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So It's Come To This?!

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So It's Come To This?!

Old 10-12-20, 02:33 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by Doctor Morbius
Except for the weight, I don't see anything too fantastic about it at all. Couldn't the 18 pound version cost about $2,500?

I'm sorry. I really like road bikes - and I like them simple and non-proprietary, just like this - but this price is ridiculous.
A basic Allez is $1100 MSRP and has a threaded BB, a round seat-post and rim brakes, nothing proprietary. The whole point of the bike is for bragging rights to the lightest frame. I'm sure its a phenomenal ride, and probably better suited to the wealthy weekend rider than a Tarmac SL7. Most people don't need the stiffness and aero advantages of SL7 (just look at the Roubaix sales figures). Specialized is just giving someone who wants to drop $15k+ on bike a way to spend their money.
It's basically the exact same design philosophy as Bianchi Specialissima, just Specialized managed to make it crazy light, and the Bianchi is only average weight (by super-bike standards).
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Old 10-12-20, 03:33 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by gsa103
It's basically the exact same design philosophy as Bianchi Specialissima, just Specialized managed to make it crazy light, and the Bianchi is only average weight (by super-bike standards).
Same as the Emonda SLR 10. I'm sure many were sold new at a discount after the year they were introduced.
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Old 10-12-20, 05:39 PM
  #78  
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Speaking of weiy

Instead of spending allot of money to she'd grams. Spend less on foot and lose some pounds
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Old 10-12-20, 05:54 PM
  #79  
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wut?
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Old 10-12-20, 06:24 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Madmonk1
Instead of spending allot of money to she'd grams. Spend less on foot and lose some pounds
Wut
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Old 10-12-20, 10:31 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Madmonk1
Speaking of weiy
Instead of spending allot of money to she'd grams. Spend less on foot and lose some pounds
Makes sense- if we just stop spending money on lead toe rings, we would lose so much weight.
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Old 10-13-20, 12:39 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Madmonk1
Instead of spending allot of money to shed grams. Spend less on foot and lose some pounds
Yeah, but then i have to quit cake and cola. I aint fast enough to sacrifice that just to be slightly less mediocre.

(And yes, my autocorrect often adds an unwanted apostrophe too. Starting a sentence with "Were" almost always results in "We're")
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Old 10-13-20, 01:19 AM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by dkatz1
My experience with really high end audio has been in mastering studios (mastering MY music) where they had speakers that were in the $40,000 to $100,000 range...and I don't know how those speakers compare to say, $20,000 speakers, but I do: in the two studios I've used for that purpose, the sound was fantastic.
I own a pari of Paradigm studio 60 speakers, which I think are great ((can't remember what they cost, but it was under $2000), but they don't faintly compare (nor, of course, does my amp, etc).
In high end audio, it is totally possible to find overpricced things that don't sound good, but the state of the art can be awfully great...
On the other hand, studio 1's, $40,000 spearks did the job just as well as studio 2's more than twice expensive, but I have NO idea which actually sounded better, or how they were different (the use of each being several years apart). But with both the experience was: WOW! I've lived in this music, but I never heard all of it until then.
Mastering studios have much better speakers than recording studios.
The law of diminishing returns apply fully to this. Typically speakers used in mastering facilities are not using near field Studio monitors that are designed to specifically NOT ďcolorĒ the sound of the mix & be as neutral as possible. They are designed to replicate the greatest example of what the recorded material is capable of. Iíve listened to JM Labs Grand UtopiaĎa, B&W Nautilus series, UREi Blue Cones & even old school EM Long Reference Monitors & I have never left unimpressed. Iíve recently become very fond of the newer QUAD ESLís & the proper subwoofer complement.
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Old 10-13-20, 09:40 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Cruiser2112
The law of diminishing returns apply fully to this. Typically speakers used in mastering facilities are not using near field Studio monitors that are designed to specifically NOT ďcolorĒ the sound of the mix & be as neutral as possible. They are designed to replicate the greatest example of what the recorded material is capable of. Iíve listened to JM Labs Grand UtopiaĎa, B&W Nautilus series, UREi Blue Cones & even old school EM Long Reference Monitors & I have never left unimpressed. Iíve recently become very fond of the newer QUAD ESLís & the proper subwoofer complement.
This is one reason I stopped paying attention to high end audio as soon as I bought my system 30 years ago - you can keep spending money forever, chasing the last little bit of performance. That way madness lies,
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Old 10-13-20, 10:13 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
This is one reason I stopped paying attention to high end audio as soon as I bought my system 30 years ago - you can keep spending money forever, chasing the last little bit of performance. That way madness lies,
I agree.

What I don't understand is why those that can't or won't pay that much for a bike are griping so much. It's too much money for me, but so are the other 12,000 dollar bikes. If 12,000 dollars was pocket change, and the Aethos had a pretty color paint job, I'd probably buy it and the other S-works too.

If that is what it cost for them to make and market, then let the market take care of that. Seems like some people are wanting a Volks-bike for all the people.
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Old 10-13-20, 10:53 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Cruiser2112
The law of diminishing returns apply fully to this. Typically speakers used in mastering facilities are not using near field Studio monitors that are designed to specifically NOT ďcolorĒ the sound of the mix & be as neutral as possible. They are designed to replicate the greatest example of what the recorded material is capable of. Iíve listened to JM Labs Grand UtopiaĎa, B&W Nautilus series, UREi Blue Cones & even old school EM Long Reference Monitors & I have never left unimpressed. Iíve recently become very fond of the newer QUAD ESLís & the proper subwoofer complement.
For me, I have a different preference. I have yet to hear a "studio grade" speaker that didnt bore me to tears. As a big classical music buff, my reference for audiophile music is the sound of an orchestra playing in a concert hall - and the closest thing I have heard to that comes from a 3W single-ended tube amplifier with zero feedback, terrible measurables and rolled off highs. Ideally paired with high quality horns (I still kick myself for selling my Klipschorns in the late 90s).

That said, the one solid state system that gave me similar goosebumps was a pair of Wilson Watt/Puppies fed by Krell/ML. Heard it at Stereophile editor Jonathan Atkinson's studio in NYC and I'd probably sacrifice atleast 5 random Bikeforum members to Satan to get me a pair of those.

I am down to my last pair of RCA 2A3s now.
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Old 10-13-20, 11:16 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by dkatz1
My experience with really high end audio has been in mastering studios (mastering MY music) where they had speakers that were in the $40,000 to $100,000 range...and I don't know how those speakers compare to say, $20,000 speakers, but I do: in the two studios I've used for that purpose, the sound was fantastic.
I own a pari of Paradigm studio 60 speakers, which I think are great ((can't remember what they cost, but it was under $2000), but they don't faintly compare (nor, of course, does my amp, etc).
In high end audio, it is totally possible to find overpricced things that don't sound good, but the state of the art can be awfully great...
On the other hand, studio 1's, $40,000 spearks did the job just as well as studio 2's more than twice expensive, but I have NO idea which actually sounded better, or how they were different (the use of each being several years apart). But with both the experience was: WOW! I've lived in this music, but I never heard all of it until then.
Mastering studios have much better speakers than recording studios.
I don't dispute that there aren't differences with expensive equipment in a professional environment. This would be the case for both bikes and audio gear. But when it comes to the consumer, there will come a point that you reach diminishing returns. In a mastering studio, EVERY variable is controlled. The acoustics of the room have been measured and accounted for. Speaker placement has likely been calculated to the millimeter. The users in that environment are professionals and can recognize and benefit from the differences.

The same sort of thing happens with bikes and pro users. It's the rest of us that will hit the wall at some point before we reach the upper end of the price scale.
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Old 10-13-20, 11:52 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
I agree.

What I don't understand is why those that can't or won't pay that much for a bike are griping so much. It's too much money for me, but so are the other 12,000 dollar bikes. If 12,000 dollars was pocket change, and the Aethos had a pretty color paint job, I'd probably buy it and the other S-works too.

If that is what it cost for them to make and market, then let the market take care of that. Seems like some people are wanting a Volks-bike for all the people.
Every hobby/interest/pursuit I've ever gotten involved in, there are always the higher levels of equipment that cost more than most enthusiasts can afford, and there are ALWAYS discussion threads on whether that item is "worth it", since its performance is only marginally better than something cheaper. And the answer is always, 'Somebody's willing to pay that much for it, so yeah, it's "worth it"'.

But turn it around, and rather than being outraged or amused or whatever about the marginal gains from godawfully expensive versions, consider how great it is to be able to afford versions that give you most of the same performance.
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Old 10-13-20, 12:20 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by genejockey
Every hobby/interest/pursuit I've ever gotten involved in, there are always the higher levels of equipment that cost more than most enthusiasts can afford, and there are ALWAYS discussion threads on whether that item is "worth it", since its performance is only marginally better than something cheaper. And the answer is always, 'Somebody's willing to pay that much for it, so yeah, it's "worth it"'.

But turn it around, and rather than being outraged or amused or whatever about the marginal gains from godawfully expensive versions, consider how great it is to be able to afford versions that give you most of the same performance.
And those stupid expensive takes often directly and indirectly affect the performance of the stuff at more attainable prices, whether through trickle-down tech or the re-investment of increased revenue from the attention garnered by a halo product. If Spec goes on to cut a couple hundred grams from models throughout their line-up, by applying what they've learned about layups through the Aethos R&D, some of the same people kvetching here will be more than happy to benefit from it on their next $2.5k bike.
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Old 10-13-20, 02:26 PM
  #90  
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How is it news to anyone that a major manufacturer is advertising a $12k bike?
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Old 10-13-20, 09:56 PM
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[QUOTE=Doctor Morbius;21735255]A non-proprietary road bike for $12,500.00. Who are they trying to kid?

Totally not what the bike is worth but who will pay for that.
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Old 10-14-20, 12:34 PM
  #92  
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Why spend $14,500 when you could spend $22,000?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274517937082

More money is more faster, right? That's the correct math here?
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Old 10-14-20, 01:05 PM
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If we are going to ebay, then how 'bout this fine old used bike?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GINO-BARTAL...8AAOSw3ZRfhcJu
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Old 10-14-20, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bahula03
Why spend $14,500 when you could spend $22,000?!

https://www.ebay.com/itm/274517937082

More money is more faster, right? That's the correct math here?
Originally Posted by ebay seller
Heck I'm hoping I don't sell it, hints the price!
That's a particularly tasty eggcorn.
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Old 10-14-20, 02:09 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by GlennR
Back in the 70's I had an "intoxicated" friend fall and bounce off the shelves... the record never skipped.

ROCK SOLID.... form follows function.

BTW, birch veneer plywood isn't cheap and more stable than solid wood.
Could probably make a killing in the "audiophile" world selling those CMU blocks as "HDCMU Vibration Isolating Units" or something like that.
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Old 10-14-20, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
That's a particularly tasty eggcorn.
Mentioning how many instagram views the bike's gotten was a "I've died of embarrassment on your behalf" experience. Everything truly *can* be found on eBay.
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Old 10-15-20, 06:00 AM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If we are going to ebay, then how 'bout this fine old used bike?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GINO-BARTAL...8AAOSw3ZRfhcJu
I was careful not to hit buy it now.
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Old 10-15-20, 10:25 AM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe
How is it news to anyone that a major manufacturer is advertising a $12k bike?
This. I'd be surprised to find any major manufacturer selling a Dura Ace Di2 bike with carbon wheels and a power meter for less than $11k. And almost all of them have bikes in this price range already. Specialized sells an $11k version of the Roubaix and multiple $12k+ versions of the Tarmac, plus they have MTB and TT bikes similarly priced. Just about every major manufacturer I can think of is selling top-tier bikes with similar price tags.

The $12,500 price tag of the Aethos is only notable because it's not being marketed as a race bike. People can somehow justify the cost of an S-Works Tarmac because Peter Sagan rides one, and they want to be fast like him. Spending that much on a bike that isn't specifically marketed as a race machine seems foreign, because for decades we have been told that racing, looking pro, using the same equipment as the pros, etc is the ultimate sign of being a "serious cyclist". Now there's suddenly a whole crop of aging cyclists (mostly men) who are never going to race again, and don't actually like how ultra-stiff aero road race bikes ride, but still desire and have the funds to own a top-of-the-line bike that fits all the expectations and images associated with it. On top of that... they no longer want to wear jerseys splashed with sponsor logos, or frames with manufacturer names stuck on every tube... in other words, "looking pro" is no longer the ultimate cycling status symbol.

The other main difference with the Aethos is that it's only being offered with top-tier groupsets. This might change over time, but it's notable that there's no $2200 version with alloy wheels and 105 components like you find with the Tarmac and Roubaix. My guess is that starts to ruin the marketing strategy. For now there is an aura of exclusivity around this model that isn't present on other bikes.

I have a feeling we will see more bikes like this in the future. I'm here for it. That Aethos is an awesome looking bike and I'd love to own one, but (like all top-tier bikes) it's WAY more than I could ever justify spending.
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Old 10-15-20, 10:41 AM
  #99  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi
That's a particularly tasty eggcorn.
"I mean I haven't met a signal person that hasn't went crazy over it!!"
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Old 10-15-20, 10:41 AM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Iride01
If we are going to ebay, then how 'bout this fine old used bike?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/GINO-BARTAL...8AAOSw3ZRfhcJu
Shipping kills the deal.
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