Brake Hoods Tilted Inward... Have You Tried It?
09-08-20, 09:14 AM
#26
Full Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Lafayette, Indiana
Posts: 462
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 108 Times
in
58 Posts
I'm probably at least 2/3 that far on my vintage Miyata, I did not do that on purpose - it has the original narrow bars with quite a bit of flare out in the drops, so the the hoods just line up with the flare.
Sounds like you have a death-grip on your brake hoods!
09-08-20, 10:40 AM
#28
Senior Member
Likes For popeye:
09-08-20, 11:14 AM
#30
Senior Member
09-08-20, 04:36 PM
#31
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2020
Posts: 13
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Is this actually easier on your wrists? Unless Im picturing it wrong it seems your wrists will be put in an awkward position during this?
09-08-20, 10:46 PM
#32
Senior Member
In one of the linked videos the guy simply loosens the clamp on his shifters and twists them several degrees without worrying about the cables/housings. I didn't think that would be feasible because I always fasten the cables/housings to the front and back of the handlebar using electrical tape, so I unwrapped the top section of the bartape on each side and cut the electrical tape off before loosening the clamps and adjusting the orientation of the shifters.
The Verdict
While I can't speak to any aerodynamic benefits of moving my brake levers in, my wrists loved it. My wrists were so happy and pain-free that I'm certainly leaving the levers pushed inwards. Whether riding on the hoods while seated or climbing out of the saddle with hands on the hoods, both felt great. Heck, I'm now wondering if the Ultegra levers were actually designed to be mounted with a slightly inward angle? My hands fit so naturally on the hoods now and my thumbs can easily reach the buttons on top of the levers to flip my Garmin screen.
As for the cons of doing this, I hardly found any. Handling was unchanged. Riding in the drops is a smidge more difficult to reach the shifter, but not enough to really matter. The Ultegra Di2 levers flare-outward by design, so they still seem like they're in a pretty good place even with the levers angled inwards. If one did have problems reaching the levers in the drops, the reach can be adjusted on the Di2 levers via a screw under the lever to bring the lever in or out. If one really, really, really wants easy shifter access, there's always the sprint-shifter option. Also note that I have my Di2 setup for "full synchro" shifting which means I only need to reach the right-hand shifter, so I don't even care if the left shifter is out or reach or not.
Long-story-short, moving my shift levers inward was a free ($) and very welcome change from an ergonomics perspective. If there's an aero advantage I wouldn't know, but if such an advantage exists, that'd just be gravy on top of an already good meal.
While I can't speak to any aerodynamic benefits of moving my brake levers in, my wrists loved it. My wrists were so happy and pain-free that I'm certainly leaving the levers pushed inwards. Whether riding on the hoods while seated or climbing out of the saddle with hands on the hoods, both felt great. Heck, I'm now wondering if the Ultegra levers were actually designed to be mounted with a slightly inward angle? My hands fit so naturally on the hoods now and my thumbs can easily reach the buttons on top of the levers to flip my Garmin screen.
As for the cons of doing this, I hardly found any. Handling was unchanged. Riding in the drops is a smidge more difficult to reach the shifter, but not enough to really matter. The Ultegra Di2 levers flare-outward by design, so they still seem like they're in a pretty good place even with the levers angled inwards. If one did have problems reaching the levers in the drops, the reach can be adjusted on the Di2 levers via a screw under the lever to bring the lever in or out. If one really, really, really wants easy shifter access, there's always the sprint-shifter option. Also note that I have my Di2 setup for "full synchro" shifting which means I only need to reach the right-hand shifter, so I don't even care if the left shifter is out or reach or not.
Long-story-short, moving my shift levers inward was a free ($) and very welcome change from an ergonomics perspective. If there's an aero advantage I wouldn't know, but if such an advantage exists, that'd just be gravy on top of an already good meal.
I'm happy with this so far.
Likes For rousseau:
09-08-20, 11:42 PM
#33
bike whisperer
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,537
Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1523 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times
in
508 Posts
Consider all the angles on all the handgrips on all the bikes you've seen. Road bikes are the odd one out. Your thumbs prefer to point inwards than forwards.
__________________
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
Sheldon Brown's bike info ~~~ Park Tools repair help
Half-step triple, using double gear ~~~ 6400 STI rebuild walkthrough ~~~ Want 8/9/10s @126mm OLD? OCR. ~~~ Shimano cassette body overhaul ~~~ Ergopower Escape wear repair ~~~ PSA: drivetrain wear
List of US/Canada bike co-ops ~~~ Global list
09-09-20, 05:14 PM
#34
Hear myself getting fat
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 754
Bikes: Sir Velo A Sparrow
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times
in
134 Posts
Which Shimano padded bar tape is that? I really like the looks of it, do you have a link or a model/product name? Is that considered a flat black color or a "carbon" color?
Thanks!
Thanks!
09-09-20, 07:31 PM
#35
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 713
Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
184 Posts
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...handlebar-tape
I wanted a cheaper alternative to LizardSkin DSP tape. So far the tape has held-up well this year and has the right amount of grip and padding for me. It's not as grippy as LizardSkin DSP tape and not quite as easy to wrap, but considerably cheaper.
Likes For PoorInRichfield:
09-10-20, 10:52 AM
#36
Hear myself getting fat
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Inland Northwest
Posts: 754
Bikes: Sir Velo A Sparrow
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 335 Post(s)
Liked 265 Times
in
134 Posts
Assuming you're talking about the tape on my bars (black), it's this:
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...handlebar-tape
I wanted a cheaper alternative to LizardSkin DSP tape. So far the tape has held-up well this year and has the right amount of grip and padding for me. It's not as grippy as LizardSkin DSP tape and not quite as easy to wrap, but considerably cheaper.
https://www.biketiresdirect.com/prod...handlebar-tape
I wanted a cheaper alternative to LizardSkin DSP tape. So far the tape has held-up well this year and has the right amount of grip and padding for me. It's not as grippy as LizardSkin DSP tape and not quite as easy to wrap, but considerably cheaper.
I appreciate the link!
09-10-20, 01:33 PM
#37
Banned
By Accident .. literally , after a crash . but I loosened them & straighten them out again..
09-14-20, 12:09 PM
#38
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,190
Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C
Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times
in
349 Posts
Yes, I have my brifters angled in a bit as well. Much like the pics posted. If you look at them from the front straight on, it will look very similar to the OP pic.
Side note: If you have mechanical shifting and you do this, make sure to double check your indexing. Re-aligning the brifters toward the center will pull on your cables a bit.
Side note: If you have mechanical shifting and you do this, make sure to double check your indexing. Re-aligning the brifters toward the center will pull on your cables a bit.
01-11-21, 09:25 AM
#39
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 781
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 479 Post(s)
Liked 277 Times
in
156 Posts
I'm envisioning a young product developer at Shimano running down the hall to his boss's office:
"I'VE GOT IT! I'VE GOT THE NEW PRODUCT IDEA FOR 2021... (catches breath)... "brake... brake levers... brake levers with a 20 degree bend to let guys angle the shifters in."
"I'VE GOT IT! I'VE GOT THE NEW PRODUCT IDEA FOR 2021... (catches breath)... "brake... brake levers... brake levers with a 20 degree bend to let guys angle the shifters in."
Likes For Zaskar:
01-11-21, 03:26 PM
#40
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Mine about 1/3 of that photo. I look at it as simply finding the angle that works best and leads to the fewest hand and wrist issues. What it looks like? That's somebody else's problem.
I believe that rider is about to win a race, That toe-in doesn't seem to be hurting him too much.
I believe that rider is about to win a race, That toe-in doesn't seem to be hurting him too much.
01-11-21, 03:52 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 713
Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
184 Posts
I noticed in last year's Tour de France (the only bike race I watch) that quite a few riders ride with their hands wrapped around the tops of their brake hoods and their forearms parallel to the ground. Apparently this riding position is "the most aero", at least compared to riding in the drops because it reduces the frontal area of one's forearms. Assuming this to be true, I think the "hoods-in" adjustment makes that position more comfortable as one's hands can rest a little more naturally on the brake hoods.
Since I started this post, I've kept my levers angled in and just love it. I only wish I had done this decades ago
Since I started this post, I've kept my levers angled in and just love it. I only wish I had done this decades ago
01-11-21, 05:15 PM
#42
just another gosling
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,527
Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004
Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3885 Post(s)
Liked 1,938 Times
in
1,383 Posts
Yes, about like post 18. I've had them like that for years. Wrist feels better like that.
__________________
Results matter
Results matter
10-03-21, 07:22 PM
#43
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,353
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 507 Post(s)
Liked 634 Times
in
432 Posts
so, reviving... for what may be an interesting adjustment idea for me.
I know this has been goin on for some years, especially in the junior ranks... but not riding much, I haven't really been prodded to experiment with my setup.
But the recent 'Worlds' smacked me upside the head on this, again. Anthony McCrossan making a marked note of this during the Worlds Mens (Boys ?) Jrs RR.
He was a little poo-poo on it, and given a young group, I sortta understand... But, can't really discount it, until one tries it.
He also noted that it's used for a more 'aero' position, especially now that forearms only on the bars is 'Verboten' !!!
Pic of US and Estonian riders with tilted Shifters, and 2 others with straight orientation...
To Tilt or Not to Tilt; That is the question...
And a Norwegian, brought into focus on the broadcast, BECAUSE he had his forearms on the bars, but hands/fingers hooked on the levers... violation ? or not ?
naughty boy... LOL!
not sure if there was a UCI 'determination' of this, or they ignored it...
Men's Elite Ranks - most of the riders I saw during the full length RR broadcast, had straight levers... Remco was an obvious exception - his are tilted.
Mostly straight shooters!
One other important thing which Anthony noted... he spoke with some SHimano staff, and they STATED that the NEW Dura ace Gruppo SHifters WILL come with a 'tilt' built-in !
No further comment on how it's config'd or how much tilt, or other details...
Seems like the only way to get a feeling for how this might impact, is to give it a try.
tilted - not so much, maybe 20 deg.... give it a go...
so I tilted mine on my weekday rider - Marin Treviso - which gets the most miles of my bikes... gonna try it for at least a month or so, and make variation on tilt amount to see what effect that might have...
FUN STUFF !!!
Ride On
Yuri
I know this has been goin on for some years, especially in the junior ranks... but not riding much, I haven't really been prodded to experiment with my setup.
But the recent 'Worlds' smacked me upside the head on this, again. Anthony McCrossan making a marked note of this during the Worlds Mens (Boys ?) Jrs RR.
He was a little poo-poo on it, and given a young group, I sortta understand... But, can't really discount it, until one tries it.
He also noted that it's used for a more 'aero' position, especially now that forearms only on the bars is 'Verboten' !!!
Pic of US and Estonian riders with tilted Shifters, and 2 others with straight orientation...
To Tilt or Not to Tilt; That is the question...
And a Norwegian, brought into focus on the broadcast, BECAUSE he had his forearms on the bars, but hands/fingers hooked on the levers... violation ? or not ?
naughty boy... LOL!
not sure if there was a UCI 'determination' of this, or they ignored it...
Men's Elite Ranks - most of the riders I saw during the full length RR broadcast, had straight levers... Remco was an obvious exception - his are tilted.
Mostly straight shooters!
One other important thing which Anthony noted... he spoke with some SHimano staff, and they STATED that the NEW Dura ace Gruppo SHifters WILL come with a 'tilt' built-in !
No further comment on how it's config'd or how much tilt, or other details...
Seems like the only way to get a feeling for how this might impact, is to give it a try.
tilted - not so much, maybe 20 deg.... give it a go...
so I tilted mine on my weekday rider - Marin Treviso - which gets the most miles of my bikes... gonna try it for at least a month or so, and make variation on tilt amount to see what effect that might have...
FUN STUFF !!!
Ride On
Yuri
Likes For cyclezen:
10-04-21, 09:57 AM
#44
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Richfield, WI
Posts: 713
Bikes: Trek Domane SL7 Disc, Cannondale F29
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 386 Post(s)
Liked 323 Times
in
184 Posts
Glad to hear a bunch of you are trying the tilted hood experiment and liking it. Since I created the original post, I have not gone back to straight hoods nor do I ever plan to. My hands and wrists are too happy with the inward tilted levers and I haven't noticed any negative impact on functionality. I didn't go very extreme, but the last person I rode with noticed my levers were tilted in, so it must be enough to be visible by most.
I think the reason why we aren't seeing this that much in the pro peloton is likely tradition or "if it's not broke, don't fix it"? Perhaps some riders feel their brake and shift levers are more accessible from the drops if the levers aren't tilted and so they don't go there.
I think the reason why we aren't seeing this that much in the pro peloton is likely tradition or "if it's not broke, don't fix it"? Perhaps some riders feel their brake and shift levers are more accessible from the drops if the levers aren't tilted and so they don't go there.
10-04-21, 09:53 PM
#45
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,353
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 507 Post(s)
Liked 634 Times
in
432 Posts
took my Treviso on a 'recovery' ride today (yesterday was a 'sufferfest' for me... LOL!) After, my post, I decide to actually 'measure the new tilt angle (I had eyeballed it...) put a pencil line on the lever housing and held protractor to it - came back about 27-28 degrees - not so obvious in the pic.
Went on ride...
Felt really weird !
I have 58 ish years riding with levers near centered ( a little tilt based on each grip ergos); so this was a BIG change...
Actually didn't really 'Dislike' it, but it did have me popping my elbows outward a bit - a tendency I always seem to have anyway... This always causes my shoulders to hunch more - elbows in and the shoulders drop nicely/comfortably, especially when ride stress is high.
I can see that if a rider likes their hands more 'over' the hood than along side, this would feel nice.
But with the Ultegra 9 spd on this bike the levers were WAY too far away from my finger tips when in the drops/bend. I have very long hands/fingers, so I usually don;t have grip issues, (in fact I build up the bar circumference becasue std bar diameter is way too small for me...) but with this 'tilt' angle I was actually causing a 'shift' with the lever, rather than braking.... won;t work if I'm in the bend/drops...
I brought the tilt back down to about 12-14 deg at mid-ride (had my hex key along) and that felt better. But still a bit of reach. Someone with short hands fingers might have issues... - BUT this all depends on the version of brifter ! The ergos on every different brifter model are very different. - the 6800 brifters I have are much slimmer and offer an easier reach to the lever.
so it all dependz...
Will ride with them at the 12 deg tilt for a while...
Ride On
Yuri
Last edited by cyclezen; 10-04-21 at 09:57 PM.
Likes For cyclezen:
10-05-21, 10:03 AM
#46
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 786
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 338 Post(s)
Liked 408 Times
in
252 Posts
I tried it since my last post to see what it's like, and it isn't bad, at all. Didn't go for an overly extreme angle which would make it hard to use the brakes from the drops. I can't say it made it much better, but I'm keeping it this way.
Likes For Branko D:
10-05-21, 11:01 AM
#47
On The Road Again
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DFW area, TX
Posts: 186
Bikes: Specialized Sequoia
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 443 Post(s)
Liked 62 Times
in
40 Posts
I haven't tried this yet but just from thinking it about it I have a question: If a rider is carrying some upper body weight on the hands and arms, wouldn't allowing the hoods to be rotated as in this thread result in spreading the load more across the palms rather than being concentrated on the web of the hand between the index finger and thumb? If so, that might be the reason for greater perceived comfort.
10-07-21, 01:52 AM
#48
Me duelen las nalgas
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513
Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel
Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times
in
1,800 Posts
I usually set mine with a slight inward tilt, mostly for comfort -- gets my wrists straighter, and puts the brake levers where I can reach them more easily from the drops. After this thread appeared awhile back I tried a more extreme inward tilt but it put my wrists at an uncomfortable angle so I switched back to a slight tilt. This is with MicroShift brifters.
If I tried other integrated brake levers/shifters that were more comfortable set straight, I'd do that instead. I have a couple of older sets of Shimano STI 8-speed brifters to mount on an older bike. Haven't tried 'em yet. I'll decide on the alignment after riding them awhile.
If I tried other integrated brake levers/shifters that were more comfortable set straight, I'd do that instead. I have a couple of older sets of Shimano STI 8-speed brifters to mount on an older bike. Haven't tried 'em yet. I'll decide on the alignment after riding them awhile.
10-08-21, 06:48 PM
#49
OM boy
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Goleta CA
Posts: 4,353
Bikes: a bunch
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 507 Post(s)
Liked 634 Times
in
432 Posts
so I rode with 12-ish degree tilt thru yesterday, when I popped a rear spoke... LOL Will fix that wheel 2morrow...
Brought out my Roubaix with 6600 Ultegra Shifters - started at 12 deg, went about 14 miles and decided to bring them back to 'normal' which is just a few deg. off vert.
I guess I'm just so accustomed to that 'position/posture' and it feels the most comfortable for me... Best shifter position for me to have a comfortable shoulder drop, either hoods/top or bend/drop.
I think it really is a very individual preference thing (as much as any part of of setup can be). Like so many things, cleat angle, bar tilt, seat tilt (or not), it obviously can have a profound affect.
I do think it's a really worthy experiment for any rider to try; being as easy as it is to vary and really use in every handhold...
I'm happy I gave it a try, made me pay attention to how the rest of my body reacted to this 'small' variation...
and it's interesting to read how others perceive this, in their own envelope of riding...
Ride On
Yuri
Brought out my Roubaix with 6600 Ultegra Shifters - started at 12 deg, went about 14 miles and decided to bring them back to 'normal' which is just a few deg. off vert.
I guess I'm just so accustomed to that 'position/posture' and it feels the most comfortable for me... Best shifter position for me to have a comfortable shoulder drop, either hoods/top or bend/drop.
I haven't tried this yet but just from thinking it about it I have a question: If a rider is carrying some upper body weight on the hands and arms, wouldn't allowing the hoods to be rotated as in this thread result in spreading the load more across the palms rather than being concentrated on the web of the hand between the index finger and thumb? If so, that might be the reason for greater perceived comfort.
I do think it's a really worthy experiment for any rider to try; being as easy as it is to vary and really use in every handhold...
I'm happy I gave it a try, made me pay attention to how the rest of my body reacted to this 'small' variation...
and it's interesting to read how others perceive this, in their own envelope of riding...
Ride On
Yuri
10-09-21, 02:40 PM
#50
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2021
Posts: 8,381
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4387 Post(s)
Liked 4,828 Times
in
2,984 Posts
I think the reason why we aren't seeing this that much in the pro peloton is likely tradition or "if it's not broke, don't fix it"? Perhaps some riders feel their brake and shift levers are more accessible from the drops if the levers aren't tilted and so they don't go there.