A Bike is a Bike
07-17-20, 08:29 AM
#51
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For those saying a bike is a bike, how much money did you spend on yours? Unless you spent the least of anyone on this board, then by your own definition, you spent too much.
IMO, a bike is a bike until we need more bike. There are certain things you can't achieve without a certain kind of bike. Just because many people have too much bike for what they need doesn't mean a bike is a bike.
IMO, a bike is a bike until we need more bike. There are certain things you can't achieve without a certain kind of bike. Just because many people have too much bike for what they need doesn't mean a bike is a bike.
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07-17-20, 08:30 AM
#52
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I would also be very curious about the power discrepancy. I built a gravel bike with 99% identical geometry to my road bike. With 38mm Teravail Cannonballs, I am about 1-2mph slower at 200w on pavement. I reckon quite a bit of that is due to the tires, and maybe some small aero position changes.
07-17-20, 08:34 AM
#53
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I would also be very curious about the power discrepancy. I built a gravel bike with 99% identical geometry to my road bike. With 38mm Teravail Cannonballs, I am about 1-2mph slower at 200w on pavement. I reckon quite a bit of that is due to the tires, and maybe some small aero position changes.
Have you.. can you.. swap out to the road rubber for a comparison? Rubber is huge for rolling resistance.. I do roll out tests. Biggest issue is rubber.
07-17-20, 08:36 AM
#54
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I haven't--though that would be the logical next step. I only have one wheelset like this, so it wouldn't be terribly convenient to change back and forth.
07-17-20, 08:50 AM
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I would also be very curious about the power discrepancy. I built a gravel bike with 99% identical geometry to my road bike. With 38mm Teravail Cannonballs, I am about 1-2mph slower at 200w on pavement. I reckon quite a bit of that is due to the tires, and maybe some small aero position changes.
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07-17-20, 09:45 AM
#56
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A few years ago I was in the LBS, the owner a too notch frame builder. I had a new to me vintage steel bike that I had just rehabbed. I was telling the owner just how amazing the bike rode. His response, "its got handlebars, pedals, wheels...it should ride well." Translation, a bike is a bike.
Two weeks ago I was out on a ride and joined in with a group. They were from a neighborhood that I once lived in, so we had some commonality. I was on another vintage steel bike. One of the guys quipped, "you do pretty well for being in an old bike." My response was, "to me a bike is a bike".
On flat terrain I cant imagine there is a difference in how my power is being delivered to drive the bike compared to a modern bike. And at the speeds we were riding, very little disadvantage to an old steel bike. On a hill, maybe I have a slight disadvantage with being on a heavier bike. Anyway I find it an interesting perception that a grand old steel bike would put me at a disadvantage or hinder my riding in some way.
In my youth there was an old timer that would show up to track races on his vintage track bike with inch pitch chain. And road races he had an older bike that looked antiquated compared to what everyone else was riding. But the guy had amazing endurance and speed. Not to mention some crafty moves and tactics. He was never to be discounted and often "stole" a prime ir two in a race.
Whats your perception? Is the bike a large part of the equation or is it a tool that is more or less equivalent from one to the other?
Two weeks ago I was out on a ride and joined in with a group. They were from a neighborhood that I once lived in, so we had some commonality. I was on another vintage steel bike. One of the guys quipped, "you do pretty well for being in an old bike." My response was, "to me a bike is a bike".
On flat terrain I cant imagine there is a difference in how my power is being delivered to drive the bike compared to a modern bike. And at the speeds we were riding, very little disadvantage to an old steel bike. On a hill, maybe I have a slight disadvantage with being on a heavier bike. Anyway I find it an interesting perception that a grand old steel bike would put me at a disadvantage or hinder my riding in some way.
In my youth there was an old timer that would show up to track races on his vintage track bike with inch pitch chain. And road races he had an older bike that looked antiquated compared to what everyone else was riding. But the guy had amazing endurance and speed. Not to mention some crafty moves and tactics. He was never to be discounted and often "stole" a prime ir two in a race.
Whats your perception? Is the bike a large part of the equation or is it a tool that is more or less equivalent from one to the other?
07-17-20, 10:03 AM
#57
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I've had a bike
- with such poor brakes that skidding was impossible
- one that was super heavy
- one with straight bars that made my wrists hurt in a few miles
- one that was so steep and stiff that it was difficult to ride any distance
- a couple so slack that turning was a chore
- one cursed with malevolent spirits that will not stay in tune
So no, don't agree. Maybe what was meant was that bikes that are pretty much the same are pretty much the same,
or that the LBS owner was sick of hearing about magical qualities attributed to bikes.
- with such poor brakes that skidding was impossible
- one that was super heavy
- one with straight bars that made my wrists hurt in a few miles
- one that was so steep and stiff that it was difficult to ride any distance
- a couple so slack that turning was a chore
- one cursed with malevolent spirits that will not stay in tune
So no, don't agree. Maybe what was meant was that bikes that are pretty much the same are pretty much the same,
or that the LBS owner was sick of hearing about magical qualities attributed to bikes.
07-17-20, 10:45 AM
#58
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I remember Lance Armstrong saying: "It's not about the bike". I think that in his head or under his breath he was saying: 'It's about the dope you use and how good it is'.
Different bikes and/or different wheels/tires can make a BIG difference in how a bike feels. There must be a number of reasons besides expense, for why pro riders and even some higher category amateur riders have 'training days wheels' and 'race days wheels'.
When I got my Miele Equipe Pro (Dura Ace Index shifting & aero brake levers & tubular wheels) around 1986 or 1987, the first thing I thought on the first long steep hill I encountered was, "This bike climbs like a homesick angel".
Even today, if I put the tubular wheels on ANY of my road bikes I notice acceleration is faster, maintaining speed is easier and climbing is a LOT easier.
Cheers
Different bikes and/or different wheels/tires can make a BIG difference in how a bike feels. There must be a number of reasons besides expense, for why pro riders and even some higher category amateur riders have 'training days wheels' and 'race days wheels'.
When I got my Miele Equipe Pro (Dura Ace Index shifting & aero brake levers & tubular wheels) around 1986 or 1987, the first thing I thought on the first long steep hill I encountered was, "This bike climbs like a homesick angel".
Even today, if I put the tubular wheels on ANY of my road bikes I notice acceleration is faster, maintaining speed is easier and climbing is a LOT easier.
Cheers
07-17-20, 12:51 PM
#59
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That's why I got my first extra set of wheels, even though they were just as crappy as the ones I raced on.
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07-17-20, 02:28 PM
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07-17-20, 04:12 PM
#63
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Life is to short not to ride what ever you choose to throw a leg over... who is to say what crap is? not me...
and to a point a bike is just a bike.... a car is just a car... and a forum post is just a forum post...
and to a point a bike is just a bike.... a car is just a car... and a forum post is just a forum post...
07-17-20, 04:35 PM
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Which is why all the pros ride '60's vintage Schwinn bikes.
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07-17-20, 06:04 PM
#66
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Bikes aren't bikes. For example, with a rider on a recumbent, it's much harder to pat them on the bum when they're riding next to you.
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07-17-20, 06:40 PM
#67
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i think i get the point of this thread : people put too much emphasis on the trends, there is too much vanity in possessing the fastest lightest and most expensive bicycle and everybody forgets about riding and getting better and squeezing all the juice from what they aldeady have.
07-17-20, 08:00 PM
#68
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i think i get the point of this thread : people put too much emphasis on the trends, there is too much vanity in possessing the fastest lightest and most expensive bicycle and everybody forgets about riding and getting better and squeezing all the juice from what they aldeady have.
strong cyclist with whatever bikes
strong cyclists with expensive bikes
show-offs
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07-18-20, 12:42 AM
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i think i get the point of this thread : people put too much emphasis on the trends, there is too much vanity in possessing the fastest lightest and most expensive bicycle and everybody forgets about riding and getting better and squeezing all the juice from what they aldeady have.
I'm only 4.53w/kg now and while that means I could improve, lose more weight etc, at over 50 I have steadily declining performance levels anyway compared to my peak decades ago. Nowadays, while still very competitive, I choose to enjoy a large pizza post ride sometimes and resting an extra day between harder efforts. It means I'm not making the absolute most of my potential, sure, but that's my choice and I'm entitled to it, as you are yours. However, I still want to do well and I can afford great bikes so despite the naysayers such as your good self, I'll spend my own money how I want and tough, sucks to be you if you are beaten by someone like me who gained a few extra watts for 'free'.
07-18-20, 01:00 AM
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Plenty of very average riders at my Club have top-of-the-range machines and we all admire the bikes - so what? It's their money. No different to those who buy Ferrari's, Porsches or expensive watches, clothes or more expensive food than they need.
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07-18-20, 02:02 AM
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Correct
A bike is a bike, up to a point. There have been huge QoL improvements over the years. Integrated shifting is a huge improvement over downtube shifters. Braking technology has improved, which makes speed modulation easier and descents safer. Power meters have allowed those of us who aren't genetically gifted squeeze any possible performance gains out of our body through training. Improved aerodynamics have a measurable impact in time over the same distance vs a standard frame w/ all round tubes.
Different people will benefit differently from items in the list above. Some from all of them (if they're a racer, for example), some none of them (if they're the type that just goes out and rides w/o a care in the world). But you can't say that bike technology hasn't improved for the positive.
Different people will benefit differently from items in the list above. Some from all of them (if they're a racer, for example), some none of them (if they're the type that just goes out and rides w/o a care in the world). But you can't say that bike technology hasn't improved for the positive.
07-18-20, 09:44 AM
#73
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A bike is a bike plain and simple. That doesn't say that some bikes aren't better for the purpose the rider intends for them. But still a bike is a BIKE!
Until you define a purpose for something an object is the object it is. If you ask me for a hammer and I didn't know what you were doing, I'd have to ask you what kind of hammer. But even a hammer is a hammer.
Until you define a purpose for something an object is the object it is. If you ask me for a hammer and I didn't know what you were doing, I'd have to ask you what kind of hammer. But even a hammer is a hammer.
Last edited by Iride01; 07-18-20 at 02:22 PM.
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07-18-20, 04:01 PM
#74
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Show-offs. Because people aren't allowed to own expensive bikes unless they are sponsored and given them? Or amateurs who have earned them by results first? The chap who has worked, earned his money, has a passion for cycling and bikes isn't allowed to spend his extra cash on a bike not befitting his station?
Plenty of very average riders at my Club have top-of-the-range machines and we all admire the bikes - so what? It's their money. No different to those who buy Ferrari's, Porsches or expensive watches, clothes or more expensive food than they need.
Plenty of very average riders at my Club have top-of-the-range machines and we all admire the bikes - so what? It's their money. No different to those who buy Ferrari's, Porsches or expensive watches, clothes or more expensive food than they need.
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