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So expensive

Old 09-13-20, 09:02 AM
  #51  
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Also let’s not forget current yellow jersey holder has a photo circulating of him dropping a roadie while on a MTB and running shoes. Gifted cyclists are gonna be fast regardless of gear
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Old 09-13-20, 09:23 AM
  #52  
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The OP does have a point here.

Regardless of what everyone else may think he does or does not need, road bike parts are expensive. Bike parts are expensive. And when you are coming from the world of single-speed/fixed gear, where there is a minimal amount of parts needed, there is quite a sticker shock as to how much it can cost to build/upgrade components on a road bike. This is simply because you need more components to ride a road bike as opposed to a brakeless track bike. Been there, done that. But you get used to it and in no time it doesn't seem that expensive...you just get a better job that pays more or you spend less money on other things in your life
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Old 09-13-20, 09:30 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Do you think if you got a Tour de France rider's bike, and they got a bike from Walmart, that they still wouldn't drop you out of the parking lot?
Confident yes.
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Old 09-13-20, 09:33 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by ryan_rides View Post
Confident yes.


Has RyanF made a return?
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Old 09-13-20, 10:36 AM
  #55  
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Upgrading to new parts has a poor payoff, aside from saddle. You're competing against OEMs who get a huge volume discount; you can approach new-bike prices by buying a groupset piecemeal. But upgrading to used parts is another story. Bike tech is changing so fast, and so many people want to be on that bleeding edge, that lightly used quality parts can be found quite reasonably, if one is patient and quick. Used narrow rim-brake tube wheels benefit from a triple whammy, with wider, disc brake, tubeless-ready on the bleeding edge. I agree the gains from the OP's bike will be small compared to, say, working on the engine. But some aero wheels could make an impact if the OP is fast at all.
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Old 09-13-20, 10:48 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by downtube42 View Post
Upgrading to new parts has a poor payoff, aside from saddle. You're competing against OEMs who get a huge volume discount; you can approach new-bike prices by buying a groupset piecemeal. But upgrading to used parts is another story. Bike tech is changing so fast, and so many people want to be on that bleeding edge, that lightly used quality parts can be found quite reasonably, if one is patient and quick. Used narrow rim-brake tube wheels benefit from a triple whammy, with wider, disc brake, tubeless-ready on the bleeding edge. I agree the gains from the OP's bike will be small compared to, say, working on the engine. But some aero wheels could make an impact if the OP is fast at all.
I agree, buying used parts can save a ton of money. However, from my own experience, I would be leary of buying used parts from anyone other than someone I know well. Otherwise, you have no idea truly how much use/abuse the part was subjected to and you could be inheriting someone else's failed, or near failing, component. In which case you'll end up having to buy a new one anyway, on top of the failed used one. Having said that, I typically only buy new parts from reputable dealers and used parts from friends or people I know.
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Old 09-13-20, 10:56 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mrblue View Post
I agree, buying used parts can save a ton of money. However, from my own experience, I would be leary of buying used parts from anyone other than someone I know well. Otherwise, you have no idea truly how much use/abuse the part was subjected to and you could be inheriting someone else's failed, or near failing, component. In which case you'll end up having to buy a new one anyway, on top of the failed used one. Having said that, I typically only buy new parts from reputable dealers and used parts from friends or people I know.
Yeah I didn't go into the challenges of buying used. Avoiding buying stolen parts is another challenge. I've bought a fair amount of used items from the local non-profit bike co-op. Those tend to be 5+ year old tech. In that setting, you can take your time with inspection. Buying from a stranger takes more attention to detail.
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Old 09-14-20, 09:26 AM
  #58  
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I (and no one) said bike weight doesn't matter. I said...

Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Bike weight doesn't matter nearly as much as we hear, read, are told by bike manufacturers
Of course you'd be faster on a 12 lbs. bike than on a 22 lbs. bike. But when we're talking about 16 lbs. vs 19 lbs., for beginners, amateurs, club riders, etc., that little bit of weight is not the difference in who's riding off the front and who's getting dropped. That's the difference in having two full bottles vs two empty bottles.

The reason pros are on $10,000++ bikes is two-fold:
- They've maxed every other advantage, e.g. body weight, fitness, position, form, skill/strategy/tactics, etc.
- They're sponsored.

The reason I'm on an expensive bike is because I wanted an expensive bike and I can afford one... not because I thought I'd be faster. I know damn well, the only thing that'll make me faster is more training, better training... and less beer.
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Old 09-14-20, 11:47 AM
  #59  
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you live in south FL and you've been hit 13 times.

Keep the bike you have, and get some life insurance.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:16 PM
  #60  
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Bike weight does matter, but not always predictably:


Cycling News Flash for July 19, 2005

Edited by Jeff Jones

Hour record broken by Sosenka in Moscow

By Shane Stokes

Ondrej Sosenka has surprisingly beaten the world hour record set by Britain's Chris Boardman in 2000. In Moscow this afternoon, the 29 year-old Czech rider improved on Boardman's record by 259 metres, riding 49.700 km in the hour.

In his attempt, Sosenka was using a 3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel and 190 mm cranks, with his [track] bike weighing a total of 9.8 kg (21.6 lb). The reason for the heavy wheel was that although it was harder to get up to speed, it was easy to maintain it.

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
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Old 09-14-20, 12:27 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post

Bike weight does matter, but not always predictably:


Cycling News Flash for July 19, 2005

Edited by Jeff Jones

Hour record broken by Sosenka in Moscow

By Shane Stokes

Ondrej Sosenka has surprisingly beaten the world hour record set by Britain's Chris Boardman in 2000. In Moscow this afternoon, the 29 year-old Czech rider improved on Boardman's record by 259 metres, riding 49.700 km in the hour.

In his attempt, Sosenka was using a 3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel and 190 mm cranks, with his [track] bike weighing a total of 9.8 kg (21.6 lb). The reason for the heavy wheel was that although it was harder to get up to speed, it was easy to maintain it.

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
Makes sense for an event like the hour. You essentially only have to accelerate once.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:35 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post

Bike weight does matter, but not always predictably:


Cycling News Flash for July 19, 2005

Edited by Jeff Jones

Hour record broken by Sosenka in Moscow

By Shane Stokes

Ondrej Sosenka has surprisingly beaten the world hour record set by Britain's Chris Boardman in 2000. In Moscow this afternoon, the 29 year-old Czech rider improved on Boardman's record by 259 metres, riding 49.700 km in the hour.

In his attempt, Sosenka was using a 3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel and 190 mm cranks, with his [track] bike weighing a total of 9.8 kg (21.6 lb). The reason for the heavy wheel was that although it was harder to get up to speed, it was easy to maintain it.

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
It's a flywheel.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:49 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
It's a flywheel.
If that's a flywheel, so are conventional bike wheels. Doubling or tripling the weight of a bike wheel hardly makes it a flywheel in the ordinary sense. The point is that the relationship between bike or wheel weight and speed, especially in South Florida, isn't as obvious as it might seem.
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Old 09-14-20, 12:53 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
If that's a flywheel, so are conventional bike wheels. Doubling or tripling the weight of a bike wheel hardly makes it a flywheel in the ordinary sense. The point is that the relationship between bike or wheel weight and speed, especially in South Florida, isn't as obvious as it might seem.
3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel is a flywheel.

Riding in a indoor velodrome with no wind on a closed course is a unique situation. Track bikes and custom ones that have only one use and that's to break a world record does not translate to real world uses.
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Old 09-14-20, 02:06 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel is a flywheel.

Riding in a indoor velodrome with no wind on a closed course is a unique situation. Track bikes and custom ones that have only one use and that's to break a world record does not translate to real world uses.
I've always thought of flywheels as involving much greater mass and higher speeds, such as the 3,000-rpm flywheels, several tons in weight, used in gyrobuses, but I concede that the heavy wheels used for that hour record ride act, in effect, as flywheels.

Again, though, the main point is that for bikes, lighter does not necessarily equal faster under all conditions, and especially on effectively dead flat terrain such as much of South Florida.

Last edited by Trakhak; 09-14-20 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 09-14-20, 02:17 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Again, though, the main point is that for bikes, lighter does not necessarily equal faster under all conditions, and especially on effectively dead flat terrain such as much of South Florida.
Try.... the new Trek Emonda is heavier than the previous version. But it's more aero and Trek claims it's faster.

So light weight alone don't equate to faster in all situations.
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Old 09-14-20, 03:02 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
I (and no one) said bike weight doesn't matter. I said...



Of course you'd be faster on a 12 lbs. bike than on a 22 lbs. bike. But when we're talking about 16 lbs. vs 19 lbs., for beginners, amateurs, club riders, etc., that little bit of weight is not the difference in who's riding off the front and who's getting dropped. That's the difference in having two full bottles vs two empty bottles.

The reason pros are on $10,000++ bikes is two-fold:
- They've maxed every other advantage, e.g. body weight, fitness, position, form, skill/strategy/tactics, etc.
- They're sponsored.

The reason I'm on an expensive bike is because I wanted an expensive bike and I can afford one... not because I thought I'd be faster. I know damn well, the only thing that'll make me faster is more training, better training... and less beer.
blasphemy
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Old 09-14-20, 09:13 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post

Bike weight does matter, but not always predictably:


Cycling News Flash for July 19, 2005

Edited by Jeff Jones

Hour record broken by Sosenka in Moscow

By Shane Stokes

Ondrej Sosenka has surprisingly beaten the world hour record set by Britain's Chris Boardman in 2000. In Moscow this afternoon, the 29 year-old Czech rider improved on Boardman's record by 259 metres, riding 49.700 km in the hour.

In his attempt, Sosenka was using a 3.2 kg (7 lb) wheel and 190 mm cranks, with his [track] bike weighing a total of 9.8 kg (21.6 lb). The reason for the heavy wheel was that although it was harder to get up to speed, it was easy to maintain it.

www.cyclingnews.com - the world centre of cycling
Well yeah, momentum helped him a lot to maintain his speed. This doesn’t compare well to me and my situation.
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Old 09-14-20, 09:23 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ryan_rides View Post
So... I bought my first ever bike with brakes and gears this year. I started cycling through BMX. Then I transitioned into riding single speed Fixed gear/track bikes. Never ran brakes on any of my bikes (except when I was a bike Messenger in downtown Miami). I've been hit 13 times in my life. Twice this year. Once in February and again in July. The accident in July totally destroyed my track bike. It was also a hit and run. A few of my friends helped me get a new 2021 Specialized Allez. The basic model. My LBS had it in stock at the time and I really needed another bike asap because I dont own a car. Getting a bike online worth buying was almost impossible. I love cycling and I get miles in. I'm not new to cycling by any means. I am new to having to spend SO damn much to upgrade these parts to gain speed. My bike is heavy. Easily weighsf 4 pounds more than my previous bike. I really want to get an entire new groupset(one by sram-rival) and new lighter and better wheels but that in itself is $2,000 +++++. So I'm forced to wait longer for more gains in speed and performance bike wise because I have to save so much more money. Is it worth getting not as expensive parts first? Or waiting to get the best?
Fix the rider and forget about better parts except for good tires, an aero jersey, latex tubes, and a razor to shave your legs.

Splurge for a road aero helmet if you're feeling rich - it's a bad value compared to the other improvements, but will do more for you than carbon fiber wheels ten times its price.

https://www.quora.com/What-would-improving-the-wheels-do-on-a-1-000-road-bike-bought-last-year/answer/Drew-Eckhardt

Spending $2000 on carbon fiber wheels only saves 1.5 out of 200 watts at 20 MPH and typical yaw angles, increasing to 4W at 30 MPH.

In the mountains, 500g lighter wheels only increase speed 0.7% cutting 25 seconds an hour or save 1.75 watts given a 70 kg rider on a 9 kg bicycle producing 250 watts.

If that 500 g was at the rim, it would only save that rider 0.079 kj accelerating from 0–20 MPH which is the energy needed to cover 12 feet at 20 MPH. Actual gains will be less.

The biggest gains come from the rider.
  • A diet can make the average American male 25% faster in the mountains. Even a 150 pound guy who’s thin by non-cycling standards can gain 10%.
  • A good training program can add 50 Watts in 3 months.
Per Drew Eckhardt's answer to Does upgrading your cycling equipment make a significant improvement on your performance?, better ways to improve speed with equipment and their power savings at 20 MPH include:
  • Spending $100 on nice tires which can save 15–20 watts. I like Continental GP4000SIIs which are a fast tire that’s long lasting and flat resistant. The GP5000 is better and available in widths up to 32mm.
  • Spending $50 on a previous season Louis Garneau custom program Mondo aero jersey size sample for 5–10 watts. With 80% of total drag from the rider that’s where the big gains are. Retail a jersey like that would run $150-$200.
  • Spending $30 on latex tubes for 2.6 - 6.0 watts. I wouldn’t do that if I wasn’t racing because they require adding air daily not once a week.
  • Spending $2 on a razor to shave your legs for 3–5 watts.
At $150-$180 aero road helmet saving 3 watts beats wheels but is far less cost effective than those other solutions.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-15-20 at 02:40 PM.
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Old 09-14-20, 09:31 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by ryan_rides View Post
So what you all are saying is that I should save my money and just buy the Specialized Allez Sprint Disc? By no means will I choose to remain to ride a bike with crappy parts and not upgrade them. That’s ridiculous. I’m not disagreeing with the fact that a power meter can help me train. Why would I put a power meter on a bike with Shimano Claris? Would you take your Toyota Yaris to a dyno?
A power driven training program using your current bicycle will do far more for your performance than a 15 pound UCI minimum weight bike with $2000 carbon fiber wheels and a $3600 SRAM Red eTap AXS gruppo.

Weight savings does nothing for you on flat ground, and the improvements up hill are proportional to the total change in weight. Five pounds off a 170 pound bike and rider combination climbing at 200W is only like having an extra 6W.

Conversely a good training plan will give you fifty watts in three months.

If I had a Yaris, I'd pay $600 for a 25% power increase.

Any road bike sold at a bicycle shop has great quality, although paying less nets fewer cogs and poorer aesthetics.

Last edited by Drew Eckhardt; 09-15-20 at 02:41 PM.
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Old 09-18-20, 04:58 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by big john View Post
It's supposed to be "strong, cheap, light". Ever hear of Rivendell? Definitely strong, heavy, and expensive.
Rivendell is about comfort not performance. An S class Mercedes weighs over 2 tonnes but smokes most Hondas.
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Old 09-18-20, 05:23 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
I The reason pros are on $10,000++ bikes is two-fold:
- They've maxed every other advantage, e.g. body weight, fitness, position, form, skill/strategy/tactics, etc.
- They're sponsored.

The reason I'm on an expensive bike is because I wanted an expensive bike and I can afford one... not because I thought I'd be faster. I know damn well, the only thing that'll make me faster is more training, better training... and less beer.
This guy...is at least honest about his reasons. I also agree with the statement above it.

Obviously performance is not the real reason he wants a flashy bike, the real reason is he wants to keep up with his mates and their flashy bikes (no pun intended). This is a cycling forum everyone likes flashy bikes, no reason needed.

As you've got the bad habit of getting hit or crashing, keep your current bike as a beater after you buy the flashy bike, so you don't get hit riding your flashy bike, also less wear on your flashy bike.

Just remember: your own weight rides the bike, you're not running carrying the bike on your back.
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