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Need education on electronic groups - SRAM Force AXS vs Ultegra Di2

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Need education on electronic groups - SRAM Force AXS vs Ultegra Di2

Old 08-14-20, 07:41 PM
  #26  
GlennR
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Compared to di2 derailleurs, yes, they are.

People argue that wireless is better because it looks cleaner, but the derailleurs themselves look horrible, imo. I don't care about wires, because it's a one time deal, build the bike and you're done with them.

Aesthetics aside, I'll take Shimano's better shifting and braking, the fact that di2 looks better is just icing on the cake.
You're entitled to YOUR opinion.

But I disagree.
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Old 08-14-20, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by InvertedMP
I circled the batteries in red.

Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Oh... those are HUGE.
I agree. Those are huge ... for hearing aid batteries.
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Old 08-15-20, 07:03 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by yarbrough462 View Post
This is not true. I have DT Swiss hubs on all of my bikes, road and mountain except one. It is a very simple matter of swapping the free hub body over if I wanted to run microspline (which I do on all my MTBs...). On my one wheel set without DT Swiss hubs (Bontrager Aeolus) I can get a micro spline free hub from Trek.
It's true for anyone using shimano wheels, with shimano hubs. Most other hub brands do offer other freehub bodies. Fulcrum/Campy offer Campy, shimano, xdr and microspline.
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Old 08-15-20, 05:10 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Oh... those are HUGE.
I'm surprised anyone would argue they arent huge. Its obviously relative to other rear derailleurs.
It may work great, but its hardly svelt/slim/unobtrusive.
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Old 08-15-20, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I'm surprised anyone would argue they arent huge. Its obviously relative to other rear derailleurs.
It may work great, but its hardly svelt/slim/unobtrusive.
You seem to be concerned about looks. When riding through a business district do you look at the windows for your reflection? Do you look "pro"?

Oh.. wait... is that Sram eTap on a professional bike? And what do those colorful striped indicate?


It's more important to BE pro than to LOOK pro.

[/sarcasm]
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Old 08-15-20, 06:20 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
You seem to be concerned about looks. When riding through a business district do you look at the windows for your reflection? Do you look "pro"?

Oh.. wait... is that Sram eTap on a professional bike? And what do those colorful striped indicate?


It's more important to BE pro than to LOOK pro.

[/sarcasm]
You are claiming I have an opinion that I haven't said.
I simply find that RD to be huge, relative to other RDs.
I didnt mention looking pro and dont claim to look pro.

As for your observation that I am concerned with looks, it's rare for someone to not have an opinion on how something looks in this hobby. You absolutely have opinions on how something looks. Your point is pretty hollow.

Pros use it, ok then- cool. I'm not a pro and what they need/use to make a living has little bearing on how I enjoy this hobby.
Pros use it, but its still fuggo.
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Old 08-15-20, 06:23 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I'm surprised anyone would argue they arent huge. Its obviously relative to other rear derailleurs. It may work great, but its hardly svelt/slim/unobtrusive.
Yep, it's almost as big as the snow shovel in the background.
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Old 08-15-20, 06:40 PM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Yep, it's almost as big as the snow shovel in the background.
That's a child's shovel that my kids used when they were 6 years old. They're now adults with their own kids.

And for those that the size of the RD is a real issue... they should get a fixie and eliminate it. Problem solved.
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Old 08-16-20, 06:11 AM
  #34  
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I rather ride mid level Ultegra di2 than top of the line SRAM. Looks better, shifts better, brakes better, charge lasts longer, costs less, is lighter, and is much more reliable. Better engineering over marketing.
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Old 08-16-20, 06:21 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Noctilux.95 View Post
I rather ride mid level Ultegra di2 than top of the line SRAM. Looks better, shifts better, brakes better, charge lasts longer, costs less, is lighter, and is much more reliable. Better engineering over marketing.
Have you had reliability issues with eTap? Do you mind sharing your experience? I have both Di2 and eTap equipped bikes and I haven’t had any reliability issues with either drivetrain.
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Old 08-16-20, 06:41 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Noctilux.95 View Post
I rather ride mid level Ultegra di2 than top of the line SRAM. Looks better, shifts better, brakes better, charge lasts longer, costs less, is lighter, and is much more reliable. Better engineering over marketing.
Wait until Shimano finally catches up with 12 speed. Prices will go up. Right now you're comparing shimano's old technology with SRAM's latest. Genuine shimano wheels will no longer work with the microspline cassettes.

SRAM AXS has been way over priced, unless purchased as part of an OEM bike. Prices are now coming down.

From a price standpoint, Campy chorus 12 mechanical rim brake group is the low price leader for 12 speed. I bought two chorus 12 groups last July for $1060 each. No hub change needed. As it turns out, Campy and SRAM 12 sprockets have the same spacing, so either can be used with either drivetrain. When shimano 12 comes out, each brand will need it's own freehub body. Campy also has a new freehub body coming out, for new cassettes that will have 9 or 10 tooth first sprockets. Campy will soon have 5 options for cassette bodies, all interchangeable, assuming that microspline can be made to fit 130mm spacing. If not, then shimano 12 will be 142mm spacing for disc only.
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Old 08-16-20, 06:43 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Noctilux.95 View Post
I rather ride mid level Ultegra di2 than top of the line SRAM. Looks better, shifts better, brakes better, charge lasts longer, costs less, is lighter, and is much more reliable. Better engineering over marketing.
Not sure if they included the Di2 battery. And Sram is 12 speed vs the 11 speed of Shimano.




BTW... i was at the LBS yesterday and they had a Dura Ace crank that the bonding came apart and the drive side split in half gouging the leg if the rider. The shop told me that this is the 5th one that came in and it is also happening to Ultegra.

https://www.bikeradar.com/features/s...crank-failure/
https://carlinthecyclist.com/epic-fa...1-speed-crank/

Last edited by GlennR; 08-16-20 at 06:52 AM.
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Old 08-16-20, 07:24 AM
  #38  
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Comparing ultegra to sram axs red isn't fair, since it's a much more costly group. Reduced weight is generally the only advantage gained when buying a top of the line group. Some weight comparisons omit the important battery weight and maybe the BB weight.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...n%20at%202389g.

I created a Sramanolo group using force axs 12 FD, RD shifters and 10-36 cassette with my Campy chorus 12 48/32 crank and brakes. The bike weighed exactly the same by my park digital scale, after the conversion. If a Campy 11-34 cassette is used, it adds a whopping 30 grams. This setup provides a wider range than a sram crank with only a 13T difference at the crank.
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Old 08-16-20, 07:27 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Comparing ultegra to sram axs red isn't fair, since it's a much more costly group. Reduced weight is generally the only advantage gained when buying a top of the line group. Some weight comparisons omit the important battery weight and maybe the BB weight.

https://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/p...n%20at%202389g.

I created a Sramanolo group using force axs 12 FD, RD shifters and 10-36 cassette with my Campy chorus 12 48/32 crank and brakes. The bike weighed exactly the same by my park digital scale, after the conversion. If a Campy 11-34 cassette is used, it adds a whopping 30 grams. This setup provides a wider range than a sram crank with only a 13T difference at the crank.
I'm jsut responding to what was said. "I rather ride mid level Ultegra di2 than top of the line SRAM..., is lighter, and is much more reliable"

To me this is a Ford vs Chevy argument. One is not better, they are different and leave it at that.

Last edited by GlennR; 08-16-20 at 07:46 AM.
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Old 08-16-20, 08:47 AM
  #40  
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Man there's a lot of dug in opinions in this thread. Some folks basically spewing opinionated nonsense.

Here's some thoughts, I have several friends that are sponsored cyclists, and others, like myself ride hard recreationally.
Most of the sponsored guys I know ride Shimano (but not all), so take that for what it's worth, maybe nothing?
My personal experience is with Shimano, why? My friends who ride a lot, you know the sponsored guys and the guys that ride to work and recreationally ride, generally tell me the same thing. SRAM makes good gear, but Shimano lasts longer and has better parts availability as systems age.
Would I consider buying SRAM? Yes...

At the end of the day you should ride what you like. I'm looking at another bike for next year and I'm leaning Shimano because I'm used to it, would like all my bikes to have the same kit. That doesn't mean I won't consider SRAM, I really like the 12x drivetrain option and the flexibility it gives you in the hills, which I ride a lot.
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Old 08-16-20, 09:04 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by OUGrad05 View Post
Here's some thoughts, I have several friends that are sponsored cyclists, and others, like myself ride hard recreationally.
Most of the sponsored guys I know ride Shimano (but not all), so take that for what it's worth, maybe nothing?
Do they buy their own gear or is it supplied to them? Most pros use Shimano because that's what their sponsors provide.

I personally don't care what anyone uses, just don't state opinion as fact.
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Old 08-16-20, 09:09 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Do they buy their own gear or is it supplied to them? Most pros use Shimano because that's what their sponsors provide.

I personally don't care what anyone uses, just don't state opinion as fact.
Depends on the person, since they're local pro's...still not totally sure what that means? They get small sponsor $ and buy their own gear with the exception of one guy I know who has his kit provided. That guy is freakishly strong for his weight and outrageously fast.
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Old 08-16-20, 09:18 AM
  #43  
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Not sure what the percentages are for the market but I would assume for road groupsets, Shimano has the vast majority folloed by Campy and then Sram with Rotor and others after.

When you dominate, most people just go with the flow.

If you can't ride both then Shimano is the safe choice. If you haven't ridden both you can't make an informed decision. If you haven't ridden both then most likely your opinion is just to support your decision.

I've ridden Sram and Shimano both mechanical and electronic. I've only ridden Campy Chorus and never Rotor, so I have no opnion.

If you're opinion is based on ascetics and the size of the battery then that's fine, we all have a image in our heads on how we present to the world. But be honest on how you reached your opinion and don't knock what you don't know.
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Old 08-16-20, 09:29 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I bought two chorus 12 groups last July for $1060 each.
I thought you would stop reminding us of this since you switched to SRAM, yet you've re-stated this factoid twice in the past 24 hours. I think everyone is well aware of how much you paid for your Chorus groups.
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Old 08-16-20, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Do they buy their own gear or is it supplied to them? Most pros use Shimano because that's what their sponsors provide.

I personally don't care what anyone uses, just don't state opinion as fact.
It seems you posted this unironically even though you posted in this thread how your sram is used by pros.
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Old 08-16-20, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
It seems you posted this unironically even though you posted in this thread how your sram is used by pros.
I miss your point. Most pros use Shimano because that's what their sponsors provide. Trek and I think Canyon riders use Sram because that's what they provide.

Not sure if any pro teams use Rotor, maybe a Continental team does.
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Old 08-16-20, 12:29 PM
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Some of us like Shimano & some of us like Sram.
I have Red eTap 22 on one bike, Red 22 mechanical on another, and Shimano Ultegra 6800 on another bike.
I have never tried Di2 & probably won't.
I prefer the eTap method of shifting, then Double Tap, then Shimano's.
eTap Red is the lightest of them all, I think that Sram made a mistake in making AXS heavier all around, in fact when I build up an Emonda SLR over the winter I won't use AXS, I'll stick with eTap Red 22.
As far as charging goes, I haven't had an eTap battery go dead during a ride, but I have had to change a shifter coin-cell battery before a ride once in two years.
No one I ride with has had eTap go dead on a ride, but several friends have had Di2 go dead. Because eTap's charges don't last as long, charging them is more in my routine.
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Old 08-16-20, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Dancing Skeleton View Post
As far as charging goes, I haven't had an eTap battery go dead during a ride, but I have had to change a shifter coin-cell battery before a ride once in two years.
No one I ride with has had eTap go dead on a ride, but several friends have had Di2 go dead. Because eTap's charges don't last as long, charging them is more in my routine.
I had my shifter batteries last for 4 years, but i plan on changing them every 2.

And if one of the derailleurs goes dead, most likely the rear since it's used more, you can swap in the one from the FD and continue your ride.
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Old 08-16-20, 12:48 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Let me guess: it sat on a tail carrier in a parking lot, and one of the 25.78% of drivers who are 99.99% clueless backed into it.
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Old 08-16-20, 12:58 PM
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Originally Posted by sfrider View Post
Let me guess: it sat on a tail carrier in a parking lot, and one of the 25.78% of drivers who are 99.99% clueless backed into it.
Uh... no.
It happened to a Ultegra crank and then to a Dura Ace. This guy must be laying down some serious wattage, for a old guy that's a cancer survivor.
"The Shimano Dura-Ace FC-9000 crank snapped off just as I stood to pedal up a small hill."
https://carlinthecyclist.com/shimano...00-crank-fail/

Last edited by GlennR; 08-16-20 at 01:02 PM.
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