Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Bike manufacturers forcing us/riders to 1x drive trains

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Bike manufacturers forcing us/riders to 1x drive trains

Old 08-22-20, 10:57 PM
  #1  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,611

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 668 Post(s)
Liked 303 Times in 199 Posts
Bike manufacturers forcing us/riders to 1x drive trains

Mrs. NoWhammies is starting to think about a new bike. The bike that has caught her eye is the Specialized SL7 Pro (here's a link).

Only here's the deal. The bike comes with a SRAM 1x front crank. Mrs. NoWhammies is not interested in a 1x front crank, but that's all that's being offered in that colour pallet. So basically if she wants the bike, she's forced to move to a 1x crank. Damn you Specialized and your pricing deals with SRAM!!!

One of coaches was/is riding a 1x crank and I commented about the crnak to him. He isn't impressed that he was forced to buy the bike with the 1x and is now waiting on a 2x crank (which of course is back ordered). Another friend of mine just bought a gravel bike (Specialized) for his wife. He managed to negotiate the removal of the 1x crank although the bike shop was not happy about it. I think he still had to pay for the 1x crank, although the shop is installing the 2x.

So. My rant is this. I think we're being forced to accept 1x cranks because that's what the bike manufacturers are pushing on us. I don't see a demand for this, but we have no choice in the matter. Colour me not impressed. End of rant. Thanks for reading.
NoWhammies is offline  
Likes For NoWhammies:
Old 08-22-20, 11:06 PM
  #2  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,314

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 413 Post(s)
Liked 475 Times in 240 Posts
This was all part of their plan when they took away out right to have triples.

I got Mrs Z and little Z IGHs specifically because the derailleur overlords were becoming too powerful (also because: That thing at the front? What does that do?).
znomit is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 11:11 PM
  #3  
mattscq
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 148
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 80 Post(s)
Liked 31 Times in 23 Posts
I see that 1x is invading the road bike space—and here I was thinking it was still mostly a gravel trend. Also (though someone may correct me), I thought SRAM cranks were all one piece so you kind of have to replace the entire thing to change chainrings or go 2x?

I do kind of admire the simplicity of 1x though. Why do you want 2x? with a 2x11, you effectively only get about 2 more speeds and maybe 1 more than that with a 2x12?

Though at $9500, one would understandably upset for not getting what one wanted. But $9500 for Force? Eep. Guess you could splurge more on the Sworks to get 2x Red.
mattscq is offline  
Old 08-22-20, 11:35 PM
  #4  
dabac
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8,546
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1035 Post(s)
Liked 231 Times in 171 Posts
The biz is under the impression that all customers that matters wants to ride what the pro racers ride.
And of course, ”new=better” is another widespread opinion.
So anyone having another set of priorities than accessorising like the pros is immediately facing a challenge.
I was entirely happy with my 3x7 commuter, tight ratio cassette, 26” wheels. Sure, it span out at 25 mph, which was a non-issue entirely for the suburb/city route. And it got amazing drivetrain mileage and upkeep costs.

The only time I can think of when equipment preferences have moved in the other direction is disc brakes on road bikes. While discs are in no way required, they’re nice. Less hand force needed, less influenced by weather. Plenty of everyday riders wanted them. And of course some want Ultegra or Dura-Ace as well. And suddenly there they were, despite organizers, teams and riders being far from convinced about their usefulness.
dabac is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 12:41 AM
  #5  
Dean V
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 2,779
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1024 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 211 Times in 124 Posts
We have also been getting 2x set ups forced on us for years as well.
I have 2 bikes that I have had to get new rear mechs, cassettes, and 1x chainrings to convert them.
What problem does she have with the 1x configuration?
Has she ridden them before?
Dean V is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 12:55 AM
  #6  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 22,002
Mentioned: 74 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14692 Post(s)
Liked 5,634 Times in 3,224 Posts
I wouldn't buy a 1x bike. Guess I would accept one for free, but I wouldn't spend money on it.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 01:20 AM
  #7  
HTupolev
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,849
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1757 Post(s)
Liked 907 Times in 444 Posts
Originally Posted by mattscq View Post
Why do you want 2x?
To get tighter spacing over a given gearing range, and/or to facilitate a wider range.

with a 2x11, you effectively only get about 2 more speeds and maybe 1 more than that with a 2x12?
Depends on the particular drivetrain configuration and the rider's shifting patterns. A 2x11 being worth only 13 unique useful gear ratios is on the extreme low end.

For example, here's a bog-standard Shimano 50-34 11-28:



Even if you're just treating that drivetrain as a 1x-plus-bailout, there are four ratios in the small ring that are a solid step below anything in the big ring. So it makes no sense to describe this as providing any less than 15 ratios. (And depending on your shifting tendencies, 16 could be reasonably argued, and maybe even 17 if you're picky and get creative.)

Claims that 2x drivetrains only provide such-and-such many gears over 1x are generally made by people trying to sell 1x drivetrains, and any claim that it's a single number is inherently reductive.
HTupolev is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 02:11 AM
  #8  
GlennR
On Your Left
 
GlennR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Long Island, New York, USA
Posts: 8,118

Bikes: Trek Emonda SLR, Sram eTap, Zipp 303

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2771 Post(s)
Liked 2,056 Times in 1,029 Posts
Forget 1x are disc brakes being forced on us?
GlennR is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 02:13 AM
  #9  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,842
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1073 Post(s)
Liked 153 Times in 113 Posts
Im fairly certain a $9500,- budget will get you almost any bike youd like. Possibly even one of the 16 other 2x Tarmacs. Why fixate on the -one- bike that isnt to your liking? :-)

(Please dont answer :-)
Racing Dan is offline  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 08-23-20, 04:36 AM
  #10  
rubiksoval
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 4,423

Bikes: bikes

Mentioned: 52 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2607 Post(s)
Liked 1,400 Times in 700 Posts
Originally Posted by mattscq View Post
I do kind of admire the simplicity of 1x though. Why do you want 2x? with a 2x11, you effectively only get about 2 more speeds and maybe 1 more than that with a 2x12?
.
Range. Chain line. Gear jumps. Drivetrain efficiency. Performance.
rubiksoval is offline  
Likes For rubiksoval:
Old 08-23-20, 05:31 AM
  #11  
Germanrazor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 262

Bikes: Trek Madone

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 54 Posts
Funny you mention this because in my rides I have gotten a lot stronger in my ability and find I hardly to never use my small chain ring anymore. If they could get to a 1x14 one day with some range I might would be game for the simplicity.
Germanrazor is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 05:39 AM
  #12  
Germanrazor
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 262

Bikes: Trek Madone

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 98 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 54 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Range. Chain line. Gear jumps. Drivetrain efficiency. Performance.
With the setup like a 1X maybe since a FD is not needed have a designed chain guide that could effectively keep cross chaining more manageable. I agree though the line is affected. The only viable way I see is possibly a narrower chain width and tighter cassette spacing as well to accommodate this.

Give the manufacturers time and they will figure it out. Quite honestly, I have wondered why they have not come out with sealed internal drive trains (transmissions) so to speak for bikes that are obviously extremely lightweight. Same principle as when shaft draft was introduced to motorcycles. The weight is the issue here and probably will never happen on a day to day rider.
Germanrazor is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 05:55 AM
  #13  
Bah Humbug
runner
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 17,164

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6660 Post(s)
Liked 2,019 Times in 1,088 Posts
Certain colors have certain equipment - it's always been that way. She's "forced" into a single the same way she's "forced" into SRAM. She can go with another color or see if she can have the shop switch it.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 06:53 AM
  #14  
burnthesheep
Newbie racer
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 2,607

Bikes: Propel, red is faster

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1166 Post(s)
Liked 1,049 Times in 660 Posts
Topic makes no sense. There IS a 2x SL7 pro in the catalog. It is Di2 and not SRAM. That’s a choice.

The model being complained about here is specifically listed as being the 1x option. So, you chose the 1x option out of a massive list of 2x options and complain about it being 1x?

If a LBS only offers that, that’s on them. Not Specialized. Specialized has a ton of 2x Roubaix, Tarmac, etc.....

Most all the rest in that lineup are also 2x.

So, what are we mad about here?
burnthesheep is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 07:01 AM
  #15  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,515
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1941 Post(s)
Liked 1,299 Times in 748 Posts
Wait... 1x is the only option IN THAT COLOR? Seriously? This is your complaint?

Here is a wild idea... get a different color.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 07:18 AM
  #16  
Canker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 1,494
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 240 Post(s)
Liked 89 Times in 52 Posts
Or by the 2x and have it painted the color you want. If I'm buying a $9500 bike I'm pretty sure I can afford changing the color.
Canker is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 07:44 AM
  #17  
biker128pedal
Senior Member
 
biker128pedal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Eastern VA
Posts: 1,100

Bikes: 2021 Domane SL6, Black Beta (Nashbar frame)

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 67 Posts
Wait until next year. There will be different colors.
biker128pedal is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 07:51 AM
  #18  
DrIsotope
Non omnino gravis
 
DrIsotope's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: SoCal, USA!
Posts: 8,553

Bikes: Nekobasu, Pandicorn, Lakitu

Mentioned: 119 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4899 Post(s)
Liked 1,704 Times in 947 Posts
Forced, you say? Sounds a bit strong. Am I to understand that a Specialized dealer came to your house, thrust the bike at you, and took your money? Because that's how force works.

I was not forced to buy a bike that has a matte paint job, even though up near the top of my "do not wants" was a matte paint job. I wanted a bike. I didn't want to wait. There was no force.

I won't even lean into the near-10k pricepoint thing.
__________________
DrIsotope is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 08:00 AM
  #19  
PoorInRichfield
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 563

Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Trek Boone 9, Cannondale F29

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 309 Post(s)
Liked 231 Times in 139 Posts
Is Mrs. NoWhammies fixed on SRAM? The Tarmac SL7 Expert w/ Ultegra Di2 is obviously 2x and a considerably smaller price. That would give Mrs. NoWhammies some cash left over to buy a lighter carbon wheelset and have the frame painted or vinyl wrapped... and still come out a few dollars ahead!

GlennR ... I'll get you this for Christmas

PoorInRichfield is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 08:14 AM
  #20  
Jack Tone 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 343
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 200 Post(s)
Liked 120 Times in 84 Posts
Originally Posted by Germanrazor View Post
With the setup like a 1X maybe since a FD is not needed have a designed chain guide that could effectively keep cross chaining more manageable. I agree though the line is affected. The only viable way I see is possibly a narrower chain width and tighter cassette spacing as well to accommodate this.

Give the manufacturers time and they will figure it out. Quite honestly, I have wondered why they have not come out with sealed internal drive trains (transmissions) so to speak for bikes that are obviously extremely lightweight. Same principle as when shaft draft was introduced to motorcycles. The weight is the issue here and probably will never happen on a day to day rider.
I believe GCN had a video coming out soon that tests such a bike. (1x crank with 2 speed internal rear hub?)
Jack Tone is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 08:19 AM
  #21  
xroadcharlie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: Windsor Ontario, Canada
Posts: 378

Bikes: 2018 Giant Sedona

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 117 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times in 59 Posts
1x is fine if it has a low enough gear. But the SL7 on the link doesn't, so it wouldn't even make my shortlist.

Giant's comparable bike, the Propel Advanced offers a 2x Crankset. And Giant, The largest manufacturer of bicycles in the world builds high quality, performance, and value thats 2'nd to none. You really should check them out.

On 2nd thought by replacing the 46t chainring on the SL7 with a 42t, She might get low enough for climbing and still have a tall enough gear for the downside. I do prefer a 1x chainring myself if it meets my needs.

Last edited by xroadcharlie; 08-23-20 at 08:39 AM.
xroadcharlie is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 08:49 AM
  #22  
grizzly59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 551
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 201 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times in 107 Posts
3 x 9 is optimal. 1 x 13 rear wheel will probably collapse if you weight more than 135 lbs and turn hard left. Chains will have to be built to SR-71 specs and cost $100. Arrgh
grizzly59 is offline  
Likes For grizzly59:
Old 08-23-20, 12:57 PM
  #23  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 12,799

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 102 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5613 Post(s)
Liked 2,804 Times in 1,626 Posts
Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
So. My rant is this. I think we're being forced to accept 1x cranks because that's what the bike manufacturers are pushing on us. I don't see a demand for this, but we have no choice in the matter. Colour me not impressed. End of rant. Thanks for reading.
She is forced to use 1x if she CHOOSES to buy that specific color bike.
That is a bad example to support your rant. It isnt applicable, really.
I agree that 1x is being pushed for drop bar bikes, mainly its in the gravel category, but sure- its being pushed for drop bar bikes.
It isnt being forced on consumers though. There are tons of 2x drivetrains to choose from on new bikes.

I build up all my frames and spec my bikes how I like. I have no interest in buying a bike from a store and then immediately changing the tape, bars, saddle, stem, and tires. So I for sure have no interest in changing the entire drivetrain. That clearly isn't the right bike for your wife.

You can...
- buy it and ride a drivetrain that isnt ideal.
- buy it and spend money to change the drivetrain then sell the takeoffs on eBay to recoup some of the cost.
- don't buy it and buy any number of bikes that have the correct drivetrain.

Look, more options to choose from since nobody is forced into anything in this scenario, despite your claim.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 01:06 PM
  #24  
Bah Humbug
runner
 
Bah Humbug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 17,164

Bikes: S1, R2, P2

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6660 Post(s)
Liked 2,019 Times in 1,088 Posts
Originally Posted by grizzly59 View Post
3 x 9 is optimal. 1 x 13 rear wheel will probably collapse if you weight more than 135 lbs and turn hard left. Chains will have to be built to SR-71 specs and cost $100. Arrgh
There's already a 1x13 group which disproves your theory. It's also what I heard about 10-speed when I started riding.
Bah Humbug is offline  
Old 08-23-20, 01:38 PM
  #25  
Leinster
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: location location
Posts: 2,786

Bikes: MBK Super Mirage 1991, CAAD10, Yuba Mundo Lux, and a Cannondale Criterium Single Speed

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked 181 Times in 131 Posts
Originally Posted by dabac View Post
The biz is under the impression that all customers that matters wants to ride what the pro racers ride.
And of course, ”new=better” is another widespread opinion.
So anyone having another set of priorities than accessorising like the pros is immediately facing a challenge.
I was entirely happy with my 3x7 commuter, tight ratio cassette, 26” wheels. Sure, it span out at 25 mph, which was a non-issue entirely for the suburb/city route. And it got amazing drivetrain mileage and upkeep costs.

The only time I can think of when equipment preferences have moved in the other direction is disc brakes on road bikes. While discs are in no way required, they’re nice. Less hand force needed, less influenced by weather. Plenty of everyday riders wanted them. And of course some want Ultegra or Dura-Ace as well. And suddenly there they were, despite organizers, teams and riders being far from convinced about their usefulness.
The problem with this theory is that pros have been offered 1x, and have given it a resounding thumbs down. But the manufacturers are continuing with it anyway.
Leinster is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.