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GP5000 tubeless vs Gatorskins or other?

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GP5000 tubeless vs Gatorskins or other?

Old 05-17-20, 07:24 AM
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luke87
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GP5000 tubeless vs Gatorskins or other?

Iím currently using gator skins but would like a little more performance. I do need some puncture protection as thereís always glass on the road I take to work. Whatís everyoneís thoughts on choice of tyre?
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Old 05-17-20, 07:36 AM
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noodle soup
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Originally Posted by luke87 View Post
Iím currently using gator skins but would like a little more performance. I do need some puncture protection as thereís always glass on the road I take to work. Whatís everyoneís thoughts on choice of tyre?
the difference between those tires is night and day. If the punctures you get are from thorns or bits of wire, GP5000 tubeless will work fine, but if you get lots of small cuts from glass or other road debris, things might get expensive.
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Old 05-17-20, 08:28 AM
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Combo option.. tubeless sealing and protection, the Pirelli Cinturatos are supposed to be good.. and probably a bit faster.
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Old 05-17-20, 11:12 AM
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Almost any tire you can find will perform better than Gatorskins.

Grand Prix 4 Seasons are somewhere in the middle, they're me to be more durable than race tires. I've never used them, I found regular GP4Ks didn't flat often, and a tubeless system flats very rarely. In the conditions I ride in.
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Old 05-17-20, 11:48 AM
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I'm almost always in favor of try and see. If you get a lot of flats and the improved ride and performance aren't there for the type riding you do, then you can always go back. Don't give up immediately on the first flat though. Figure out if it was user error or unfortunate one time circumstance.
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Old 05-17-20, 12:14 PM
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Glass isn't good for any tire - can you take a different route without adding too significantly to your commute? Are you comfortable enough to ride further in to the lane where there's less debris?

Otherwise, you're probably just going to have to try, though I'd be wary of going tubeless if cuts 1/4" or so and larger are a regular occurrence.
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Old 05-17-20, 06:54 PM
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How much puncture protection do you need? Even GP5Ks have a puncture belt that IME works well against glass, especially if you check them after rides to see if there are any embedded slivers. Something like the old Miichelin P4E would be ideal, which had a full bead-to-bead belt, but they changed it to a model with a center-only belt, like the Contis.

If you can afford the money and risk of a flat to try some better tires, almost anything will roll better than a Gatorskin.
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Old 05-17-20, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Something like the old Miichelin P4E would be ideal, which had a full bead-to-bead belt, but they changed it to a model with a center-only belt, like the Contis.
They are still available. I recently picked up a pair of 28c from Wiggle in the UK. Price wasn't outrageous and free shipping that made it to the middle of nowhere NM in 4 days including the weekend.
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Old 05-17-20, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
How much puncture protection do you need? Even GP5Ks have a puncture belt that IME works well against glass, especially if you check them after rides to see if there are any embedded slivers. Something like the old Miichelin P4E would be ideal, which had a full bead-to-bead belt, but they changed it to a model with a center-only belt, like the Contis.

If you can afford the money and risk of a flat to try some better tires, almost anything will roll better than a Gatorskin.
Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires are a great tubed tire. The Michelin Power Endurance is the replacement. If I was forced to run tubed tires again, Michelins would be my first choice.
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Old 05-17-20, 08:50 PM
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IMHO, commuting is not the place to be looking for performance. Unless you are your own boss and don't really care about being delayed on your way to work, reliability and flat protection are more important. Also, for many of us, commuting is a ride where we're not seeking maximum speed - who wants to arrive at work soaked in sweat? So I'd say Gatorskins are the right tire for your commuter.

But if you want something with better performance, why jump all the way to GP5000s? Why not choose something in the middle (not the best rolling tire, but also real good flat protection). e.g., Conti GP Four seasons or the Michelin Pros mentioned by others.
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Old 05-18-20, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires are a great tubed tire. The Michelin Power Endurance is the replacement. If I was forced to run tubed tires again, Michelins would be my first choice.
Yes but the PE doesn't have the reinforced sidewalls of the P4E, which is why I was pointing the OP that direction.
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Old 05-18-20, 11:15 AM
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hmmm. I have Gators on one bike, and GP4000's on another. The gators went on the 'hill bike' because I went thru a bad run of flats for a while and the roads in that 'more hilly direction' just get increasingly more trashy as you go. While I hear a lot of posters posting negative points on gators, I don't notice the difference that much. True, I can tell which tires I'm on, but they don't bum me out the way some people describe it, they're fine. I'd rather ride Gators with no wind than ride some finer tire with a headwind, any day. My wife was going thru a nasty string of flats for a while on some nice Vittorias (which I do recommend), so we switched her to Gatorskins and she hasn't has a flat since. Now, that's very circumstantial, but Gators are more resistant to threats, period.

I think the bigger question is about "what are you risking?" ... for instance, if a flat is going to make me badly late for work, well, then, I want more protection. If a flat means that I have to walk my bike across the park to my car, I'll take the silky ride. Think about your conditions and your 'cost of trouble' and then you probably know what makes sense for you.
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Old 05-18-20, 03:26 PM
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Thanks everyone. I think il just stick with gatorskins. Seems the benefits out weigh the loss on performance.
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Old 05-18-20, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by luke87 View Post
Thanks everyone. I think il just stick with gatorskins. Seems the benefits out weigh the loss on performance.
I use the 4 seasons, and add 2 oz. of orange seal into each tube. they are bullet proof, and ride and handle better than gatorskins IMHO. the 4 seasons tend to last about 4000 miles on the front and 2-3000 on the rear, and also work pretty well on the trainer.
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Old 05-18-20, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires are a great tubed tire. The Michelin Power Endurance is the replacement. If I was forced to run tubed tires again, Michelins would be my first choice.
I second this. Michelin Pro4 Endurance V2 on a 1000km trip, no punctures considering I was backpacking so there was ~ +20kg on the back tire. Road was dodgy sometimes with glass and potholes at speed. YMMV but excellent tire for me.
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Old 05-19-20, 12:28 AM
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Originally Posted by veselatakurabii View Post
I second this. Michelin Pro4 Endurance V2 on a 1000km trip, no punctures considering I was backpacking so there was ~ +20kg on the back tire. Road was dodgy sometimes with glass and potholes at speed. YMMV but excellent tire for me.
I just looked at a comparison chart of the two. Itís shows them being near identical. I tried to share it, but I canít put attachments on until I have done ten posts. Do you think they got it wrong?
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Old 05-19-20, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by luke87 View Post
Do you think they got it wrong?
Not sure what the conclusion of that comparison is and I really cant offer you experience as I have never had the Power Endurance. You could look at a great website I very often use as a guide:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...urance-v2-2015

Based on this the Power Endurance is 15 grams lighter than the Pro 4 v2, slightly higher rolling resistance and worse puncture resistance. I would go Pro 4 v2 based on that.
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Old 05-19-20, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by luke87 View Post
I just looked at a comparison chart of the two. Itís shows them being near identical. I tried to share it, but I canít put attachments on until I have done ten posts. Do you think they got it wrong?
The Power Endurance is often referenced as a 'replacement' to the Pro4 Endurance, but from what I can tell, the Pro4E never left Michelin's lineup and is still marketed and sold today..
https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...ro4-endurance/
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Old 05-19-20, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Michelin Pro4 Endurance tires are a great tubed tire. The Michelin Power Endurance is the replacement. If I was forced to run tubed tires again, Michelins would be my first choice.
+1. I had bought a set of Pro4 Endurance for my Defy after a few flats on the original P-SL1 tires and they were great.

Never liked Gatorskins.

Last edited by eduskator; 05-19-20 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 05-19-20, 07:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Yes but the PE doesn't have the reinforced sidewalls of the P4E, which is why I was pointing the OP that direction.
Yes but when did I recommend the Power Endurance over the Pro4 E. I'd take a Krylion2 Endurance, over a Power Endurance if we are just talking about durability.

I'm sure I sound like a total D-Bag for splitting hairs.
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Old 05-19-20, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by luke87 View Post
I just looked at a comparison chart of the two. Itís shows them being near identical. I tried to share it, but I canít put attachments on until I have done ten posts. Do you think they got it wrong?
Originally Posted by veselatakurabii View Post
Not sure what the conclusion of that comparison is and I really cant offer you experience as I have never had the Power Endurance. You could look at a great website I very often use as a guide:

https://www.bicyclerollingresistance...urance-v2-2015

Based on this the Power Endurance is 15 grams lighter than the Pro 4 v2, slightly higher rolling resistance and worse puncture resistance. I would go Pro 4 v2 based on that.
Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
The Power Endurance is often referenced as a 'replacement' to the Pro4 Endurance, but from what I can tell, the Pro4E never left Michelin's lineup and is still marketed and sold today..
https://bike.michelin.com/en/product...ro4-endurance/
If you can find the Pro4 E V2 in the size you want, buy it.

If not, the Krylion 2 Endurance feels like the same tire.

The Power Endurance is a more supple tire, but it lacks the durability of the Pro4 E or Krylion2 E.
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Old 05-19-20, 08:27 PM
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I used Gatorskins for many years and didn't complain. Then maybe 7yr ago or so I switched to gp4k. Wow the ride was so much better.
I didn't really notice a difference in tread puncture flats which I got rarely anyway, but the gp4k were much more susceptible to sidewall damage, little cuts large enough to let the tube push thru eventually and bust.
No idea about gp5k

The suggestion to ride into the road away from debris field is good.
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Old 05-19-20, 09:19 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Yes but when did I recommend the Power Endurance over the Pro4 E. I'd take a Krylion2 Endurance, over a Power Endurance if we are just talking about durability.

I'm sure I sound like a total D-Bag for splitting hairs.
It's not just the splitting hairs.

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Old 05-20-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Yes but when did I recommend the Power Endurance over the Pro4 E. I'd take a Krylion2 Endurance, over a Power Endurance if we are just talking about durability.

I'm sure I sound like a total D-Bag for splitting hairs.
What you sound like is a reminder of why I hate companies that change their branding every few years so I have no idea WTF is in the box in front of me.
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Old 05-20-20, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
Almost any tire you can find will perform better than Gatorskins.

Grand Prix 4 Seasons are somewhere in the middle, they're me to be more durable than race tires. I've never used them, I found regular GP4Ks didn't flat often, and a tubeless system flats very rarely. In the conditions I ride in.
With Gatorskins I used to flat occasionally. It was almost always from goatheads. One time I had five punctures from goatheads all on the same ride. I'm sure the tires were durable, but goatheads are so sharp, and so sturdy, there's not much that can be done to prevent them puncturing a tire.

With GP4000 and GP4000sII I also managed to succumb to goathead punctures. These tires were definitely better performing than Gatorskins but also more fragile.

With GP5000 I have had very good luck so far; about 1200 flat-free miles. (Road bike)

With GP4Season I've had one flat in about 1500 miles. (Hybrid)

I think I've only ever had one flat from glass, and one from a sharp metal object in many years of riding. All the rest of my many flats have been goatheads. I think the best solution, if you live in goathead country (which seems to be just about everywhere I've been) is a tire that auto-seals; so tubeless with appropriate sealant in them, or if you must use tires with tubes (as I do), you could probably put in the green goop. I refuse to do that, though -- not in tubes used in expensive tires on a nice bike.
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