwalbe Pro One TT tires, so I figured Iíd give them a shot. The treads are paper thin, so they didnít last. I had a pair of Specialized Turbo Cotton 28s in the garage and will throw them on. These are the ďHell of the NorthĒ version, which has a bit more tread hanging over the sidewall. Designed for cobble riding, as the name implies. These are great tires as well. Best of all, they go on and off very easily.

Iíll probably stick with tubed tired on these wheels for the time being. Iím a little gunshy after being traumatized over these wheels.
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Old 04-23-20, 10:54 PM
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Subscribed. I really want to see if this gets resolved. You shouldnít have to pay a dime.
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Old 04-24-20, 08:31 AM
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Another thumbs up for the Kool Stop bead jack. The only disadvantage with using the Kool Stop tool is that my "swear jar" doesn't fill as rapidly!
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Old 04-24-20, 08:58 AM
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One thing I have done is to stretch new tubeless tires on an alloy wheel before installing on a carbon rim if the tire is tight. A few days on a non tubeless rim inflated using a tube (so you don't have to use sealant) will be enough.
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Old 04-24-20, 12:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Aww, what a bloody spew.

I always figured clincher rims are a damn tall order for carbon... for my first full carbon rims I went tubular. For clinchers, at least rim brake ones, I really like Shimano's RS80/81/Dura-Ace family. Yeah, they're pretty slow to get on the wide rim bandwagon, but the ally/carbon construction really does offer the best of both worlds I reckon.
You can always just use the Hed Jet Plus, for great prices and hybrid construction with wide beds.
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Old 04-24-20, 12:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Beach Bob View Post
2) I usually use Michelin Pro4s on my bikes.... they are an absolute ***** to pull over the rim lips. In my garage (and I do throw it in my jersey pocket if my wife isn't available for road side pick up) I use a Kool Stop bead jack (google it...use the vendor link of your choice...). Absolute miracle gadget for tough tires. When I burn out my supply of Michelin's I'll probably just to stick to Conti GP4k/5k in the future just because they do mount so much easier....
And this is why I've given up on using other people's feedback on tire mounting difficulty, because for me the P4s went on much more easily than GP4k/5ks.
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Old 04-24-20, 03:49 PM
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The sales manager from Canyon just called me to tell me Canyon will cover any labor associated with disassembling the bike (cassette and rotor removal). DT Swiss will be in charge of replacing the rim. Canyon said that if DT Swiss wants to charge me, they’ll work directly with DT Swiss to get it taken care of. So far, so good. FedEx just picked up the wheel.
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Old 04-24-20, 03:53 PM
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Glad Canyon is going to bat for you. Keep us posted.
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Old 04-24-20, 04:40 PM
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Ack! I have those rims and had the very hell of a time thumbing on a set of GP5000s. I had no idea they were that fragile, but I was hesitant to use a lever because I thought it might mar the finish and glad I didn't! Good luck and let us know.
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Old 04-25-20, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Glad Canyon is going to bat for you. Keep us posted.
Will do.

Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
Ack! I have those rims and had the very hell of a time thumbing on a set of GP5000s. I had no idea they were that fragile, but I was hesitant to use a lever because I thought it might mar the finish and glad I didn't! Good luck and let us know.
Yep, glad I could be the sacrificial lamb! Ha ha. They are incredible wheels though, arenít they? For the riding I do, which is mostly in the hills, they are unbelievable.
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Old 04-25-20, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Will do.



Yep, glad I could be the sacrificial lamb! Ha ha. They are incredible wheels though, arenít they? For the riding I do, which is mostly in the hills, they are unbelievable.
I have the 1400s. Same wheels with the 240-type hubs. Agree.
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Old 04-25-20, 11:48 AM
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Another vote for bead jack tool.
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Old 04-25-20, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Another vote for bead jack tool.
Do you guys take the tool with you when you ride?
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Old 04-25-20, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Do you guys take the tool with you when you ride?
I donít. Once a new tire is mounted, taking it off and remounting is slightly easier. Some people take the tool just in case but I prefer to travel light.
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Old 04-26-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
And this is why I've given up on using other people's feedback on tire mounting difficulty, because for me the P4s went on much more easily than GP4k/5ks.
Makes me wonder how many tough tire/rim combo's are out there.....obviously, it isn't just limited to a particular tire or rim.
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Old 04-26-20, 11:05 AM
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Originally Posted by justonwo View Post
Do you guys take the tool with you when you ride?
I don't carry mine but many who do cut down the handle to carry on the bike. A new tire in the dryer for a few makes it much easier to mount. No dryer? put the tire in a black trash bag and set in the sun.
It sounds to me like they have removed too much mass from the rim to try and make up for the extra weight of disk wheels.
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Old 04-30-20, 04:38 PM
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DT Swiss received the wheel today. Fingers crossed.
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Old 05-01-20, 11:17 AM
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DT Swiss replaced the rim on the wheel under warranty and the wheel is on its way back to me. This is great news.

My lesson learned here is simply not to use levers on carbon wheels. I have Zipp 303s on my other road bike and carbon wheels on my Epic and Camber. Using the little channel in the middle of the rim helps immensely with getting the tire onto the rim, but if I can't get it on by hand I just won't use those tires. Obviously, some carbon wheels are built more robustly than others, but these DT Swiss wheels are built specifically for minimal weight.
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