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New Italian Bike Advice?

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New Italian Bike Advice?

Old 11-11-20, 09:34 AM
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AidanS
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New Italian Bike Advice?

Hi all,



New here and hope this is the right place to post this.



Iím looking to buy my first serious road bike, Iíve put on few pounds since covid started and itís time to get of the sofa and back out on the bike.



Last bike (a giant defy) was stolen so Iím looking for a new replacement and Iíve always dreamed of owning an Italian bike.



Originally I was looking at the Bianchi Via nirone 7 105(Ä1300), but itís out of stock until summer 21. The next endurance bike in their line up the Infinito Xe(Ä2850) is way outside my budget of Ä1800



Bike shop has Bianchi Sprint 105 Rim brake in stock in my size (Ä2100) and a Wilier Gtr Team 105 Rim Brake.(Ä1750)



Both race bikes, Iíve only ever owned endurance bikes so Iím wondering will a race bike be to aggressive for me in the long term. I donít plan on very long rides but I do live in a mountainous area.



Other options I was looking at was Orbea Orca tiagra Disc(Ä1950), but my heart longs for Bianchi Celeste.



Any advice? Save up extra? Wait for Nirone 7? Try Race geometry?



Thanks

AidanS
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Old 11-11-20, 10:03 AM
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Colnago? Pinarello?
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Old 11-11-20, 10:06 AM
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Orbea is Spanish.
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Old 11-11-20, 10:10 AM
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Ops
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Old 11-11-20, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Reflector Guy View Post
Colnago? Pinarello?
None in my price range
Originally Posted by cuevťlo View Post
Orbea is Spanish.
I know but just an other opinion bike shop has in stock in my price range
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Old 11-11-20, 10:23 AM
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We know what your preferred colour is, what about frame material? And wheels, since most stock wheels need upgrading, and you say you will be doing lots of climbing.

My preference is to buy used, and build out the frame to suit me, using parts I have on hand. But that only works for me because I have already have tools and everything else.

Probably the biggest thing you could do to maximize your money invested would be to buy used. Here in the US, $1,000 buys a whole lotta used bike, in fact I could get 2 very nice used bikes here for that much, needing only a few minor parts and some adjusting.
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Old 11-11-20, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
We know what your preferred colour is, what about frame material? And wheels, since most stock wheels need upgrading, and you say you will be doing lots of climbing.

My preference is to buy used, and build out the frame to suit me, using parts I have on hand. But that only works for me because I have already have tools and everything else.

Probably the biggest thing you could do to maximize your money invested would be to buy used. Here in the US, $1,000 buys a whole lotta used bike, in fact I could get 2 very nice used bikes here for that much, needing only a few minor parts and some adjusting.
I was originally only looking at alloy bikes but decided to up budget to take into consideration for carbon. I plan to upgrade as needed, so cheap wheels starting out donít bother me.
Sorry I forgot to mention that bike needs to be new to qualify for government tax grant. Will be getting nearly Ä700 off rrsp
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Old 11-11-20, 02:20 PM
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What are you thinking is more aggressive about the other bikes you listed compared to your Defy?

Do you know about what your saddle to bar drop was on the Defy? Since it sounds like you can see, smell and touch the other bikes in a shop, then you should be able to look at them and determine if new they have so many spacers under the stem that they are no more aggressive than your Defy.
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Old 11-11-20, 02:30 PM
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Pinarello aggressively sells off their older models at the end of the year. This year might be harder than normal but it's worth paying attention to see what you can find.
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Old 11-11-20, 02:35 PM
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Despite the celeste paint job, I doubt very many Bianchis have been actually built in Italy in recent years. A minor point. I naively assumed for several years that my BMC was built in Switzerland, because of all the Swiss flags on on the frame, until the day I saw the Made in Taiwan sticker. On the used market, there still are many Bianchis actually made in Italy, but they're mostly going to be steel.

Buying new is fun because you have more time to try out different models, and get some advice from salespeople, though not all of what they will tell you is necessarily legit.
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Old 11-11-20, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
What are you thinking is more aggressive about the other bikes you listed compared to your Defy?

Do you know about what your saddle to bar drop was on the Defy? Since it sounds like you can see, smell and touch the other bikes in a shop, then you should be able to look at them and determine if new they have so many spacers under the stem that they are no more aggressive than your Defy.
Defy was endurance geometry these two are race, I donít have it to measure. Canít test ride in shop due to restrictions or bikes arenít in shop. Itís kinda of buy before you see, as they are selling their stock before they get it. Not ideal but, but itís the same with every bike shop around here at the moment.

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse View Post
Pinarello aggressively sells off their older models at the end of the year. This year might be harder than normal but it's worth paying attention to see what you can find.
Iíll look into it, only only supplier in the country though

Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Despite the celeste paint job, I doubt very many Bianchis have been actually built in Italy in recent years. A minor point. I naively assumed for several years that my BMC was built in Switzerland, because of all the Swiss flags on on the frame, until the day I saw the Made in Taiwan sticker. On the used market, there still are many Bianchis actually made in Italy, but they're mostly going to be steel.

Buying new is fun because you have more time to try out different models, and get some advice from salespeople, though not all of what they will tell you is necessarily legit.
I know the via nirone is made in Asia, not sure on the carbon bikes. But itís not a deal breaker for me.

also as stated above, not ideal to buy bikes right now. Limited stock and itís first come first serve. One shop I called said their entire stock was sold until summer 21.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by AidanS View Post
Defy was endurance geometry these two are race, I don’t have it to measure. Can’t test ride in shop due to restrictions or bikes aren’t in shop. It’s kinda of buy before you see, as they are selling their stock before they get it. Not ideal but, but it’s the same with every bike shop around here at the moment.
If you are going only by how the manufacturer describes and categorizes the bikes for sale, then you are making assumptions you should not be making. IMO. Race bikes to the manufacturer might mean they have lighter and better components, the frames themselves might be a lighter build. Some of the bikes you skip over by eliminating bikes listed as "race" bikes by the maker might have close to the same geometry as your Defy.

If you do go by the actual geometry from the charts, then don't forget that usually there is 30 to 40 mm of spacers above the stack height that the stem actually is on a new bike fresh out of the box.
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Old 11-11-20, 03:19 PM
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Wilier? The Cento 1 NDR might be about your pricepoint
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Old 11-11-20, 03:40 PM
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Bianchi is owned by a Swedish conglomerate.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grimaldi_Industri
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Old 11-12-20, 05:28 AM
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De Rosa

https://ciclicorsa.com/
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Old 11-12-20, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by AidanS View Post
Snipped. . .
Both race bikes, Iíve only ever owned endurance bikes so Iím wondering will a race bike be to aggressive for me in the long term. I donít plan on very long rides but I do live in a mountainous area.

Thanks

AidanS
This is the real question here. It is irrelevant on bike brand/model until you figure this out. In a simple way of describing endurance bikes, they have less reach and more stack than a race bike. Of course there are variations in that but it's basic. Typically you will find that endurance bikes will have longer head tubes, which translates to less saddle to bar drop. Iride01 already touched on this, you could be looking at stack and reach in the geometry sections. Compare this to what you had.

The second part is do you really need an endurance fit? Unfortunately no one can tell you this because it all depends on your likes and dislikes, your fitness level, your flexibility and other variables. Personally I love the endurance fit of my bike but there are plenty of people on this board who love their race bikes. How much did you like riding your Defy? If you loved it then I would say purchase an endurance bike and wait it out until you can get what you need. If you didn't love your Defy, try a race bike and you may find it is even better.

Good luck.
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Old 11-17-20, 12:52 AM
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I was also in love with Celeste and wanted an endurance bike. I am pleased with the Inifinito CV as it is a pleasure to ride.

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Old 11-17-20, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Joearch View Post
I was also in love with Celeste and wanted an endurance bike. I am pleased with the Inifinito CV as it is a pleasure to ride.

Great advice
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Old 11-17-20, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Bianchi is owned by a Swedish conglomerate.
TIL
Originally Posted by Greatestalltime View Post
De Rosa
Over budget
Originally Posted by blakcloud View Post
This is the real question here. It is irrelevant on bike brand/model until you figure this out. In a simple way of describing endurance bikes, they have less reach and more stack than a race bike. Of course there are variations in that but it's basic. Typically you will find that endurance bikes will have longer head tubes, which translates to less saddle to bar drop. Iride01 already touched on this, you could be looking at stack and reach in the geometry sections. Compare this to what you had.

The second part is do you really need an endurance fit? Unfortunately no one can tell you this because it all depends on your likes and dislikes, your fitness level, your flexibility and other variables. Personally I love the endurance fit of my bike but there are plenty of people on this board who love their race bikes. How much did you like riding your Defy? If you loved it then I would say purchase an endurance bike and wait it out until you can get what you need. If you didn't love your Defy, try a race bike and you may find it is even better.

Good luck.
Unfortunately I donít have the old measurements to compare, plus Iíve recently found out that my defy was two sizes to big for me. So I duno if that will make a difference when changing to a racer bike.
Originally Posted by Joearch View Post
I was also in love with Celeste and wanted an endurance bike. I am pleased with the Inifinito CV as it is a pleasure to ride.
Thatís a beauty 😍
Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
If you are going only by how the manufacturer describes and categorizes the bikes for sale, then you are making assumptions you should not be making. IMO. Race bikes to the manufacturer might mean they have lighter and better components, the frames themselves might be a lighter build. Some of the bikes you skip over by eliminating bikes listed as "race" bikes by the maker might have close to the same geometry as your Defy.

If you do go by the actual geometry from the charts, then don't forget that usually there is 30 to 40 mm of spacers above the stack height that the stem actually is on a new bike fresh out of the box.
Any advice on how to read those charts, what are the key numbers I should be looking at?
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Old 11-17-20, 06:50 AM
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Originally Posted by Joearch View Post
I was also in love with Celeste and wanted an endurance bike. I am pleased with the Inifinito CV as it is a pleasure to ride.

I also wanted a Celeste bike. I didn't want a black one.

I should mention mine is a 2020 model..... For 2021, the black lettering is replaced with silver and the various black accent striping is gone. This is the Via Nirone model but certain of their other models are the same way. This is all based on the pictures on their website. I'm glad I was able to get mine when I did! Eliminating the black doesn't make the bike look any better in my opinion.

I also don't think mine is a US-market bike. It came with no reflectors, and no warning stickers (do Bianchis usually come with warning stickers?). Regardless, I am super happy with it. Fabulous comfortable ride.

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Old 11-17-20, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by AidanS View Post
Any advice on how to read those charts, what are the key numbers I should be looking at?
Stack and the Effective top tube length which some call Top Tube Length Horizontal. On the Bianchi charts that is Y and B1.

Effective Top Tube Length is simply the length of an imaginary line extended from centerline of the top of the top tube to the extended centerline of the seat tube. Like the old seat post sizing of vintage bikes some mfrs might use slightly different start/end points.

Google and you can probably come up with the geometry for your old Defy of whatever it was and compare. Remember that those geometry charts don't usually include all the stuff that tells you where your contact points with the bike will be. So you have to build in your own sometimes. As you move to different sizes in the same model, things like crank length and stem length that Bianchi doesn't show you might change.

Don't forget that stems usually sit higher on a new bike than what the stack measure gives you. 30 mm (1-3/16") of spacers which I think is common for a new bike will put most handlebars at the same height as a stem that is slammed to the headset on your average bike advertised as Endurance. Which IMO is misleading, because Race bikes are endurance road bikes too. Race is just a narrower category that includes bikes with a lower stack for getting more aero and frames that might be lighter in general. Endurance is the broader category of what's left once you remove Race and some other breakdowns some other mfrs use like Fitness, But there is no more endurance to bikes marketed in the endurance category other than they have a less aero sitting position which on long rides is wasteful of your energy.
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Old 11-17-20, 11:31 AM
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I couldn't be happier with the 2020 Cento10NDR that I built over the summer. It's the best bike I've ever owned. More importantly, though, it had the exact geometry that I was looking for. If the HT and ST C/C dimensions weren't exactly within the range that I was seeking, it would have been a no go.
There aren't many aero options that have an endurance geometry out there. Everything from the seat tube forward mirrors the Cento10Pro, Wilier's aero offering prior to the Filante SLR that just came out.
The Cento1NDR would be closer to your price point in a 105 spec at 2400EUR, but would also be a stretch if your upper limit is 1800EUR.

Ultimately, geometry should inform your decision above all else.
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Old 11-17-20, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
Stack and the Effective top tube length which some call Top Tube Length Horizontal. On the Bianchi charts that is Y and B1.

Effective Top Tube Length is simply the length of an imaginary line extended from centerline of the top of the top tube to the extended centerline of the seat tube. Like the old seat post sizing of vintage bikes some mfrs might use slightly different start/end points.

Google and you can probably come up with the geometry for your old Defy of whatever it was and compare. Remember that those geometry charts don't usually include all the stuff that tells you where your contact points with the bike will be. So you have to build in your own sometimes. As you move to different sizes in the same model, things like crank length and stem length that Bianchi doesn't show you might change.

Don't forget that stems usually sit higher on a new bike than what the stack measure gives you. 30 mm (1-3/16") of spacers which I think is common for a new bike will put most handlebars at the same height as a stem that is slammed to the headset on your average bike advertised as Endurance. Which IMO is misleading, because Race bikes are endurance road bikes too. Race is just a narrower category that includes bikes with a lower stack for getting more aero and frames that might be lighter in general. Endurance is the broader category of what's left once you remove Race and some other breakdowns some other mfrs use like Fitness, But there is no more endurance to bikes marketed in the endurance category other than they have a less aero sitting position which on long rides is wasteful of your energy.
thanks so much for the info, I watched a few video and I think I get it now. Found a defy chart for my model but it only has a few measurements. Turns out my size M/L53 in giant has a 56cm top tube, this would have lead me to be stretched out more than I should have been? When I should have been on the smaller S/46 that had a 53cm top tube.
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Old 11-17-20, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dscohen View Post
I couldn't be happier with the 2020 Cento10NDR that I built over the summer. It's the best bike I've ever owned. More importantly, though, it had the exact geometry that I was looking for. If the HT and ST C/C dimensions weren't exactly within the range that I was seeking, it would have been a no go.
There aren't many aero options that have an endurance geometry out there. Everything from the seat tube forward mirrors the Cento10Pro, Wilier's aero offering prior to the Filante SLR that just came out.
The Cento1NDR would be closer to your price point in a 105 spec at 2400EUR, but would also be a stretch if your upper limit is 1800EUR.

Ultimately, geometry should inform your decision above all else.
yeah Iím pushing the budget as is to get the Bianchi I donít thing the other half would be to happy going to 2400
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Old 11-19-20, 08:21 AM
  #25  
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I think that Wiggle was offering the DeRosa frameset for a good price, about $1700. Big discount.
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