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Ticking sound in Zipp 404s

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Ticking sound in Zipp 404s

Old 09-21-20, 09:16 PM
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rousseau
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Ticking sound in Zipp 404s

Recently bought a pair of used Zipp 404 carbon tubulars, and after a few rides decided to have brand new tires glued on. Having got them back, there's now an annoying ticking sound coming from one of the wheels. It's not drivetrain-related, as the sound continues unabated when I stop pedalling. When I stop the bike I can't seem to produce the sound when I spin either wheel, which has me wondering if it's a hub problem?

Just to confuse things, the guy who glued them for me explained that there is now a piece of debris from the manufacturing process (bladder) stuck in the rim that you can hear when you shake the wheel, but this doesn't sound like the ticking sound I get when riding. Or does it?

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Old 09-21-20, 09:41 PM
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Sometimes the valve stem will make noise deep section wheels.
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Old 09-21-20, 11:12 PM
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Okay, this being my first experience with deep section rims, I didn't know about valve extender rattling. So does it sound like valve extender rattling in my video?
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Old 09-22-20, 04:02 AM
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I have something (hardened piece of glue, maybe?) in my front HED tubular. Makes a ticking sound, too, when spun. Can't really hear it on the road, though.
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Old 09-22-20, 04:05 AM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Okay, this being my first experience with deep section rims, I didn't know about valve extender rattling. So does it sound like valve extender rattling in my video?
That seems really loud and too distinct for the valve extender (in the past mine has been more of a rattle than a thump), but maybe? Put a piece of electrical tape around the valve extenders and see. I just punch a little hole in the middle so it goes around both sides.
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Old 09-22-20, 06:50 AM
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Find a straw of appropriate width (I find the green Starbucks straws to be narrower than average straws and work well), cut it to length (so that it only sticks up a tiny bit above the valve stem hole of the wheel), stick it over the valve stem and down into the wheel. This has usually solved any valve stem related ticking on my wheels.
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Old 09-22-20, 08:10 AM
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I've had ticking like that from a valve extender tapping the rim on each revolution. As Rubik suggested, a piece of electrical tape over it solved the issue.
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Old 09-22-20, 11:30 AM
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Having checked the valves, they're not loose at all, and do indeed have a piece of tape over them. However, the object caught inside the rim is really loud. I'll upload a video later.
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Old 09-22-20, 11:46 AM
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Something inside the rim only moves around at barely moving speeds, & valve stem rattle is usually also somewhat speed- dependent.

Deeper carbon wheels amplify sounds, so the source can be small.

Glue on the tread, poorly bonded section of tire, base tape thread hitting the brake shoe, debris embedded in the tread, loose spoke, spoke cross clicking, even tire sprue hitting a tight- clearance fork (unlikely w/ tubular tire).
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Old 09-22-20, 12:12 PM
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Does this sound like it could be making the ticking sound in the video in my first post? When I speed the spinning up the rattling seems less pronounced.


Last edited by rousseau; 09-22-20 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-22-20, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Something inside the rim only moves around at barely moving speeds, & valve stem rattle is usually also somewhat speed- dependent.

Deeper carbon wheels amplify sounds, so the source can be small.

Glue on the tread, poorly bonded section of tire, base tape thread hitting the brake shoe, debris embedded in the tread, loose spoke, spoke cross clicking, even tire sprue hitting a tight- clearance fork (unlikely w/ tubular tire).
These are all great ideas to investigate, thanks. I'm going to look into all of them.
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Old 09-22-20, 12:30 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
Something inside the rim only moves around at barely moving speeds, & valve stem rattle is usually also somewhat speed- dependent.

Deeper carbon wheels amplify sounds, so the source can be small.

Glue on the tread, poorly bonded section of tire, base tape thread hitting the brake shoe, debris embedded in the tread, loose spoke, spoke cross clicking, even tire sprue hitting a tight- clearance fork (unlikely w/ tubular tire).
This.
Anything loose inside the rim will attach itself to the rim at any moderate speed and won't make noise anymore. It may cause an imbalance, but not noise. What I hear in your first video is something like glue sticking and unsticking Is there a patch of glue on the tread sticking to the road? Although I would imagine if it were, it would slowly disappear as it got covered on dirt. Is part of the tire not completely glued to the rim? You wont hear these sounds by rotating the tire off the ground.

Also from the video there is a certain point on the wheel where the noise is. Find that point and look closely at touch points with the road or bike. You should be able to do that at slow speeds with weight on the wheel.
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Old 09-22-20, 12:52 PM
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That sounds like a nipple in the rim.
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Old 09-22-20, 12:59 PM
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Only with weight on, correct?

My Zipps had to be returned to the factory for a nipple swap due to an issue like this. It turned out there was some older type installed that did this. Where I would doubt those would still be in the wild, this was some years ago now, it could be....

As a side during the process of finding said I also was suggested to oil the spoke unions.
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Old 09-22-20, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
That sounds like a nipple in the rim.
It definitely wasn't there when I bought the wheels, but has been there since I picked them up from getting the new tires glued on. The guy who did them for me said that it was a remnant of the bladder used in the manufacturing process, and that try as he might, he couldn't get it out.

Not sure what to believe.
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Old 09-22-20, 01:55 PM
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remove the valve extender and wrap a small bit of electrical tape around the extender where it goes through the rim, re install. Sound should go away. To be sure that this is the source of the noise, tap the valve extender and you should hear the clack sound that you are experiencing while riding.
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Old 09-22-20, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox Farm View Post
remove the valve extender and wrap a small bit of electrical tape around the extender where it goes through the rim, re install. Sound should go away. To be sure that this is the source of the noise, tap the valve extender and you should hear the clack sound that you are experiencing while riding.
I just tried to do that, but the valve hole on the Zipp rim is so tight I can't jam the extender in even with only one layer of electrical tape on it. So I added another layer of electrical tape over top the valve, i.e. I popped the valve through it.

The valve seems tight, but 99.97% tight. Not 100%. When I press down on the bike and roll the wheel back and forth on the ground where the valve is I can make out a a tiny clicking sound. Is that getting louder and longer when I'm actually on the bike?

Thing is, why would a tiny clicking sound get louder and longer like in my first video? In that video it really does sound like a piece of tape or glue brushing against something, doesn't it?

Last edited by rousseau; 09-22-20 at 11:04 PM. Reason: Typo
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Old 09-22-20, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Fox Farm View Post
remove the valve extender and wrap a small bit of electrical tape around the extender where it goes through the rim, re install. Sound should go away. To be sure that this is the source of the noise, tap the valve extender and you should hear the clack sound that you are experiencing while riding.
Watch the second video.

That is 100% not the valve extender. There's something hard and small that is falling down through the rim as it's spun.
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Old 09-22-20, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
It definitely wasn't there when I bought the wheels, but has been there since I picked them up from getting the new tires glued on. The guy who did them for me said that it was a remnant of the bladder used in the manufacturing process, and that try as he might, he couldn't get it out.

Not sure what to believe.
I don't see how, when gluing a tire, he'd be able to know what was happening inside the rim. I also don't know how he could get a nipple or stone or whatever in there either, so I'm stumped.
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Old 09-22-20, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Watch the second video.

That is 100% not the valve extender. There's something hard and small that is falling down through the rim as it's spun.
Yep, there's something hard loose in the rear wheel, but once I start moving the centrifugal force keeps it from causing any noise. So my second video is actually irrelevant.
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Old 09-22-20, 08:04 PM
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Third video!

When I press down on the bike while rolling it back and forth I can produce a creaking sound in the location of the valve that I believe is the sound in my first video. It does actually sound like glue between two surfaces being pressed together and pulled apart, doesn't it?


What's the solution if it's a glue problem?
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Old 09-22-20, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
I don't see how, when gluing a tire, he'd be able to know what was happening inside the rim. I also don't know how he could get a nipple or stone or whatever in there either, so I'm stumped.
When rotating the rim on a truing stand, it's obvious if there's something rattling around, especially with carbon rims. Glue lumps, lost spoke nipples, bits of the rim. Often the bit can be worked out of the valve hole.

I once had a 2-3" piece of carbon fiber work loose inside a rim- too big to get out. I stuck it in place with some super glue.
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Old 09-22-20, 09:09 PM
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Originally Posted by rousseau View Post
Third video!

When I press down on the bike while rolling it back and forth I can produce a creaking sound in the location of the valve that I believe is the sound in my first video. It does actually sound like glue between two surfaces being pressed together and pulled apart, doesn't it?

https://youtu.be/bBfgnxiIB_k

What's the solution if it's a glue problem?

If it's glue tacking, the sound will probably go away shortly when some dirt gets in there. Were the rims clean when the tire was mounted?
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Old 09-22-20, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by woodcraft View Post
If it's glue tacking, the sound will probably go away shortly when some dirt gets in there. Were the rims clean when the tire was mounted?
The reason I took them to a shop in the first place was because I could not get the old glue off myself without resorting to chemicals, something I wasn't willing to do. The guy who did them said that the glue really was stuck on there good, and it took five or six passes (i.e. 5-6 days) with the stuff he uses to get them clean.

So, just keep riding and see if it goes away?
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Old 09-23-20, 02:05 AM
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Yes other than the annoying clicking related to your wheel rpm, just ride it. Or take it back to the shop who removed the glue and mounted the new tires.
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