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Road Tires

Old 06-18-20, 05:37 AM
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CyclingFool95 
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Road Tires

I've been running Gatorskins on most of my wheelsets but have Diamante Pros on a set of Neutrons and Conti GP4000S IIs on another set of wheels. I typically run 23s at around 100-110 psi, and not planning on changing that.

I'm looking to pick up a set or two of GP5000s or similar. The big question is, based on looking on reviews/test/forums, is there any reason to even consider anything but the 5000s? Especially since the GP5000s are no more expensive and generally even a little cheaper. Pirellis seem to have slightly better cut resistance but dont roll quite as well. Comparable Vittorias are light but dont wear at all well, and seem to cut easily (not that I've had any issue with mine). etc... Anyone have any thoughts?
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Old 06-18-20, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by CyclingFool95 View Post
I've been running Gatorskins on most of my wheelsets but have Diamante Pros on a set of Neutrons and Conti GP4000S IIs on another set of wheels.

I'm looking to pick up a set or two of GP5000s or similar.
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Old 06-18-20, 05:58 AM
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I switched to the GP5000s not long after they came out and I needed to replace my road bike tires. I like them from a grip and speed point of view, about average in durability - but I did get two flats vs. zero on the R3s I had on before them. So, I'm don't give them high marks on flat prevention.

I'm not a racer - the entire year's worth of speed gain by faster tires gets wiped out by one roadside tire repair. I'll probably go back to the Schwalbe Marathon's I was using for years before going for lower rolling resistance tires - actually have never flatted on those and got many more miles out of them.
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Old 06-18-20, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by jpescatore View Post

I'm not a racer - the entire year's worth of speed gain by faster tires gets wiped out by one roadside tire repair. .
You might be surprised.

I'm spitballing here and don't remember exactly, but I believe that the general difference in rolling resistance between a pair of gatorskins vs. something like GP4000s was significant enough that it was still faster to flat and change the tube on the GP4000s than it was to not flat and ride the gatorskins over the course of an IM 112 mile bike leg. Something in the realm of 3-4 minutes or so.

And that's just 112 miles.
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Old 06-18-20, 12:14 PM
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I'm sold on Michelin tires. The new power endurance is puncture resistant, supple and extremely long wearing. There are several other models with different properties that might have more appeal.
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Old 06-19-20, 04:54 AM
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just for fun I played with the numbers from bicyclerollingresistance.com after they tested the GP 5000s. With a reasonable set of assumptions, using bikecalculator.com, over a 3000 mile year the power savings resulted in about 110 minutes of time saving compared the Schwalbes. Yes, my average time to change a tire is under an hour and a half - so with brand new tires on dry roads with no sand or gravel sections I could say the watts saving reduced my time.

But, the tires wear, at least 20% my riding is on wet, gritty or in other ways even worse than the realistic rollers the testers are now using! For me, having no roadside repairs won the tradeoff.

Now, the funny thing with the two flats I have had on the GP 5000 - they were both "polite flats" that just caused slow leaks and I didn't even notice them until the next ride. So, I still haven't had any roadside repairs! Both flats looked to be shards of radial tire or other very thin wire that got to the tube - couldn't even see the tire puncture from the inside.

One of the flats was on the front - I can't even remember the last time I flatted on the front. That one could have been an outlier: It kinda looked like the wire shard got through right at the diagonal seam (you can see it on the inside) where the tire ends are joined to form a circle. The wear indicators on that tire still show plenty of life - the flat on the rear was with the wear dimples almost gone.

I inspect the tires after ever ride - the GP 5000s definitely get more little gashes than the Schwalbes ever do and I've removed metal bits and shards before but nothing ever penetrated before these.

Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You might be surprised.

I'm spitballing here and don't remember exactly, but I believe that the general difference in rolling resistance between a pair of gatorskins vs. something like GP4000s was significant enough that it was still faster to flat and change the tube on the GP4000s than it was to not flat and ride the gatorskins over the course of an IM 112 mile bike leg. Something in the realm of 3-4 minutes or so.

And that's just 112 miles.
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Old 06-19-20, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by CyclingFool95 View Post
I've been running Gatorskins on most of my wheelsets but have Diamante Pros on a set of Neutrons and Conti GP4000S IIs on another set of wheels. I typically run 23s at around 100-110 psi, and not planning on changing that.

I'm looking to pick up a set or two of GP5000s or similar. The big question is, based on looking on reviews/test/forums, is there any reason to even consider anything but the 5000s? Especially since the GP5000s are no more expensive and generally even a little cheaper. Pirellis seem to have slightly better cut resistance but dont roll quite as well. Comparable Vittorias are light but dont wear at all well, and seem to cut easily (not that I've had any issue with mine). etc... Anyone have any thoughts?
I have been running the GP5000s since they came out. Usual paved roads (great sections at times but a lot are typical DOT crap with pot holes and uneven rough areas). No issues yet but never rule it out. Fast? Yep. Tacky to the road? Yep. Low rolling resistance? Not sure as I am not a tire engineer, but they feel as good as any Conti I have run in the past.

Flats I do believe for a majority of the time are results of your roads and not a majority of the time tire failure or faulty tires might I say. I understand you have to pick a tire best suited for your riding area also. I guess I dont have the best roads but certainly not the worst either.

Do I recommend the GP5000s? Sure do. YMMV however and usually does from rider to rider.
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Old 06-20-20, 05:36 AM
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The bicyclerollingresistance review here gave the GP5000s a great rating, one of the reasons I went with them. But, they did have the caveat that they were less puncture-resistant than the 4000s:
Continental also claims puncture resistance has increased by 20%. Unfortunately, our tests indicate that puncture resistance of the GP 5000 has gone down when compared to the GP 4000. In both the tread and sidewall puncture tests, the GP 5000 scores 1 point less and comes in at a tread puncture score of 10 points and a sidewall puncture score of 4 points.

A lower rolling resistance while at the same time providing a better puncture resistance sounded too good to be true. After performing the rolling resistance tests, and noticing the lower rolling resistance, I didn't think it would be possible to also improve puncture resistance but hoped it would at least be equal. Finding out it scores 1 point less did disappoint me as it makes the lower rolling resistance a little bit less exciting.
That kinda rings true with my experience.
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Old 06-20-20, 06:48 AM
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I was a Michelin rider for many years. However, the puncture resistance of the new Power models (Endurance & Comp) is not very good in my experience. I've been riding the GP5000's this year (~3000 miles) with very good results. I don't plan on changing back.
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Old 06-20-20, 10:32 AM
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Ive used gatorskins and 4000s. Gatorskins do feel more hefty and there is a slight resistance favor toward the 4000s.

my current bike has Pirelli pzero nero. As Im getting more confident in them, they are significantly faster and more grippy.
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Old 06-20-20, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Clipped_in View Post
I was a Michelin rider for many years. However, the puncture resistance of the new Power models (Endurance & Comp) is not very good in my experience. I've been riding the GP5000's this year (~3000 miles) with very good results. I don't plan on changing back.
Yes it appears there is still no magic tyre. The trade off between durability/ puncture resistance and rolling resistance is still very much real. Not surprising considering the best tyres are still cotton and rubber, and anti puncture measures is still made from nylon and Kevlar and such. All materials developed decades ago. No wonder reports of cuts and sidewall blowouts are still common with the fastest available tyres.
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Old 06-20-20, 09:49 PM
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I feel like GP5000s are mainly for very smooth, nice tarmac, especially the 25s. If you use your bike for anything other than pristine road riding, the GP 5000s I feel would be more susceptible to punctures.
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Old 06-21-20, 12:35 AM
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Weirdly, i come at it from an angle where GP5000s are MORE robust tires - after riding Veloflex Corsas, Vittoria Evo Corsa tubs, Michelin Pros and now Turbo Cottons.

Try the Specialized S-Works Turbo. It is a little more puncture resistant (nowhere close to Gatorskin territory, but nowhere near as depression-inducing either), but still quite a nicely rolling tire.
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Old 06-21-20, 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted by facetoface View Post
I feel like GP5000s are mainly for very smooth, nice tarmac, especially the 25s. If you use your bike for anything other than pristine road riding, the GP 5000s I feel would be more susceptible to punctures.
I assure you where I ride the tarmac is not pristine and my GP5000s in 23 size are running great.
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Old 06-28-20, 01:24 PM
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I was all set to pull the trigger on a pair of GP5000s when I sliced the sidewall on my 4000s II back tire today. Not a big slice, maybe .030" but enough to give me a slow flat and mandate a Cliff Shot wrapper boot. Sigh. I found a couple of pairs of new yellow 3000s (one of 20s, the other of 23s) in my bike closet the other day. Gonna see if they're still usable and use them up. Otherwise, I'm thinking I stick with the Gastorskins.

The sidewalls of the 4000s remind me of the Michelins I used to ride in the early 90s until I got a 1" slice and had to limp home for 50 miles with a powerbar wrapper boot. I switched to the original Conti GPs and never had an issue. You could slice up the sidewalls and have threads sticking out fo the sidewall and they would just keep on going. Never lost one to a sidewall cut. I used to square off the rears pretty fast - that's what comes of 700x20 tires at 150 psi - and have to rotate tires often but it was worth it.
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Old 06-30-20, 03:23 PM
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In the last 4 weeks, I logged over 2000km on the 5000's (25mm on 19mm internal width rims, latex tubes). I've honestly been pretty happy so far. This is coming off the 4000's which looked ridiculous in 25mm (28mm REAL width??). Overall handling has improved, and they are as quick as you'd expect them to be.

Durability wise, I'm starting to see the rear flatten out a bit (74kg rider), but the tread depth meters seem to suggest there's decent life left. I had one thumbtack pierce through into the tube, and a few shards of glass penetrate the outer carcass but no flat. I'm up in Montreal, Canada, where the roads are less road, and more 'hole', if that makes sense? At any rate, they're terrible, and so a big thumbs up from me for these tires and their successful life on the bike thus far.

The rear wear as mentioned has me on the hunt for prospective new rubber. I'm hard pressed to find a better tire TBH, but I'd like something with a tan wall. Vittoria's are great, but their lifespan can be cut short, no pun intended. We're also very limited with what we can get here locally in Canada, so I'm struggling on that front, as well.
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Old 06-30-20, 04:46 PM
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GP 5000's are a heck of a tire. I run them on 3 different bikes and have not experienced any issues. Also will note all 3 sets have run true to size. Of course, your mileage may vary.
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Old 06-30-20, 10:18 PM
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I would love to ride on the GP5000's. They are great tires. I had them for awhile and they rode like a dream except too many flats. In my area unfortunately there is an abundance of crap on the neglected roads and as a bonus goatheads. I ride on Gatorskins now and the flats are few and far between. I found that you can have a sweet ride or protection from flats, you can't have both.
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Old 07-01-20, 12:23 AM
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"The big question is, based on looking on reviews/test/forums, is there any reason to even consider anything but the 5000s?"

I happily use GP5000s with supersonic tubes (which are halfway there between a latex tube and a light butyl tube in rolling resistance), and I count on about a puncture every 2500km or so riding on roads of various quality. However, all the top shelf tires are really really good; the difference between a GP5000 and a Specialized Turbo Cotton (also tube type) is in tests something like 0.4W; this is the sort of grey area where the quality of the particular individual tire on test and the way the tire interacts with the test surface (because a steel drum is not the same as tarmac) could very well change the actual result on the road, and the differences are so minute that if you rode one and the other with a power meter on a road several times, you wouldn't really be able to pick up the difference because measuring equipment error and wind variations would eat up the required precision. I wouldn't put much stock in very small differences measured on drum tests.

Cheap tires or puncture resistant tires seem like a total waste of time / effort / money, though, in my book, though, unless all that matters is reliability alone.

I avoid "tubeless ready" tires because I'm not interested in tubeless, and using tubeless tires with tubes is a "worst of both worlds" combination as it means extra weight and you're not getting them on or off the rims as easily when you do have a flat.

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Old 07-01-20, 04:03 AM
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I have used Conti's, 4000 and 5000 tires for some time now and they are great, no doubt. However I have recently switched to using Vittoria Corsa Graphene 2.0 tires and WOW! These are really nice tires and feel just as supple as my tubulars, IMHO.
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Old 07-01-20, 04:14 AM
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I was ordering from Merlin anyway so I picked up a couple pairs of Schwalbe One V-Guard Evolution tires - came out to around the same cost as one pair of GP5000s. Compared to a GP4000s II, rolling resistance is just about the same. And, shown below, not quite as good as the GP5000 but still much better than the Gatorskins.

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Old 07-02-20, 06:42 AM
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Anyone have any thoughts (from actual use) on these Schwalbe One V-Guard Evolutions tires? Gotta love the Covid world (and Merlin's mandatory expedited shipping) - for my $26 shipping, my box from Merlin showed up in less than 2 days. These tires do look pretty nice and seem reasonably flexible on the sidewalls. I'll be mounting up the 23s for my weekend riding but I'm considering buying another two pairs given the price and the online reviews I was able to find.

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Old 07-02-20, 08:54 AM
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I've always run the 4000s because I haven't gotten a flat even though my LBS likes to sell gatorskins more. I've tried those but I don't like the ride.

When the new bike comes in I will probably switch over to 5000s once the stock tires wear out, which is what a lot of my riding group would recommend.
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Old 07-02-20, 09:55 AM
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Gatorskins are the tires you give to your ex as an exercise in vindictiveness.

Choose to live, my friends. Say no to Gatorskins.
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Old 07-02-20, 09:57 AM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
Gatorskins are the tires you give to your ex as an exercise in vindictiveness.

Choose to live, my friends. Say no to Gatorskins.
LOL

They're not really that bad, although I've been noticing the odd road noises you get out of them compared to the GPs. I'd suspect they're no worse than the original model Grand Prix tires I rode in the early 90s.
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