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Noob Bike Computer/Metrics Questions

Old 04-29-20, 04:03 PM
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Metallifan33
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Noob Bike Computer/Metrics Questions

So after 4 months and 1,100 miles of riding semi-blind (when it comes to metrics), I got my first bike computer yesterday (Garmin 530 with cadence, speed, and HR sensors).
I ride the same route every ride, so it was really cool to see the numbers in real time and match them to my perceived efforts.
I liked doing it this way (i.e. ride for a while before I got a computer), but I do wish I knew what numbers I started with.
I expected my cadence to be low (as I've just ridden what felt natural to me up to this point). It ended up being about 83 rpm (I guess it's where I'd expect to be?)
It did make me wonder about something though. The numbers (speed and cadence) were affected by my 15 minute-ish warm up (and stop lights).
When you guys look at your numbers, do you ignore the warm up period? (for example, for me, if I excluded my warm up, I think the average cadence would be more like 86 to 87 or so). I guess part of the issue is I only ride about an hour and a half at a time. I always notice that if I ride for 2 hours, my average speed is always higher (i.e. the warm up period is a smaller factor).





Second question is my cadence sensor comes really close to my shoe (and at times probably touches it). The instructions said to mount it facing outward, but do you think I should mount it facing inwards? Does it matter how high on the crank arm it is?





Thanks! I'll probably end up picking up a power meter in the fall (I opted to buy a Tacx Neo 2T instead to get me thru the summer)... Image below from this morning will tell you why




One last question. When I pair the sensors, some sensors appear twice. Is there a reason for this? In this pic, the speed sensor is duplicated.




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Old 04-29-20, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
It did make me wonder about something though. The numbers (speed and cadence) were affected by my 15 minute-ish warm up (and stop lights).
When you guys look at your numbers, do you ignore the warm up period?
I look at everything. And I also look at certain portions of my ride. I try not to over analyze and obsess over every bit of data. I'm mainly just looking for trends over several rides. I don't obsess if one ride didn't provide what I wanted to see. Truth hurts sometimes. <grin>

I use RideWithGPS.com for my data. Like many of the other sites, it lets you look at your data in various ways. I can pick a point on my route and drag out a selection and then just see the stats for the portion selected. I can also create a segment and save it, either private or public, and when I or anyone else with a public ride go over it, I can see what I and them have done on it. Also, whenever someone else has made a segment a made it public, then you'll get to see what you and other did on that too. Try not to use it just to go out and KOM everyone. Use it to base judgments on what you do or don't need to work on. Not everyone that goes over a segments with a public ride were even trying for a best time or even knew they were on a segment.

When new to using GPS's for cycling, I used the free accounts GarminConnect, RideWithGPS, Strava and MapMyRide concurrently for many months. Eventually RWGPS proved to be my most useful for me and I got a premium account.
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Old 04-29-20, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I look at everything. And I also look at certain portions of my ride. I try not to over analyze and obsess over every bit of data. I'm mainly just looking for trends over several rides. I don't obsess if one ride didn't provide what I wanted to see. Truth hurts sometimes. <grin>

I use RideWithGPS.com for my data. Like many of the other sites, it lets you look at your data in various ways. I can pick a point on my route and drag out a selection and then just see the stats for the portion selected. I can also create a segment and save it, either private or public, and when I or anyone else with a public ride go over it, I can see what I and them have done on it. Also, whenever someone else has made a segment a made it public, then you'll get to see what you and other did on that too. Try not to use it just to go out and KOM everyone. Use it to base judgments on what you do or don't need to work on. Not everyone that goes over a segments with a public ride were even trying for a best time or even knew they were on a segment.

When new to using GPS's for cycling, I used the free accounts GarminConnect, RideWithGPS, Strava and MapMyRide concurrently for many months. Eventually RWGPS proved to be my most useful for me and I got a premium account.
Cool thanks! I'll check it out.
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Old 04-29-20, 04:39 PM
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If I am doing a structured workout, I am only looking to see if I hit the target numbers. I might look at overall numbers, but I'm not that concerned about average speed or cadence. I have a couple of stretches of road that I'll use for structured workouts, depending on what I'm working on. I'll usually just use the ride over there as my warmup, and the ride back as my cool down. Nothing really structured.
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Old 04-29-20, 04:43 PM
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I believe the doubling is a result of it seeing both the Ant and BLE broadcasts. Generally, I prefer Ant for these things.

Also, please let us know how you like the Neo 2T - I am drooling over it if my Hammer ever dies. Rocker plate first, though.
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Old 04-29-20, 04:45 PM
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Oh and I almost never look at metrics across an entire ride. There are areas of interest, and those are often Strava segments and Strava allows looking at data just from each segment. Otherwise, I use lap, or manual selection of a range. I might be interested in a climb or a long straight, but not the warm-up or cool-down and not just transiting to areas of interest.
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Old 04-29-20, 07:33 PM
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Don’t obsess too much over the data unless you’re doing a structured workout and need to target a specific area. I only use cadence as a general indication of whether I’m mashing (RPM less than 80), spinning, or running at high RPM. I target 90 for the most part, but not to the point of paying much attention to it.

Of all the metrics I track, heart rate and power are the most important. If I’m doing a really long ride, I know how much time I can spend in each zone. If I’m training and targeting tempo, threshold, VO2 max, etc, heart rate and power are invaluable. I also use my computer to track my gears, which is a nice feature.

I don’t track speed at all, except that I generally hope my speed increases over time.

What you track and how closely you watch it depends entirely on what your goals are as a cyclist.
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Old 04-29-20, 07:41 PM
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"Second question is my cadence sensor comes really close to my shoe (and at times probably touches it). The instructions said to mount it facing outward, but do you think I should mount it facing inwards? Does it matter how high on the crank arm it is?"

Mount it inside the crank. You don't want to kick it off and lose it. Doesn't matter where on the length.
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Old 04-29-20, 11:18 PM
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Earth induction sensors like your cadence (and speed) sensor don't care whether the unit faces in or out. Just be careful of the clearance between crank and chain stay, or foot.

I'm not sure it's critical where it's mounted along the crank. I've used older magnet type cadence sensor (ANT+, mounted to the chain stay and crank) and a XOSS earth induction cadence sensor (set to Bluetooth, mounted on crank) to compare on the same ride. Results were comparable. There were more data glitches with the XOSS sensor, which also occurred when it was set t speed mode and wrapped around the hub. I don't know whether that's a quirk of that type of sensor. But it didn't affect the overall ride average or longer segments.
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Old 04-29-20, 11:23 PM
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I don't pay much attention to my warmup and cooldown. It takes me about 30 minutes to warm up, and I usually cruise through the neighborhoods on the way home for about 15 minutes to cool off. I don't crop that stuff out for Strava. I'm only concerned about segments of a mile to 10-30 miles after I'm warmed up -- assuming it's a workout or benchmark ride. If I'm just out for a casual ride I don't pay attention to the data, although I usually do record and upload it.

Same with rides that include a lot of suburban and urban areas with lots of stop signs and traffic lights. I don't blow through intersections like some folks do on group rides, so I'm always lagging behind and it affects the data depending on the auto-pause/resume threshold for the app or device.
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Old 04-30-20, 04:39 AM
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Use the lap functionality, Strava (I believe even in the free version since Analysis where you can see it does not fall under Summit on the webpage) will allow you to see speed, cadence, HR, and Power filtered by laps if you like. I only discovered this yesterday and it is so useful, especially for interval training. Although I guess if you do very short ones you end up pressing lap an awful lot but say you do 2 min on 1 min off 5 times for 3 sets, you can click on each lap and see if towards the end your 2 minute intervals still had the right power. Before I knew of laps I did that manually by highlighting each 2 minute period in Strava and noting the average, that took a long time and is surely more annoying than pressing lap every so often while riding.
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Old 04-30-20, 06:50 AM
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I don't look at my stats until the end of the ride. I consider the overall ride when comparing my rides (from start to beginning). Strava tells me when I did a PR or a KOM in one specific segment anyways . Keep in mind that you can use the lap function if you want to track your data for a specific portion of your ride.

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Old 04-30-20, 10:05 AM
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For me it's just power over different time periods.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by canklecat View Post
Earth induction sensors like your cadence (and speed) sensor don't care whether the unit faces in or out. Just be careful of the clearance between crank and chain stay, or foot.

I'm not sure it's critical where it's mounted along the crank. I've used older magnet type cadence sensor (ANT+, mounted to the chain stay and crank) and a XOSS earth induction cadence sensor (set to Bluetooth, mounted on crank) to compare on the same ride. Results were comparable. There were more data glitches with the XOSS sensor, which also occurred when it was set t speed mode and wrapped around the hub. I don't know whether that's a quirk of that type of sensor. But it didn't affect the overall ride average or longer segments.

I’m fairly certain that this Garmin sensor is not earth induction based but has a solid state gyroscope that is used to calculate the angular momentum of the device, and therefore the cadence. Probably the same type that is in up your smart phone. Anyway, same advice applies, it doesn’t matter where on the crank you mount it. The same applies for the Garmin speed sensor that wraps around the wheel hub.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:24 AM
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+1 for not caring about data unless it's for specific portions of a ride.

I believe you follow me on Strava, so you can analyze every aspect of my rides if you like. You'll notice that they are fairly polarized...that is to say I'm either "on it" or I'm not. If I want to see specific portions of my data, TrainingPeaks is what I use.

As far a cadence is concerned, that'll be something that develops as you get more miles in your legs. Cadence also changes based on terrain and fatigue, so don't feel the need to hold a steady cadence throughout the entire ride. Just do what feels efficient.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
If I am doing a structured workout, I am only looking to see if I hit the target numbers. I might look at overall numbers, but I'm not that concerned about average speed or cadence. I have a couple of stretches of road that I'll use for structured workouts, depending on what I'm working on. I'll usually just use the ride over there as my warmup, and the ride back as my cool down. Nothing really structured.
This is my perspective as well. And when racing, I don't look at my computer at all.

Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
As far a cadence is concerned, that'll be something that develops as you get more miles in your legs. Cadence also changes based on terrain and fatigue, so don't feel the need to hold a steady cadence throughout the entire ride. Just do what feels efficient.
This is also true. I remember when I first started riding, I frequently ave. 85 rpm. Going above 90 was quite challenging. Now, I can run 100+rpm all day.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by ZHVelo View Post
Use the lap functionality, Strava (I believe even in the free version since Analysis where you can see it does not fall under Summit on the webpage) will allow you to see speed, cadence, HR, and Power filtered by laps if you like. I only discovered this yesterday and it is so useful, especially for interval training. Although I guess if you do very short ones you end up pressing lap an awful lot but say you do 2 min on 1 min off 5 times for 3 sets, you can click on each lap and see if towards the end your 2 minute intervals still had the right power. Before I knew of laps I did that manually by highlighting each 2 minute period in Strava and noting the average, that took a long time and is surely more annoying than pressing lap every so often while riding.
ZHVelo, thanks for this! By lap, you mean I can hit the lap button on the Edge 530? I'll try this out. This sounds like a good way of breaking up the ride into segments.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
+1 for not caring about data unless it's for specific portions of a ride.

I believe you follow me on Strava, so you can analyze every aspect of my rides if you like. You'll notice that they are fairly polarized...that is to say I'm either "on it" or I'm not. If I want to see specific portions of my data, TrainingPeaks is what I use.

As far a cadence is concerned, that'll be something that develops as you get more miles in your legs. Cadence also changes based on terrain and fatigue, so don't feel the need to hold a steady cadence throughout the entire ride. Just do what feels efficient.
Thanks! Ignoring the warm up/cool down makes a lot more sense to me.
And actually I was wondering if I need to try and hold a more steady speed/cadence (when I look at my graphs, they look really "spiky"
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Old 04-30-20, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
ZHVelo, thanks for this! By lap, you mean I can hit the lap button on the Edge 530? I'll try this out. This sounds like a good way of breaking up the ride into segments.
Yeah, that button isn't for actual laps, it's for knowing your average heart rate (or whatever else) for a section of your ride. Segments kind of do the same thing, not your lap button works anywhere.
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Old 04-30-20, 10:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Yeah, that button isn't for actual laps, it's for knowing your average heart rate (or whatever else) for a section of your ride. Segments kind of do the same thing, not your lap button works anywhere.
Lol Thanks! I'm embarrassed to say that I was racking my brain trying to figure out how many people rode actual laps
I even wondered about it when I was watching GP Lama talk about disabling the "auto lap" feature on the Edge devices.
This makes a lot more sense
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Old 04-30-20, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
Thanks! Ignoring the warm up/cool down makes a lot more sense to me.
And actually I was wondering if I need to try and hold a more steady speed/cadence (when I look at my graphs, they look really "spiky"
Mine too

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Old 04-30-20, 11:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Mine too

Those are definitely not "rookie numbers"
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Old 04-30-20, 11:09 AM
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Yeah, "laps" isn't really the right word for it, but it's consistent with how you would use the function on a stopwatch. If you were using it at a track, you'd hit it when you completed a lap, but it's for breaking up the ride into any segment you want. For example, when I go out to do a 2x20' set:

Leave house: hit start
warm up/ride to the interval road
start first 20': hit lap
recovery: hit lap
second 20' hit lap
recovery, : hit lap
get home: hit end

So my workout file on Strava or TP will show five laps, but I only really care about two.


(That one had a short c/d because it was after work, I had driven to my interval road, and I was late for dinner.)
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Old 04-30-20, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
Lol Thanks! I'm embarrassed to say that I was racking my brain trying to figure out how many people rode actual laps
I even wondered about it when I was watching GP Lama talk about disabling the "auto lap" feature on the Edge devices.
This makes a lot more sense
The reason to disable the auto lap feature is because otherwise it will create a new "lap" whenever you happen to go past the same spot again, which can be annoying.
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Old 04-30-20, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Metallifan33 View Post
ZHVelo, thanks for this! By lap, you mean I can hit the lap button on the Edge 530? I'll try this out. This sounds like a good way of breaking up the ride into segments.
I assume so, maybe someone can confirm, on my wahoo it works that way, should be the same on Garmin.
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