Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Moving forward

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Moving forward

Old 10-30-20, 12:49 PM
  #1  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Moving forward

Hey everyone, I'm sure with so much time passing everybody would think that the pedal had fallen by the wayside. Not even close! One of the people on this forum had brought up ISO testing that we'd need to go through. We have finally made it through the brutal testing. Below is the copy showing we've gone through it. We had to make 2 changes on the pedal to get through the testing. We had to go up 1 bearing size and change the material in the inner core. But we have finally succeeded. Since we have gotten through the testing just a few days ago we have started all of our ordering of components. Just to let people know how hard it is to come up with a new product and carry it through, we had already ordered the cleats long ago only to find out that the rubber non-slip padding would not adhere to the specific nylon we used. The molder had made a mistake, which unfortunately was at our expense. Anyway we have gotten all the correct materials picked out and they are being re-run as I type this. Anyway I look forward to getting back into this forum and I'll keep people updated of the progress.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Likes For Pitbull pedal:
Old 10-30-20, 03:18 PM
  #2  
Zaskar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 473
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 78 Times in 53 Posts
Am I understanding that correctly - basically, the test simulated a 200 lbs rider pedaling for 20 hours? That hardly seems "brutal" - it's about two week's worth of riding for most cyclists.

My current pedals have (and this is admittedly a wild as estimation based on 4,500 miles/yr; factoring speed, cadence, coasting...)... roughly 3,000,000 cycles on the same bearings - with no failures. 1/30th of that - in a lab setting with no dirt, water/rain, etc. - just seems so far from the expected life of a pedal to be a significant data point.

I must be misunderstanding the tests.
Zaskar is offline  
Likes For Zaskar:
Old 10-30-20, 04:08 PM
  #3  
mgopack42 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: Los Banos, CA
Posts: 631

Bikes: 2020 Argon 18 Krypton Pro, 2012 Pinarello FP Quatro, 1994 Specialized Allez, 1985 Masi 3V Volumetrica.

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 223 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 94 Posts
Good luck, I had to go searching for the previous threads to see what you were talking about. Looks like an interesting product idea.
mgopack42 is offline  
Old 10-30-20, 05:24 PM
  #4  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,138

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 346 Times in 166 Posts
You got a “C”?
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 10-30-20, 08:09 PM
  #5  
bahula03
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 286
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 27 Times in 14 Posts
Originally Posted by znomit View Post
You got a “C”?
Not that I disagree with the sentiment here but "C: Compliant; Product meets specified standard"
bahula03 is offline  
Likes For bahula03:
Old 10-30-20, 10:32 PM
  #6  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,138

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 346 Times in 166 Posts
A 40cm drop test? So it's maybe less durable than an iPhone screen?
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ipho...n-tough-glass/
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 10-31-20, 10:15 AM
  #7  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
Am I understanding that correctly - basically, the test simulated a 200 lbs rider pedaling for 20 hours? That hardly seems "brutal" - it's about two week's worth of riding for most cyclists.
My current pedals have (and this is admittedly a wild as estimation based on 4,500 miles/yr; factoring speed, cadence, coasting...)... roughly 3,000,000 cycles on the same bearings - with no failures. 1/30th of that - in a lab setting with no dirt, water/rain, etc. - just seems so far from the expected life of a pedal to be a significant data point.
I must be misunderstanding the tests.
We thought the same thing when we got into this testing. We had no idea how bad it really was. If you just think about it for a second, riding your bike how long do you really have 200lbs on the pedal at any one time? This test puts 200lbs onto the pedal and spins it for 100k revolutions consecutively. No coasting or brakes, nothing. The friction causes heat which causes fatigue which then causes failure. Trust me that portion of the test is one of the hardest to get through.

Originally Posted by mgopack42 View Post
Good luck, I had to go searching for the previous threads to see what you were talking about. Looks like an interesting product idea.
Thanks, I think that we've finally gotten it perfected. As we have now made it through all the testing for the original pedals and our latest pedal model is down to 95g each which will need to go through the same ISO testing.


Originally Posted by znomit View Post
You got a “C”?
Yes, as the person below stated it means compliant.

Originally Posted by bahula03 View Post
Not that I disagree with the sentiment here but "C: Compliant; Product meets specified standard"
Thanks you are correct.


Originally Posted by znomit View Post
A 40cm drop test? So it's maybe less durable than an iPhone screen?
https://www.cnet.com/news/apple-ipho...n-tough-glass/
No this impact is ridiculous. I'm sure some engineer or someone on this forum can figure out the mathematical equation of the impact test. You drop 34lbs from 16" high into the center of the pedal. The 34lbs impacts the pedal with only a very small area of impact. It is actually a radius. I'm sure that the 34lbs traveling 16" creates an enormous impact vs just thinking of it as 34lbs. We had to change the center core to a different material to absorb this impact.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 10:34 AM
  #8  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,703
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4555 Post(s)
Liked 1,651 Times in 898 Posts
Pibull Pedals

The pedals we've all been waiting for.

noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 10-31-20, 11:21 AM
  #9  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Just stop, if you're not going to be a future customer that is alright. Just have a great day and go for a bike ride.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 11:54 AM
  #10  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,703
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4555 Post(s)
Liked 1,651 Times in 898 Posts
Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
Just stop, if you're not going to be a future customer that is alright. Just have a great day and go for a bike ride.
Maybe you should pay for some advertising on the forum.
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 10-31-20, 12:21 PM
  #11  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Please lets not get into this, this is not a big sales pitch. A lot of people on here have given me wonderful advice and it has helped us through this journey. The whole pedal was redesigned based on suggestions we got. Have a great day.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 10-31-20, 12:29 PM
  #12  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,703
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4555 Post(s)
Liked 1,651 Times in 898 Posts
Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
Please lets not get into this, this is not a big sales pitch.
No, it's a subtle sales pitch.
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 10-31-20, 03:27 PM
  #13  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,138

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 346 Times in 166 Posts
You only got these tested because someone on BF told you it was necessary?
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 10-31-20, 04:01 PM
  #14  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 6,319

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3223 Post(s)
Liked 534 Times in 389 Posts
Good luck with your endeavors. Since Speedplay (aka Wahoo) seems to be bowing out of the market, it can't hurt to have other alternatives. This video though makes me a bit concerned about how it might be too easy to clip out inadvertently. And/or how much upward pull can you put on this pedal (eg. climbing) and stay clipped in?

ie. at about 1'50" in
Sy Reene is offline  
Likes For Sy Reene:
Old 10-31-20, 04:47 PM
  #15  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,138

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 345 Post(s)
Liked 346 Times in 166 Posts
Just put ceramic bearings in it and people will be banging your door down.
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 11-01-20, 09:32 AM
  #16  
MakiNn
Senior Member
 
MakiNn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 178

Bikes: Bianchi Sempre Pro

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Reminds me of these, https://www.bikeradar.com/news/ultra...ed_slideshow=1

in the video they talk about losing crits and races not being able to clip in super fast, Racing in the D1 USA crits, you don't lose anything off the start in the P1/2 races, they actually start pretty slow off the roll then speed up.
MakiNn is offline  
Likes For MakiNn:
Old 11-01-20, 11:47 AM
  #17  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12,492

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5979 Post(s)
Liked 807 Times in 457 Posts
I had been wondering what happened to you guys.

My one worry might be pedalling backwards .... and to some degree, pedalling with my heels down---neither of which are generally how I ride, but both being things I might do at some point during a ride.

If you are really at 190 g for the pair that's not too bad. I assume he cleats cannot be recessed into a shoe? I also assume the cleats mount on a common two-or three-bolt shoe?

Post updates when you have them please.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 11-02-20, 12:22 PM
  #18  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by znomit View Post
You only got these tested because someone on BF told you it was necessary?
We always thought about having some type of 3rd party testing, but I believe that it was someone on here that had guided us to the correct test.


Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Good luck with your endeavors. Since Speedplay (aka Wahoo) seems to be bowing out of the market, it can't hurt to have other alternatives. This video though makes me a bit concerned about how it might be too easy to clip out inadvertently. And/or how much upward pull can you put on this pedal (eg. climbing) and stay clipped in?
ie. at about 1'50" in
Just so happens that I have an answer for that, our pedal system has very fine adjustments on how hard to engage/disengage. On its lowest setting it takes roughly 8lbs of heel turning to release from the pedal. With 1 full turn of our adjustment it takes 17lbs of heel turning to disengage. With only a 1/4 turn more it brings it up to 23lbs to disengage. I think that there is plenty adjustment to meet everyone's requirements. As with each 1/4 turn it makes it that much harder to release. Great question about the upwards pull, we were amazed on how efficient they are. On the weakest setting with your foot basically in a flat position, you can pull up with over 30lbs. We believe that even that is hard to achieve with the other foot mashing the pedal down on the other side.


Originally Posted by znomit View Post
Just put ceramic bearings in it and people will be banging your door down.
I wish it was that easy but we know how difficult it is to bring anything new to market. We're not trying to dominate the pedal industry, we just feel like we've come up with a great idea that works very well.


Originally Posted by MakiNn View Post
Reminds me of these, in the video they talk about losing crits and races not being able to clip in super fast, Racing in the D1 USA crits, you don't lose anything off the start in the P1/2 races, they actually start pretty slow off the roll then speed up.
As far as racing goes I guess there are many avenues to look at. We just tried to come up with a pedal with 360 degrees of entry to make it the fastest and we believe the safest pedal as you do not have to look down nowhere near as long to engage and your eyes can be back up looking at other bikes or if there is traffic.


Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
I had been wondering what happened to you guys.
My one worry might be pedalling backwards .... and to some degree, pedalling with my heels down---neither of which are generally how I ride, but both being things I might do at some point during a ride.
If you are really at 190 g for the pair that's not too bad. I assume he cleats cannot be recessed into a shoe? I also assume the cleats mount on a common two-or three-bolt shoe?
Post updates when you have them please.
As far as pedaling backwards haha, I'm not super familiar with it other than I might do it from some reason every blue moon. As far as my heel down I can't say that I'm familiar with that either, the pedal is designed to be basically flat footed or heel up, as you push into the pedal stroke in a downward motion which drives your foot into the cleat. As far as the weight at 190g we think that it is the lightest pedal on the market, not 100% sure. Our cleats go into a 3 hole road bike shoe and with the design we feel that they are one of the most walkable road bike pedals on the market, as your foot just rolls forward onto the cleat as you walk since there is no flat spot.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 11-03-20, 07:41 AM
  #19  
Maelochs
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 12,492

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 142 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5979 Post(s)
Liked 807 Times in 457 Posts
I notice when I pedal backwards---at stoplights to make sure that I am fully in a lower gear, in caser I shifted down at the last minute, and to inch forward at lights or intersections.

Last night I was in a long line of cars at a particularly annoying intersection--I usually won't go that route at certain times of day, but yesterday, I looked at the light, not the clock .... I forgot the clocks moved back ....

My technique is to keep my left foot clipped in and my right on the ground, and as each car moves up, I crank halfway with my left foot, then bring my foot back up---very low force---and maybe do another half stroke if I need to---but I keep the left pedal just past top dead center, ready to thrust, while the other foot keeps me upright.

The way you explain the pressure needed to clip out, this wouldn't be an issue with your pedals.

190 g is pretty good---a bunch of my bikes use Time Xpresso pedals which are really light but hard to find, and really expensive---i use knock-offs because the originals are out of production---but they also have occasional durability issues. 190 g is on par with the Xpressos and better than all the Shimano-style pedals, as far as I recall, (Ultegras run 250 g/pair) and if they are as easy to use and as durable as it looks like they could be ...

One small issue might be the lack of platform---I imagine the cleat plate has to be pretty wide and long to spread the stress.

Anyway----I will be interested to see what these things look like when they finally things come to market. I am not looking forward to buying several sets, but when the Xpressos I have on a few bikes wear out---and the remaining pair or two I have on the shelf do also--I will be looking for a light and reliable option.

Too bad you couldn't have gotten into production before I was forced to retire. Throwing money around was easy then.
Maelochs is offline  
Likes For Maelochs:
Old 11-03-20, 08:39 AM
  #20  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
As far as back pedaling I've never thought of trying it that way. I'll give it a shot though as I try to think ahead and get into the gear that I want to be starting back up with. Sometimes I'm off though.

Now as far as keeping your left foot clipped in that would be the traditional way that I would say most people ride. I would say they do this so they don't have to fumble around getting both feet re-clipped. I think that is where our pedal comes into play. With our 360 degree entry we feel that we're the fastest and easiest to engage. So when you pull up to a stop light or something by yourself or in a group ride you can take both feet out to stretch your calves then simply put your left foot back in and as you push off your right pedal comes up which is basically a round shaft and you just push your foot forward in a power stroke fashion and your eyes can go up to look for traffic or the rider in front of you that was struggling to get clipped in haha.

We do feel that we're very secure with these pedals holding you in as they are fully adjustable tension wise.

As far as durability we are planning these pedals to have a lifetime warranty on the inner axle & outer housing. The inner bearings are like any other pedal and meant to wear and we'll be having a replacement bearing package. Put these sealed bearings should last for years and years and years.

As far as the cleat plate you are correct, it is basically the full width of a road bike shoe and it is a glass filled nylon material that is a very good structural component, it also has a rubber nonslip pad all the way across. I do feel that the better the road bike shoe that you buy, meaning stiffer, it would add to the strength of our system. But it does work with any 3 holed road bike shoe.

Once we get everything manufactured and boxed we're planning to send out 75-100 boxes across the country to different people such as yourself, you-tubers and bike clubs. Obviously we'll be pursuing other things at the same time.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 11-03-20, 10:26 AM
  #21  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 28,019
Mentioned: 196 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12073 Post(s)
Liked 3,992 Times in 2,100 Posts
Puncture wound risk?
indyfabz is offline  
Likes For indyfabz:
Old 11-03-20, 11:35 AM
  #22  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
This has been discussed many, many times and we do not feel that there is any great risk of injury. We have a large 5/8ths of an inch blunt end to help prevent any issues. But riding a bike in any form you could have multiple issues in a wreck, from hitting other objects or other bicycles. Just as it would be so easy for the large chain ring to gash your leg or if you rolled across a fellow cyclist in a wreck. There is always some odd thing that could happen on any given day.
Pitbull pedal is offline  
Old 11-03-20, 11:44 AM
  #23  
blacknbluebikes
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 500

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 142 Times in 67 Posts
Congrats on getting this far. I know how tough it really is to get products to market. all the way to market. I would think the triathlon world would be especially interested. Hang tough. Only 10,000 more trolls to pass.
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 11-03-20, 09:08 PM
  #24  
MakiNn
Senior Member
 
MakiNn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 178

Bikes: Bianchi Sempre Pro

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 41 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 11 Times in 7 Posts
Originally Posted by Pitbull pedal View Post
As far as racing goes I guess there are many avenues to look at. We just tried to come up with a pedal with 360 degrees of entry to make it the fastest and we believe the safest pedal as you do not have to look down nowhere near as long to engage and your eyes can be back up looking at other bikes or if there is traffic.
Wait whose looking down at their pedals still? HEHE jk... Do you have any data on pressure plates compared to pedals on the market? for example shimano/look use the pedal as the platform where the pressure is used to create power. Speedplay is opposite where the pedal on the bike acts more like the cleat and the pressure comes from the shoe/cleat. is this similar to your product?
MakiNn is offline  
Old 11-04-20, 09:58 AM
  #25  
Pitbull pedal
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 61
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 28 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes View Post
Congrats on getting this far. I know how tough it really is to get products to market. all the way to market. I would think the triathlon world would be especially interested. Hang tough. Only 10,000 more trolls to pass.
Thanks it has been an interesting adventure. Again we're not trying to take over the pedal industry, we're just a couple guys with a good idea.


Originally Posted by MakiNn View Post
Wait whose looking down at their pedals still? HEHE jk... Do you have any data on pressure plates compared to pedals on the market? for example shimano/look use the pedal as the platform where the pressure is used to create power. Speedplay is opposite where the pedal on the bike acts more like the cleat and the pressure comes from the shoe/cleat. is this similar to your product?
Like I had said in some prior statements, we're just some guys who have come up with a good idea for a round pedal. I'm really not for sure how they come up with where the transfer of power comes from, but as long as it comes in that is what matters. I would say that on our pedal, since it is just a round shaft we are counting on all of the power and stiffness is coming from our glass filled cleat and the stiffness of a quality road shoe or any road shoe would be sufficient. Sorry for trying to come up with an answer, but I just do not really know the specific.
Pitbull pedal is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.