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Electronic Shifting - What's the Point?

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Electronic Shifting - What's the Point?

Old 10-21-20, 06:53 AM
  #76  
colnago62
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Has anybody seen or heard of a battery failure on Di2?
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Old 10-21-20, 07:32 AM
  #77  
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Riding over 10,000 miles/year and going through a rear shift cable every 3k miles convinced me to go di2, I'll never go back. Absolutely worth it for me. I don't even use synchro shift or any of the other features, I manually shift, and it's perfect, every single time.
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Old 10-21-20, 07:43 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
In the past year or two, I have twice had to ride home single-speed after a rear derailleur cable broke inside the shifter. A mechanical system is no guarantee of perfect reliability.
I have been dealing with the cable stops on the head tube of my Orbea Orca coming off. I have re epoxied them back on 8 times. Now Orbea is dealing with it as a warranty issue. So electronic shifting would render this problem irrelevant, however, the cost to upgrade to EPS (Campy) is significant.

Last edited by Fox Farm; 10-21-20 at 07:56 AM.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:20 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
Has anybody seen or heard of a battery failure on Di2?
I've only read of it, but I'm only aware of one other person who uses Di2.

My research when I purchased Di2 was the batteries seem to last about 5 years, then it's time for a $130 replacement. Generally they just start holding a charge for a shorter period and you find yourself plugging it in more frequently, which is not exactly a difficult procedure as it means it'll last a month or 2 instead of 4-6.

Most of the failures I've read about are with new battery's that are just bad from the get-go or fail in dead state right away, then it's a warranty replacement. It's also not a huge hardship to buy a spare and keep stored.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:39 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Most of the failures I've read about are with new battery's that are just bad from the get-go or fail in dead state right away, then it's a warranty replacement. It's also not a huge hardship to buy a spare and keep stored.
Yes it is. You can't store a Li Ion battery and expect it to work after a few years in storage. Batteries degrade even if you don't use them.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:41 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
SRAM R&D has had well over a decade to figure out how to make hydraulic brakes work well in 110F heat(unsuccessful), so I have little faith in their problem solving abilities.
SRAM had some problem with guides. As far as I know, other brakes are not affected. I can attest my hydraulic Rival brakes work well when it's hot.

We can talk about Shimano if you want, who have been unable to fix their brifters that get frayed cables in a couple of thousand miles.

I mean, nobody's perfect...
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Old 10-21-20, 08:43 AM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
Riding over 10,000 miles/year and going through a rear shift cable every 3k miles convinced me to go di2, I'll never go back. Absolutely worth it for me. I don't even use synchro shift or any of the other features, I manually shift, and it's perfect, every single time.
You could have replaced your badly engineered Shimano brifters with SRAM ones for a cheaper price and the problem would be solved for a lot less money.

I'm starting to think Shimano intentionally made a faulty design that breaks cables to make people go Di2.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:45 AM
  #83  
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This is looking like one of those threads.
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Old 10-21-20, 08:47 AM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
This is looking like one of those threads.
Another one of "those"
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Old 10-21-20, 08:58 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
Yes it is. You can't store a Li Ion battery and expect it to work after a few years in storage. Batteries degrade even if you don't use them.
I was thinking more of a user who might race and thus needs to absolutely have a functional battery for an event. Thus it's good to have a spare. I don't bother, I've 3 seasons and no issues.
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Old 10-21-20, 09:04 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
This is looking like one of those threads.
He should make a chiro appointment now - all of this reaching for excuses is going to throw his back out of whack.
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Old 10-21-20, 09:11 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
When a battery is old, it can happen than it runs from apparently full to flat in a few hours instead of 1000 miles or whatever the Di2 battery lasts. Even if you just charged it.
My experience is that there is noticeable degradation before this happens. Whether it takes much longer than usual to charge to gradually reduced runtime. I have not experienced a full to flat scenario without tell tail signs well before hand.
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Old 10-21-20, 09:27 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
Has anybody seen or heard of a battery failure on Di2?
I have ridden thousands of miles with people on SRAM or Shimano "battery" systems and never once had a ride interrupted by a dead battery or such. I have ridden numerous times with people who have shifting problems, most likely from an old, dirty cable.

Di2, eTap and EPS are the future for the road. I would also add, give people some credit. Tech that does not work, generally does not stick. Think about electronic shocks in the MTB world. They sucked, a fact that people figured out pretty quickly. Di2 and eTap are popular because they work and offer people something that makes it worth it.
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Old 10-21-20, 10:08 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by vespasianus View Post
I have ridden thousands of miles with people on SRAM or Shimano "battery" systems and never once had a ride interrupted by a dead battery or such.
With eTap you can easily check the battery level by the LED, green is good and red means you need to recharge after your ride. The shifter batteries lasted me 4 years so i'll just change then every 2 to be safe.

Odds are your car battery will leave you stuck before your bicycle battery.
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Old 10-21-20, 10:49 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
With eTap you can easily check the battery level by the LED, green is good and red means you need to recharge after your ride. The shifter batteries lasted me 4 years so i'll just change then every 2 to be safe.

Odds are your car battery will leave you stuck before your bicycle battery.
Yeah, I am sure it might happen and maybe people don't go out because they need to charge their system but honestly, I think that aspect is a lot of worry over nothing. If things can be improved upon, I am all for it. Companies should push the envelop and rethink things.
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Old 10-21-20, 11:10 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
A cable, pump, spoke wrench, multi tool, Swiss knife, patches a spare tube and derailleur hanger replacement. Is that a lot of stuff?
Yes.
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Old 10-21-20, 11:17 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Bah Humbug View Post
This is looking like one of those threads.
It's just a variation of the Through the Looking-Glass theme:

"Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

becomes

"Why, sometimes I make as many as six irrational arguments before breakfast."
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Old 10-21-20, 11:23 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
You could have replaced your badly engineered Shimano brifters with SRAM ones for a cheaper price and the problem would be solved for a lot less money.

I'm starting to think Shimano intentionally made a faulty design that breaks cables to make people go Di2.
I could have, but then I'd have to deal with SRAM's crappy shifting and drivetrain noise. I'm probably a Shimano fanboy, but it just works, reliably and quietly. Life is too short to worry about the extra cost when I know I can have perfect shifting on every ride.
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Old 10-21-20, 11:33 AM
  #94  
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I have 16,000 miles on my Di2 so far. The ease of use with winter gloves on was touched upon earlier, but what hasn't been mentioned (that I saw) was the ability (with Di2 at least) to simply hold the up/down shift button/lever and dump the entire rear cassette in either direction with a single press and hold. This is a great feature if you do lots of really cold winter riding with your thickest gloves on, and possibly like me, also with silk liners on underneath the gloves, where it becomes nearly impossible to find and feel the shift lever through your gloves, especially when the fingers get cold and numb'ish, let alone press the lever 9-10 times in a row in a mech. shifting system, when going from little ring to big ring, or vice versa. With Di2, just hold and dump!
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Old 10-21-20, 12:00 PM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer View Post
I could have, but then I'd have to deal with SRAM's crappy shifting and drivetrain noise. I'm probably a Shimano fanboy, but it just works, reliably and quietly. Life is too short to worry about the extra cost when I know I can have perfect shifting on every ride.
My SRAM drivetrain shifts smoothly and makes no noise. I don't know what you're talking about.

The only thing I can say against sram is that their hydraulic brakes are troublesome to bleed properly and tend to have more issues than shimano.

To be honest, I think that shimano engineering is generally better than sram, but their mechanical shifters that break cables every 2000 miles are a total crap that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
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Old 10-21-20, 12:07 PM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
...but their mechanical shifters that break cables every 2000 miles are a total crap that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
Their first generation featuring under-the-bar-tape shift cable routing had cable-chewing issues, but that was 10 years and a few generations ago. That, and "every 2000 miles," is an exaggeration; maybe some unlucky souls have experienced this, but it would be highly atypical.
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Old 10-21-20, 12:18 PM
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I'd been a scoffer too at one time. But electronic shifting does at least allow you to have wires that are easier to hide and run inside and out of sight. That makes cleaning the bike much easier enough that I now actually clean my bike regularly. If it hasn't already, electronic shifting can eliminate wires going between components for an even cleaner look and easier install/replace.

As others have mentioned it does seem to eliminate the once or twice a year times I readjusted my cable pulled DR's to keep them shifting perfectly. And trim is unnecessary. And with synchronized shifting, you don't particularly have to know what gear you are in. If you need a lower gear, just click for a lower gear. It'll figure out if it also needs to shift the front to make that happen.

Sure it's not for every body. But like all things new, the price gets lower slowly over time. Ten more years and cable pulled shifting might be just for the C&V forum folks.
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Old 10-21-20, 12:18 PM
  #98  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Agree that electronic should be cheaper than mechanical. However, not sure when or why the bike manufacturers would ever want to acknowledge this in their lineups -- right now, Di2 and eTAP models sit at the top and surely bring in the highest margins. Di2 came out over 10 years ago; there's been plenty of time for Shimano if they wanted to have already released a '105' level Di2 version, while at the same time I'd have to think by now, they've certainly recouped their R&D on electronic shifting (R&D often being the excuse used for why things cost what they cost).
I suspect it may partially be a marketing issue. I suspect it's harder to reduce weight in an electronic system, because all the electronics are going to be 99% the same. If you introduce 105 Di2, it's going to be a tough sell for DA Di2, if the only difference is 50 grams.

Originally Posted by mrblue View Post
Do you think Campagnolo will allow the EPS 12 speed technology to trickle down to Record and Chorus, or do you think it'll remain exclusive to Super Record? I would assume so, but how long do they typically wait?
Campagnolo will probably wait a very long time. They've built their entire brand on "heritage" at this point. At least in the US, I'm not sure there's even a market for Chorus electronic system. Who would that sell to, given that it would likely be priced above at Force/Ultegra? Basically, the market is someone who wants electronic shifting technology (not a traditionalist), but doesn't want Shimano or SRAM.
I suspect the European market may be different, in the US Campagnolo is only for custom bikes.
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Old 10-21-20, 01:01 PM
  #99  
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I have a different use case altogether - my wife has pretty bad arthritis in her hands, can't handle the force to operate mechanical shifters. Deore Di2 was thus the ticket for her 1x setup and it's worked famously for that. Quite reliable shifts, less maintenance for me EXCEPT one issue - she dropped the bike on its side a couple times right after getting it and each time the derailleur hanger had to be replaced and straightened. It's been a few years since that's happened, but I bought my own hanger straightening tool and keep a spare hanger in stock. I've seen some other notes like that on other forums - something about not having the spring in the derailleur to take the shock from a hit. This is not an issue for us, but it seems like it could be for mtn biking with all the crashes.
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Old 10-21-20, 01:30 PM
  #100  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
To be honest, I think that shimano engineering is generally better than sram, but their mechanical shifters that break cables every 2000 miles are a total crap that I wouldn't touch with a barge pole.
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Their first generation featuring under-the-bar-tape shift cable routing had cable-chewing issues, but that was 10 years and a few generations ago. That, and "every 2000 miles," is an exaggeration; maybe some unlucky souls have experienced this, but it would be highly atypical.
I've had a RD cable break (in the shifter) in less than 2,000 miles, and that was on latest-gen 105. Granted, I shift a lot, since it is pretty hilly around here.
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