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Campy 10S vs. 12S

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Campy 10S vs. 12S

Old 08-19-20, 08:30 AM
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Erzulis Boat
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Campy 10S vs. 12S

To the Campagnolo users- Has the ride feel/mechanics (shifting quality etc.) of the new Super Record 12 speed gruppo improved to a noticeable degree vs. the 10 Speed Record setup? The 12 speed in the mechanical version is what this applies to.

Reason for the question- I am considering getting a new Colnago Master frameset, and can install a 10S Record Gruppo that I already have, or get the new 12 speed setup. I don't want to feel like I am going to short change my riding experience (go back in time, if you will) by running the 10 speed.
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Old 08-19-20, 01:42 PM
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I would definitely go with the new 12 speed. It's a major improvement, as long as the all black parts don't bother you. The only issue I had after more than a year on Chorus 12 was the return of a cable friction issue on my internally routed Colnago C-RS. It was also a problem with 2018 11 speed, but got better with the maximum smoothness cables. After 2500 miles, one of my two bikes started having problems on the 12 to 11 shift, due to friction. A new rear cable would have fixed it, but I got the bug for electronic and now run a mixed Chorus 12 and SRAM Force AXS 12 setup. It's all SRAM but the crank and brakes.
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Old 08-19-20, 04:00 PM
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I just changed from an old Chorus 10-speed (circa 2001) to Chorus 12-speed (all mechanical). The shifting is a little better, but honestly, it was really good before. I mostly upgraded because I wanted to switch to a compact crankset and larger rear cassette (which required a new RD), and it was just time for a change. The new cranks are surely stiffer and lighter than my old alloy ones, as well. It's nice having the extra gears, too. In sum, it's an improvement, but not an earth shattering one. For the price of a Chorus groupset ($1050), it was worth it. For the price of Super Record, I'm not sure. I'd probably consider EPS as the next move up if I were in your shoes.
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Old 08-19-20, 09:36 PM
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I'd previously had a first gen 10sp record build that was really nice, currently have a 12sp Record ergo levers with all chorus drivetrain and its the nicest feeling group I think I've ever ridden. Granted the frame is something special too and the overall build is amazing but the group isn't a let down for the whole build. I'd assume super record is just that much nicer but kinda like above, if I started hitting super costs I'd probably consider going electronic.
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Old 08-19-20, 10:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
I'd previously had a first gen 10sp record build that was really nice, currently have a 12sp Record ergo levers with all chorus drivetrain and its the nicest feeling group I think I've ever ridden. Granted the frame is something special too and the overall build is amazing but the group isn't a let down for the whole build. I'd assume super record is just that much nicer but kinda like above, if I started hitting super costs I'd probably consider going electronic.
My understanding is that Chorus, Record and Super Record are mechanically identical (except that you have more gearing choices with Chorus). I believe the only difference is that Record and SR use more carbon and Ti to achieve lower weights. So, unless I'm mistaken, Super Record shouldn't shift any better than Chorus. It's just lighter. Somebody please correct me if that's not right.
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Old 08-20-20, 02:52 AM
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Yes, the 10 speed stuff, although excellent, has been passed by the shifting quality of the most recent generation of 11 speed and current 12 speed stuff. Front and rear derailleur are faster shifting and the newer Ergo levers are better (more, well, ergonomic).

I have Record 10 speed on one bike and it is great. The 11 speed Record on the other bike is, not better, but improved. That said, the newer stuff has a much more pronounced shifting action, sort of like a machine gun, vs my older 10 speed stuff which is much more light in action and feels like Shimano in comparison.

Keep your 10 speed stuff and be ready to keep it on your current bike or find a cool used frame and build that up with it.
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Old 08-20-20, 05:27 AM
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Originally Posted by mattcalifornia View Post
My understanding is that Chorus, Record and Super Record are mechanically identical (except that you have more gearing choices with Chorus). I believe the only difference is that Record and SR use more carbon and Ti to achieve lower weights. So, unless I'm mistaken, Super Record shouldn't shift any better than Chorus. It's just lighter. Somebody please correct me if that's not right.
How they function is identical, ie. the lever swing and how many gears it moves through. I don't know if differences in material or tweaking in assembly make a difference. I would assume that the cost difference to super has to be something more than just a few grams difference.
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Old 08-20-20, 06:30 AM
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Campy no longer makes 10 speed cassettes, except at the lowly centaur level. I had centaur 12-32 11 speed cassettes on my bikes a couple of years ago. Shifting was OK, but not the best. Any higher level cassettes are leftovers.

As for what you get with the higher level groups, it really is mostly weight savings. The derailleur cages are carbon rather than aluminum and more easily broken. Chorus 12 also has aluminum brake levers, first painted black, then clear coated. The Chorus brakes are now made in Taiwan and use Shimano style pads. They work just as well and cost less. Cassettes are now all steel, so all you get is some extra material machined off the SR cassettes at twice the price. The SR crank has a pricey Ti spindle and ceramic bearings. The weight savings is so trivial that it should only matter to a pro racer.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:34 AM
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I have no experience with 10s, but I put Record 11s on my Master and have no regrets....running Ultegra 11-28 cassette. I would definitely go 12s if you can.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:54 AM
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Thanks all so far!

I am no longer thinking about getting a Colnago Master, as I just ordered one! In red no less. I got the 56cm, and it should be here in mid October.

Such a tough call on the components. I have always wanted the "best", but I realize the point of diminishing returns.
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Old 08-20-20, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
I have no experience with 10s, but I put Record 11s on my Master and have no regrets....running Ultegra 11-28 cassette. I would definitely go 12s if you can.
How's that working for you? I'm looking at getting some 11sp centaur for my daughter's bike since its as cheap as Sora but has to work better; I've heard with 11sp that there's cross compatibility with cassette spacing and I do have 11sp shimano splined hubs I can build for the wheels.
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Old 08-20-20, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth View Post
How's that working for you? I'm looking at getting some 11sp centaur for my daughter's bike since its as cheap as Sora but has to work better; I've heard with 11sp that there's cross compatibility with cassette spacing and I do have 11sp shimano splined hubs I can build for the wheels.
Works great, shifts are true and crisp.
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Old 08-20-20, 08:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jadocs View Post
Works great, shifts are true and crisp.
I have the same setup, but I use a SRAM chain. I find them a bit quieter than the Shimano chain.

Centaur levers though, I'm not a fan of. Unfortunately only centaur levers work with centaur - you can't use potenza or above. If you can, try to source potenza.

John

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Old 08-21-20, 06:07 AM
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Potenza is no longer in production either. To get the best performance buy chorus or higher level. All of those levels are compatible.
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Old 08-21-20, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Potenza is no longer in production either. To get the best performance buy chorus or higher level. All of those levels are compatible.
I know. I'm kinda sore about that, too. It's a big quality jump between Centaur and Chorus. There's a enough Potenza on shelves that he could put something together. Merlincycles still has Potenza listed for not much more than eurobikeparts has Centaur.

Centaur to me always seemed a bit closer to Tiagra/Claris (quality wise) than to the 105, which is what Campy sold it as.

John
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Old 08-21-20, 05:48 PM
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I'll never know unless Campagnolo starts making 12 speed cassettes suitable for road riding with one tooth jumps through the 19 cog.
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Old 08-21-20, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I'll never know unless Campagnolo starts making 12 speed cassettes suitable for road riding with one tooth jumps through the 19 cog.
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-22-25-28-32
- or -
11-12-13-14-15-16-17-19-21-23-26-29

You must really love 18!
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Old 09-15-20, 09:01 AM
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IMHO, a Colnago needs Italian made Campy Record or above - regardless of weight saving or cost! It's the law in Italy, I believe.
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Old 09-15-20, 10:07 AM
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Originally Posted by AndyK View Post
IMHO, a Colnago needs Italian made Campy Record or above - regardless of weight saving or cost! It's the law in Italy, I believe.
I agree. I am going to run NOS Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed gruppo. 11 is cooler than 12 as numbers go.
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Old 09-15-20, 05:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat View Post
I agree. I am going to run NOS Campagnolo Super Record 11 speed gruppo. 11 is cooler than 12 as numbers go.
I like that 11 speed still used carbon fiber weave which couldn't be confused with cheap coated aluminum and included a 12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 cassette option. I'd buy Super Record 11 over Super Record 12.





not


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Old 09-15-20, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Drew Eckhardt View Post
I like that 11 speed still used carbon fiber weave which couldn't be confused with cheap coated aluminum and included a 12-1314-15-16-17-18-19-21-23-25 cassette option. I'd buy Super Record 11 over Super Record 12.





not

Exactly! I love the obvious weave, it gives it more dimension. I almost got the Super Record 12, but the 11 just stood out as a shade more "traditional" (how about that, haha!)
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Old 02-09-21, 07:16 AM
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I'm in the same situation, with a new frame that I can either build up with an existing 10-speed group or something new. I would like to go with Record 12 speed, but I don't like the gearing choices. I have no use for an 11 or 12-tooth cog and I haven't found anyone making Campy-compatible 12-speed cassettes that start with a 13. Miche makes one that starts with a 14 or 16, which is rather odd. Does anyone know of other options?
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Old 02-09-21, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Erzulis Boat View Post
To the Campagnolo users- Has the ride feel/mechanics (shifting quality etc.) of the new Super Record 12 speed gruppo improved to a noticeable degree vs. the 10 Speed Record setup? The 12 speed in the mechanical version is what this applies to.

Reason for the question- I am considering getting a new Colnago Master frameset, and can install a 10S Record Gruppo that I already have, or get the new 12 speed setup. I don't want to feel like I am going to short change my riding experience (go back in time, if you will) by running the 10 speed.
I’ve been pondering a Master for my next significant birthday (60th) in a couple of years - if I did, I would simply move my current all-silver Chorus 10 groupset over - it’s all in great shape, I have a few cassettes in reserve, and I had the shifters rebuilt in 2020, so they’re good for at least another decade. I think the more traditional groupset would be a great match for a classic like the Master. I would put something electronic (EPS) on my current Litespeed frame and use it for group rides. Keep the Master for solos and more gentle rides
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