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Sell R5, get Caledonia - would you do this?

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Sell R5, get Caledonia - would you do this?

Old 07-25-20, 02:44 AM
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guadzilla
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Sell R5, get Caledonia - would you do this?

Disclaimer - yeah, yeah, i am going to make the decision myself. I just want to hear people's thoughts to see if there is a perspective i have not considered.

I have a very nice, fully tricked out Venge. I was looking to get a second training bike to go with it, for days when i just wanted to get some rides in, explore roads of unknown quality, etc. or to take with me on travel. At the time, i got a great deal on an R5 frameset and so picked it up. In hindsight, though, I think i would have been better off with something that is capable of taking wider tires, for all the reasons above. As it stands, the R5 and the Venge both fit the same use case and be used interchangeably.

So now i have the opportunity to sell the R5 frameset and get a Caledonia. Not the Caledonia 5 - that's more money than i want to spend for the Second Bike. Logically, it makes sense:
+ takes 34mm wheels, and so does a better job of meeting my requirements for a training/travel bike
+ same geometry as a road bike, so it wont handle too differently

On the other hand, my concerns:
- the R5 is just an awesome,awesome ride. I will be taking a step down with a Caledonia-series bike, as opposed to a Caledonia 5. How much, though?
- supposedly not as stiff as the R5

My brain says sell the R5, get the Caledonia. My heart says keep the R5.

WWYD?

(Cant keep both. Between my wife and I, we have 6 bikes at home right now, with 2 more in the pipeline for her and a Pegoretti in my not-too-distant future. That's a ridiculous number of bikes).

Last edited by guadzilla; 07-25-20 at 06:32 AM. Reason: Typos
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Old 07-25-20, 05:40 AM
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As someone who has recently purchased an R3, the Caledonia hit me in the feels, too. That said, my initial reaction is that it's a big expense for a few tweaks relative to the R-series. Also, one of the more alluring aspect for me, the hidden/internal wiring, is only available on the Caledonia 5, not the base model, and only with an electronic groupset, so that steps the price way up.

What does your R5 clear, tire wise? I'm currently running wide rims (Zipp 303S, 23mm int width) with modern, nominal 28mm tires (Pro 1 Addix TLE). I haven't poked around to measure the gaps, but I think that I could clear a 30mm in a Pro 1 if I wanted to; with the wide rims, this gives me quite a bit of volume - shoddy roads are no problem, likewise with shorter stretches of gravel. Realistically, a Cal5 would get me what - three or four mm of additional tire width? I don't think that that kind of difference moves the needle much in terms of road surface capability. I guess that I could also run my current wheels/tires with full fenders, and that could be appealing in some scenarios... but still - that's a lot of coin for not a ton of return, IMO.

I guess that were I stand is: if I were shopping for a new bike and it was between the Cal5 or an R-series, I'd lean Cal5... but as an owner of a recent R-series, it's just not bringing enough improvements to the table for the difference in price and it presents a poor value proposition.
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Old 07-25-20, 06:32 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
As someone who has recently purchased an R3, the Caledonia hit me in the feels, too. That said, my initial reaction is that it's a big expense for a few tweaks relative to the R-series. Also, one of the more alluring aspect for me, the hidden/internal wiring, is only available on the Caledonia 5, not the base model, and only with an electronic groupset, so that steps the price way up.

What does your R5 clear, tire wise? I'm currently running wide rims (Zipp 303S, 23mm int width) with modern, nominal 28mm tires (Pro 1 Addix TLE). I haven't poked around to measure the gaps, but I think that I could clear a 30mm in a Pro 1 if I wanted to; with the wide rims, this gives me quite a bit of volume - shoddy roads are no problem, likewise with shorter stretches of gravel. Realistically, a Cal5 would get me what - three or four mm of additional tire width? I don't think that that kind of difference moves the needle much in terms of road surface capability. I guess that I could also run my current wheels/tires with full fenders, and that could be appealing in some scenarios... but still - that's a lot of coin for not a ton of return, IMO.

I guess that were I stand is: if I were shopping for a new bike and it was between the Cal5 or an R-series, I'd lean Cal5... but as an owner of a recent R-series, it's just not bringing enough improvements to the table for the difference in price and it presents a poor value proposition.
That's a good perspective, thanks!

You are right - I mostly ride tarmac and if i do go into gravel, it is pretty well-packed stuff, so nothing technical. The R5 fits 30mm tires whereas my freaking Venge takes 32... go figure. I am running 28s on the Venge and 30s on the R5 right now. I have not really actually NEEDED wider tires yet. I think it is mainly OCD - in my head, having the Venge with 28c and the Other Bike with 32 or 34s would be a clearer distinction between how they are used.

Normally, i would just wait, but as it stands, i have an offer to buy the R5 frameset for very close to what i paid for it - so atleast there wont be too much of a hit in making the switch, if i so choose. That's what spurred the "should i do it" conundrum - normally, if i cant decide, i just wait and eventually, my brain settles on one course of action or the other.
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Old 07-25-20, 07:42 AM
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Sell the Venge!
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Old 07-25-20, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Noctilux.95 View Post
Sell the Venge!
Nah dude... i have wanted an aero road bike since the first S3 was released. I love my Venge (plus the all-black means i can wear my pink-and-blue team kit and NOT like like a paint sampler).
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Old 07-25-20, 09:51 AM
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Keep the R5, sell the Venge, get the Caledonia.
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Old 07-25-20, 10:02 AM
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Definitely keep the R5. You couldn't even drop some rando stranger screwing up your pace line. You need all the speed you can get!
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Old 07-25-20, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
On the other hand, my concerns:
- the R5 is just an awesome,awesome ride. I will be taking a step down with a Caledonia-series bike, as opposed to a Caledonia 5. How much, though?
- supposedly not as stiff as the R5
​​​​​​Cervelo is really good at making a bike appropriate for the kind of riding it was born for. I don't think it's a bad thing if this is somewhat less stiff than an R5.

Analogies can fool you. That said, they don't make the C series anymore, and they have a bona fide gravel bike still, so this seems pretty analogous to the C3/C5. I have a C3, used to have an R3 SL. My R3 was stiffer, but not by much. I've never found it lacking, but appreciate the change too when I'm on some truly awful surface. It jumps when I touch the pedal, the handling makes me feel like I could do crits. Not saying I could, I'm saying it's a satisfying ride. R3 is a little more in both of those areas, but the C3 is a fast handing bike that rides well, feels stable, and likes to be pushed. I'd expect the Caledonia to be all those things, plus the benefit of a few more years of engineering knowledge.
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Old 07-25-20, 10:09 AM
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4 bikes each, is a perfectly reasonable number. Adding a couple more wouldn’t be excessive.
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Old 07-25-20, 10:20 AM
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I think you'd wind up regretting moving down from a 5 to a "not-5".
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Old 07-25-20, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​the C3 is a fast handing bike that rides well, feels stable, and likes to be pushed. I'd expect the Caledonia to be all those things, plus the benefit of a few more years of engineering knowledge.
Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
I think you'd wind up regretting moving down from a 5 to a "not-5".
Yeah, that about sums up the conundrum. I also just realized that the CL50s I am using/will move over are 30mm OD - so putting a 34mm tire is going to ruin those marginal aero gains for which i overpaid for them, So there is that as well.

As of now, i am leaning towards leaving as is and putting 34mm tires on my steel bike, just to see how that feels. The only thing i will miss out with my current stable is having an all-road capable bike for travel. It likely makes sense to tackle that issue when i face it, given that the rest of 2020 seems to be a loss for any kind of global travel.

Anyway, thank you guys for the.comments and putting up with my stream-of-consciousness ramblings.
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Old 07-25-20, 11:34 AM
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Stiffness wise, it sounds like the Caledonia is definitely a step down. One article that I read stated that the Caledonia (stiffness/compliance wise) is based on the R3 Mud, and the Aspero is very close to that as well. I own an R5 and a Aspero, and I do notice a distinct difference. BUT, when I'm riding the Aspero, I don't sit there the whole time thinking to myself man, I wish this was stiffer. It still handles excellerations and climbing very well...it just doesn't have that instant, mind-blowingly-good, smile inducing, snap that the R5 has. But, that has more to do with just how good the R5 is, than it being a knock on Aspero. I suspect that the Caledonia would be a slightly closer to the R5, feel wise, based on the geometry/weight/intended purpose of it.

Now, on to your situation. What you are looking for is what the Caledonia is designed for...a nice all-around bike that is comfortable, but still performance based; a perfect compliment to a race bike. Would I give up my R5 for it? Never. Then again, I don't have a Venge, as well.

So, if I were you, I'd sell one of them (cough-Venge-cough) and get something else...but (just to confuse you even more)...I think that the Aspero is a better option than the standard Caledonia. It's priced similarly, weights about the same, germoerty is very close, but is more versatile and does very well on the road. Now, if you were looking at the Caledonia 5, then I'd say go for it. The higher grade carbon, and better aero properties would make it less of a step-down compared to your current bikes, and probably eliminate any second guessing that you may have.
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Old 07-25-20, 01:20 PM
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According to Bikeradar the construction and carbon quality between the Caledonia and the Caledonia 5 is the same, but one is more aero. If you dont care about fenders or extra mounts the Aspero looks like it would be a blast on just about any surface and offer something your Venge doesn't. Based on what I have read the Caledonia seems to be aimed at someone who wants only one bike to do as much as possible on.

Sell the R5 and Venge, buy a loaded to the nuts Caledonia 5 and a second set of high end aero wheels for going fast and a well rounded set of 35mm tires for go anywhere adventures?
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Old 07-25-20, 01:27 PM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
(Cant keep both. Between my wife and I, we have 6 bikes at home right now, with 2 more in the pipeline for her and a Pegoretti in my not-too-distant future. That's a ridiculous number of bikes).
The problem is not too many bikes. The problem is insufficient garage space.
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Old 07-25-20, 01:32 PM
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Looks like a fairly straight up replacement for the C3/C5. My C3 is a fantastic bike.
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Old 07-25-20, 01:38 PM
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I'd ask you how good the gravel opportunities are where you live and how gravel-curious you are? I love the idea of exploring good quality gravel roads, but where I live (Tucson) there are few. That's okay, but if I lived elsewhere, I'd have a gravel bike that could handle stuff a bit rougher than the target for gravel-race machines. So many interesting options.

Good luck with the decision.
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Old 07-25-20, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by genejockey View Post
The problem is not too many bikes. The problem is insufficient funds.
Fixt.
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Old 07-25-20, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
Fixt.
So many bikes, so little space money. Last bike I bought, I had the money (though not enough to go for Ultegra, but the new 105 is treating me right.) The problem was where to put it. Fortunately, I was able to fit it into the space I allotted for Bike Stuff.
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Old 07-25-20, 03:19 PM
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I would not buy a gravel bike that could not handle at least a 700x40 tire.
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Old 07-25-20, 08:24 PM
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Hearing that its basically the new C3 has me feeling no. Cant beat the light weight race geo R5
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Old 07-25-20, 08:26 PM
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Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
Looks like a fairly straight up replacement for the C3/C5. My C3 is a fantastic bike.
And overnight the C3 became a classic. High five!!
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Old 07-25-20, 08:36 PM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
Nah dude... i have wanted an aero road bike since the first S3 was released. I love my Venge (plus the all-black means i can wear my pink-and-blue team kit and NOT like like a paint sampler).
This sounds like Stockholm syndrome. That Venge is standing in the way of you owning more Cervelos!
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Old 07-25-20, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by melikebikey35 View Post
Stiffness wise, it sounds like the Caledonia is definitely a step down. One article that I read stated that the Caledonia (stiffness/compliance wise) is based on the R3 Mud, and the Aspero is very close to that as well. I own an R5 and a Aspero, and I do notice a distinct difference. BUT, when I'm riding the Aspero, I don't sit there the whole time thinking to myself man, I wish this was stiffer. It still handles excellerations and climbing very well...it just doesn't have that instant, mind-blowingly-good, smile inducing, snap that the R5 has. But, that has more to do with just how good the R5 is, than it being a knock on Aspero. I suspect that the Caledonia would be a slightly closer to the R5, feel wise, based on the geometry/weight/intended purpose of it.
...
I think that the Aspero is a better option than the standard Caledonia.
Originally Posted by noOriginalNames View Post
According to Bikeradar the construction and carbon quality between the Caledonia and the Caledonia 5 is the same, but one is more aero. If you dont care about fenders or extra mounts the Aspero looks like it would be a blast on just about any surface and offer something your Venge doesn't. Based on what I have read the Caledonia seems to be aimed at someone who wats only one bike to do as much as possible on.
This is really useful, thanks - especially the difference in ride feel between the R5 and the Aspero (which is something i was also considering earlier). So I dont really need 1 bike to do it all. My anal-retentive, OCD mindset likes the idea of having 2 bikes: a race bike, which i use for racing (Venge) and a bike for more relaxed rides and also for travel. The second bike doesnt need to be max performance-oriented: when i care for speed, I have the Venge. It just needs to be fun to ride. And the R5 is most certainly that!

In that context, i think you guys are right - it may make more sense to get a gravel bike instead of the Caledonia, as that would open up more riding opportunities when I travel (example - we were planning to ride around Kazakhstan after the IM Astana. A gravel bike would be far more versatile a ride there).

Originally Posted by GuitarBob View Post
I'd ask you how good the gravel opportunities are where you live and how gravel-curious you are? I love the idea of exploring good quality gravel roads, but where I live (Tucson) there are few. That's okay, but if I lived elsewhere, I'd have a gravel bike that could handle stuff a bit rougher than the target for gravel-race machines. So many interesting options.
Really good question. Not that many, to be honest. This whole upgrade is being driven by the notional idea of having these awesome mountain roads to ride when i travel or whatever. Nothing immediate, There are some offroad tracks I can ride here but I can do so quite comfortably on my heavy steel bike (which is typically permanently attached to the trainer).

Yeah, the more i think about it, the more it makes sense to wait and see if there are a lot of riding opportunities i am missing out due to the limitations of my existing bikes. If so, i can then either flip the R5 for a gravel bike. And as i write that, i feel a bit relieved that i wont be selling my R5 - which, in itself, is a very key data point.

Mucho gracias, todos! Your points have been very helpful.
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Old 07-26-20, 08:32 AM
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I can’t imagine selling my R5 to downgrade to an endurance bike. Just get a proper gravel bike and use it as a dual bike for gravel and endurance rides.
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Old 07-27-20, 01:21 PM
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Originally Posted by guadzilla View Post
This is really useful, thanks - especially the difference in ride feel between the R5 and the Aspero (which is something i was also considering earlier). So I dont really need 1 bike to do it all. My anal-retentive, OCD mindset likes the idea of having 2 bikes: a race bike, which i use for racing (Venge) and a bike for more relaxed rides and also for travel. The second bike doesnt need to be max performance-oriented: when i care for speed, I have the Venge. It just needs to be fun to ride. And the R5 is most certainly that!

In that context, i think you guys are right - it may make more sense to get a gravel bike instead of the Caledonia, as that would open up more riding opportunities when I travel (example - we were planning to ride around Kazakhstan after the IM Astana. A gravel bike would be far more versatile a ride there).



Really good question. Not that many, to be honest. This whole upgrade is being driven by the notional idea of having these awesome mountain roads to ride when i travel or whatever. Nothing immediate, There are some offroad tracks I can ride here but I can do so quite comfortably on my heavy steel bike (which is typically permanently attached to the trainer).

Yeah, the more i think about it, the more it makes sense to wait and see if there are a lot of riding opportunities i am missing out due to the limitations of my existing bikes. If so, i can then either flip the R5 for a gravel bike. And as i write that, i feel a bit relieved that i wont be selling my R5 - which, in itself, is a very key data point.

Mucho gracias, todos! Your points have been very helpful.
Seems like it would be less of a pain to rent a bike when you travel?
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