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SRAM eTap AXS vs Dura Ace Di2

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SRAM eTap AXS vs Dura Ace Di2

Old 10-22-20, 07:22 PM
  #26  
GlennR
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
That's exactly why dealers exist. We get paid handle that. Communication to SRAM becomes much more streamlined and fact based that has gone through the lens of training and experience. They have our information on file. Makes the time on the phone and the transaction simple.

No OEM wants to spend outrageous tons of money on staffing teams of people who then have to try and diagnose technical issues with untrained people over the phone. That's the job of the computer/tech industry.
I had a problem with my Zipp 303s. The brakes would chatter and there was a lot of reside on the brake tracks. I called Zipp, got a real live person, in the USA, within 30 seconds. After a short discussion, I learned not to clean them with my 10:1 water/Simple green but to use acetone.. that's what they use in the factory.

That was 5 years ago and the brakes are quiet and stop on a dime.

If I had to go through a dealer i'd still have the problem.
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Old 10-23-20, 06:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
I had a problem with my Zipp 303s. The brakes would chatter and there was a lot of reside on the brake tracks. I called Zipp, got a real live person, in the USA, within 30 seconds. After a short discussion, I learned not to clean them with my 10:1 water/Simple green but to use acetone.. that's what they use in the factory.

That was 5 years ago and the brakes are quiet and stop on a dime.

If I had to go through a dealer i'd still have the problem.
Your LBS must be staffed by dolts.

This is day one stuff.
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Old 10-23-20, 07:02 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Your LBS must be staffed by dolts.

This is day one stuff.
Nope... know the guys well. I never asked them since Zipp answered the phone. I rather eliminate the middle man and keel the lines of communication short.
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Old 10-23-20, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
. I never asked them since Zipp answered the phone. I rather eliminate the middle man and keep the lines of communication short.
You're the one that said you would still have the problem

Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
If I had to go through a dealer i'd still have the problem.
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Old 10-23-20, 10:19 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You're the one that said you would still have the problem
Because there would be a back and forth. I dell the dealer, the dealer talks to the vendor. The vendor asks for more info to the dealer, the dealer than talks to me. I then tell the dealer, the dealer tells the vendor and it just continues.

Ever have a email or text that instead of replying, you call since you know there will be follow up questions?

Like i said... i rather cut out the middle man.

In in some cases the end user/owner knows more than the dealer or the vendor's tech guy. After all the end user/owner actually uses the product where the dealer and tech person most likely does not.
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Old 10-23-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Because there would be a back and forth. I dell the dealer, the dealer talks to the vendor. The vendor asks for more info to the dealer, the dealer than talks to me. I then tell the dealer, the dealer tells the vendor and it just continues.

Ever have a email or text that instead of replying, you call since you know there will be follow up questions?

Like i said... i rather cut out the middle man.

In in some cases the end user/owner knows more than the dealer or the vendor's tech guy. After all the end user/owner actually uses the product where the dealer and tech person most likely does not.
that’s exactly why SRAM doesn’t have a number that customers can call. Any shop employee should be able to answer that type of question.
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Old 10-23-20, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
that’s exactly why SRAM doesn’t have a number that customers can call. Any shop employee should be able to answer that type of question.
This - ^

GlennR - you're living in your world where you feel like you know the appropriate questions to ask. The reality is that, by far, the cycling public is the last person that needs to be talking to the OEM. If you have a shop that can't seem to solve problems on their own or effectively communicate with the OEM to solve higher level problems then you need to find a better shop.

The example you gave is definitely something that never would have gone back tot he OEM if you had walked into my shop. It's a great example of a call they didn't need to get and why dealers get compensated financially to handle customer's issues.

Think about it. Let's say you drive a Ford. You're saying you want to be able to call the engineers at Ford to ask them your everyday problems instead of talking to the mechanic in the local dealership. In that scenario hopefully you can start to understand how untenable it is to allow direct communication between the public and the engineers at the OEM. "There are people for that" and they are the dealers.
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Old 10-23-20, 01:13 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
Think about it. Let's say you drive a Ford. You're saying you want to be able to call the engineers at Ford to ask them your everyday problems instead of talking to the mechanic in the local dealership. In that scenario hopefully you can start to understand how untenable it is to allow direct communication between the public and the engineers at the OEM. "There are people for that" and they are the dealers.
Ford dealerships work on Fords. Their mechanics are factory trained. Most shops sell multiple products are their staff is not factory trained. So a shop that sells Zipp, Enve, Campy, Shimano,Reynolds, Mavic, Roval and many others, they might not know what is safe to use to clean the brake residue off.

The last think you want to do is use the wrong product and damage the finish or the wheel.

I rather talk to the horse's mouth, then possibly the other end of the animal.

Another example... I had a fender of my vintage car repainted. When I brought it home I laid it on moving mat, masked off the edges and sprayed undercoat on the inside. I rolled it over to get the area I missed. When i rolled if back I found I rolled it into some overspray and now had undercoat on the fresh paint. I called the restoration shop and asked for the painter but got the shop manager. What he told me didn't make sense so i asked for the painter to call me when he was available. An hour later he called and told me what to use and if I used what the manager said it would of dulled the fresh paint.

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Old 10-25-20, 07:05 PM
  #34  
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speedplay basically only makes very small convenient pedals. they added walkable cleats later.

the major features are a small lightweight platform, adjustable float, and a light action easy to release version.

They are notorious for poor dealer support, and aggressive defense of IP to the extent of limiting accessories and compatible products.

I think. Others in the actual know can expand, refute or refine.
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Old 10-26-20, 08:51 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Some companies innovate and build quality components, other companies buy companies that build quality components.
I hear SRAM is interested in buying two companies called Better Engineering and Better Reliability. So far they have not been able to come up with enough funds to make the move.
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Old 10-26-20, 09:04 AM
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Originally Posted by GlennR View Post
Ford dealerships work on Fords. Their mechanics are factory trained. Most shops sell multiple products are their staff is not factory trained. So a shop that sells Zipp, Enve, Campy, Shimano,Reynolds, Mavic, Roval and many others, they might not know what is safe to use to clean the brake residue off.

I rather talk to the horse's mouth, then possibly the other end of the animal.
The thing is Glenn, they don't want to talk to you. That's why they don't list a number for you to call
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Old 10-26-20, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
The thing is Glenn, they don't want to talk to you. That's why they don't list a number for you to call
I can feel their pain. However I can also feel Glenn's pain.

The back and forth game of whisper that bureaucracies seem to love is the single biggest time suck in business and in trying to get anything done in life.

Every single additional person that information has to pass through is another layer of distortion and marginal competence that ultimately makes it maddening in the extreme.

Simple things, yeah, ask the local guys. But I've had issues where even the Mfr reps were clueless, and the local guys were far less motivated to get it resolved than I was. Cars, bikes, computers, electronics, appliances, you name it.

Also, the local guys usually only "know" what they've been told or seen maybe for one brand of one product, and that is often NOT the solution that engineering would recommend for some other brand or product. I still cant get straight answers about tubeless sealer from the local shops. (Well ok, I haven't asked since 2018, but at that point...)

It's all good until the "industry" tries to gatekeep out of insecurity to protect their relevance, but then fails to be both competent and diligent. At that point, I bypass them with extreme prejudice.
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Old 10-26-20, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
I can feel their pain. However I can also feel Glenn's pain.


It's all good until the "industry" tries to gatekeep out of insecurity to protect their relevance, but then fails to be both competent and diligent. At that point, I bypass them with extreme prejudice.
I understand Glenn's point of view, I just don't agree with him.

Constantly answering questions from the general public is a massive time suck, because the consumer is often clueless.
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Old 10-26-20, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
The thing is Glenn, they don't want to talk to you. That's why they don't list a number for you to call
Thanks Capt. Obvious.
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Old 10-26-20, 11:25 AM
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It's gone both ways and depends on the size of the company. Saris dialed back their margins to the point where they essentially brought all powertap sales back in house. That meant they needed to have public facing support. They did that.

Then they sold to SRAM and moved powertap to Quarq. I don't know what the forward facing side of that is like but I do often have customers that call and say they have spoken with them and are now looking to go through me.
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Old 10-26-20, 07:04 PM
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I understand Glenn's point of view, I just don't agree with him.

Constantly answering questions from the general public is a massive time suck, because the consumer is often clueless.
I'd say 80% of consumers are clueless while only 50% of the local outlets are clueless. Dealing with either drives me bonkers.

I had one LBS (Trek, Specialized and Giant dealer) for 10 years... knew everything, would order anything from a phone call (relationship) gave me competitive pricing, and would call vendors to research the hard stuff. He got literally 100% of my business unless he just plain told me to order something online (like tires, his tire inventory was all useless to me and he couldn't compete even ordering for me).

He retired and sold his space to a competing local chain 4-5 years ago. I have yet to find an LBS to replace him that can add any value over mail order and calling the vendors myself.

Last edited by nycphotography; 10-31-20 at 04:56 PM. Reason: typos
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Old 10-27-20, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by nycphotography View Post
I'd say 80% of consumers are clueless while only 50% of the local outlets are clueless. Dealing with either drives me bonkers.

I had one LBS (Trek, Specialized and Giant) for 10 years... knew everything, would order anything from a phone call (relationship) gave me competitive pricing, and would call vendors to research the hard stuff. He got literally 100% of my business unless he just plain told me to order something online (like tires, his inventory was all useless to me and he couldn't compete even ordering for me).

He retired and sold his space to a competing local chain 4-5 years ago. I have yet to find an LBS replace him that can add any value over mail order and calling the vendor to.
That describes how I do business. I have a solid loyal following as a result.
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Old 10-27-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
That describes how I do business. I have a solid loyal following as a result.
the first time I read that post, I thought you wrote it.
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Old 10-27-20, 02:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
That describes how I do business. I have a solid loyal following as a result.
If only you were on long island side of NYC. sigh.
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