Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Where we are in 2020 and the cost of road bikes

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Where we are in 2020 and the cost of road bikes

Old 12-14-20, 09:14 AM
  #26  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
It is very much true that bike prices HAVE escalated significantly over the past 5-odd years - and that's not factoring in the current COVID-fuelled spike. You could get a very nice mid/upper end carbon bike with Ultegra for around $3000 at one point. How common is that these days?
You are incorrect.

In 2008, I bought my Specialized Tarmac, and it was "a very nice mid/upper end carbon bike with Ultegra for around $3000." In fact, it was exactly $3000. According to the BLS inflation calculator, that was the equivalent of $3549 in today's dollars. (Due to inflation, obviously. A dollar was worth more twelve years ago.)

Today, you can buy a new Tarmac with Ultegra for $3600, which is only a few bucks more (in 2020 dollars) than I paid for my Tarmac twelve years ago. Only the new bike comes with a whole bunch of improvements: Ultegra 11 speed (vs 10 speed on my bike), tubeless-ready wheels and tires, hydraulic disc brakes, internal cable routing, etc. Even if all of those things aren't important to you, they are technological advancements that cost money and are valuable to most riders. All of that, for only $51 more, in today's dollars, than I paid for my old bike.

For only $2800 right now, you can get this one, which is still superior to my old bike, given that today's 11 speed 105 groupset is superior to my old 10 speed Ultegra groupset...And this bike comes with several additional improvements, too. In inflation-adjusted dollars, it is significantly cheaper than my old bike.

If anything, it seems like bikes have gotten less expensive, if we assess them accurately. We're getting more for our money.

Last edited by Koyote; 12-14-20 at 11:31 AM.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 12-14-20, 09:22 AM
  #27  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,213

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
Originally Posted by Litespud
DaveSSS, what happened to your two Colnagos?
I sold both frames and wheelsets and all other parts I didn't need on ebay. I now have two Cinelli superstar disc frames. I bought new fulcrum racing 3 DB wheels, michelin 28mm tubeless tires, Campy rotors and Juin-Tech GT-f brakes, then transferred the rest of the parts from the Colnagos. Cost me about $1500 in total.

Last edited by DaveSSS; 12-14-20 at 09:26 AM.
DaveSSS is offline  
Old 12-14-20, 09:25 AM
  #28  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Loveland, CO
Posts: 7,213

Bikes: Cinelli superstar disc, two Yoeleo R12

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1090 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 443 Posts
The mistake made in the Caledonia comparison comes from the wheelsets. Quite often, when the component group is changed, so is the wheelset.
DaveSSS is offline  
Likes For DaveSSS:
Old 12-14-20, 12:54 PM
  #29  
Senior Member
 
blacknbluebikes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: NJ, USA
Posts: 1,276

Bikes: two blacks, a blue and a white.

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 442 Post(s)
Liked 839 Times in 407 Posts
See ya in 2022 for bike shopping with (hopefully) significantly different market conditions, like...
1. The parent/parents don't have to work from home, and gyms aren't a concern for contagion in 2022. biking ain't the 'attractive alternative' they were in 2020
2. The kids are back in school full time. less push to 'get them out of here anyway we can' like the summer of 2020
3. Summer kids sports will be back on the calendar, so the bike isn't needed to 'get the yaya's out' from June through August
4. Bike manufacturers will totally over produce in 2021, and there will be excess inventory at attractive prices.
blacknbluebikes is offline  
Old 12-14-20, 03:15 PM
  #30  
Asleep at the bars
 
sfrider's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: San Francisco, CA and Treasure Island, FL
Posts: 1,743
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 234 Post(s)
Liked 203 Times in 135 Posts
The $6500 Ultegra Di2 model comes with Reserve wheels. 21mm inner diameter, carbon wheels, that cost (MSRP at least) more than twice that of the DT E1800's. And although the E1800 are fine if a little heavy, I'm sure the Reserves are a step up. Between Di2 and the Reserve 35s... $1500 looks like a good deal to me. (Although to keep price down they source the version with DT 350 hubs... for a set of wheels-I-will-never-upgrade I'd want DT 240 hubs personally, and would probably fork over the $600 extra to get there.)
__________________
"This 7:48 cycling session burned 5933 calories. Speed up recovery by replacing them with a healthy snack." - Whoop


Last edited by sfrider; 12-14-20 at 03:25 PM.
sfrider is offline  
Old 12-14-20, 03:48 PM
  #31  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 5,879

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3906 Post(s)
Liked 7,181 Times in 2,905 Posts
Originally Posted by AcesHigh007
Am I missing something here?
Yeah, apples ≠ oranges.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 12-15-20, 07:18 AM
  #32  
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338

Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 295 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
When I bought my first road bike 10 years ago, the going rate for a 2nd-tier CF frame, 10sp 105 and place-keeper wheels was $2k. Currently, most manufacturers (I've only checked with Trek, Spec and Giant, but would imagine that most are similar) are selling their 2nd tier carbon (which is better than top tier from 10 years ago), 11sp hydro disc 105 for $2200-2500. That seems totally reasonable to me. Giant is one of the few manufacturers offering a rim brake 105 model, and it's currently going for $2050.
Seems to me with Spesh, atleast, that the $2000-2500 price point gets you their third tier carbon frame. And a lot of the tier 2 frames I am speccing out these days end up closer to $4k than $3k. I got a second tier carbon Ridley with a mix of Force/Ultegra for well under $2000. Even allowing for inflation, it seems that you get less for your money for the price - or rather, the gap to the top-end has widened a lot more. Some of it could be because of how much higher the top end has gotten - that leaves more room in the middle for additional tiers.
guadzilla is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 07:29 AM
  #33  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
Seems to me with Spesh, atleast, that the $2000-2500 price point gets you their third tier carbon frame. And a lot of the tier 2 frames I am speccing out these days end up closer to $4k than $3k. I got a second tier carbon Ridley with a mix of Force/Ultegra for well under $2000. Even allowing for inflation, it seems that you get less for your money for the price - or rather, the gap to the top-end has widened a lot more. Some of it could be because of how much higher the top end has gotten - that leaves more room in the middle for additional tiers.
Incorrect.
Koyote is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 07:48 AM
  #34  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,453 Times in 1,823 Posts
The issue here seems to be not whether bikes are expensive, but that the OP seems outraged by the fact that bike manufacturers charge more then the OP thinks they should.

So many ways to view this .... and all of them make the initial position seem .... whatever.

Maybe with fewer sales, bike makers need to charge more to maintain profitability. Maybe they have found that people Will pay more---even if they complain about it---so why not charge more? Maybe bike makers were undervaluing their products previously.

IN ANY CASE: A person either buys the bike he or she wants, or does not. Pretty freaking simple.

I do photography, and I want to be a really good lens but it costs about $2200---or about $1500 refurbished. It cost only about $1200 many years ago.

It never once occurred to me to complain because the same lens increased in price. For me, the calculus was, How much more money would I make if I got the really good lens, and how long would it take me to earn back the cost of the lens? Would I lose money if I kept using the perfectly serviceable but not as awesome lenses I have been using? How much did I Want it, and did I Need it?

It never occurred to me to complain about the price or the fact that the price rose. I never took it as a personal affront, or felt a need to attack the entire industry because to me, the lens was very expensive, while to some other shooters, the lens is a reasonable investment.

If you cannot justify the purchase it is beyond your means. Get a better job. get a part-time job in a fast-food restaurant. Cut lawns in your neighborhood. Stop expecting the world to work on your behalf. Work on your own behalf.

Or, like me with my lenses ... ride the excellent bike you already have and be glad you have it.

While we complain about the cost of bikes and bike parts .... how many people are complaining because they cannot afford the food they need or the medical care they need? Sort of makes complaining about the cost of luxury items seem sort of silly, and selfish, eh?
Maelochs is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 07:56 AM
  #35  
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338

Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 295 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
Incorrect.
You are so cute when you conflate your opinion with objective truth. I just want to give your ruffle your hair when you do that.
guadzilla is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 07:58 AM
  #36  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
Seems to me with Spesh, atleast, that the $2000-2500 price point gets you their third tier carbon frame. And a lot of the tier 2 frames I am speccing out these days end up closer to $4k than $3k. I got a second tier carbon Ridley with a mix of Force/Ultegra for well under $2000. Even allowing for inflation, it seems that you get less for your money for the price - or rather, the gap to the top-end has widened a lot more. Some of it could be because of how much higher the top end has gotten - that leaves more room in the middle for additional tiers.
Definitely agree that the top end has gotten higher. On that note, Spec *just* released their new uber fiber - I don't think that it's fair to hold that against their other CF bikes at this point. For that matter, it's probably most fair, when talking about value, to look at it from the other direction, not down from the top carbon offering, but rather looking at the entry carbon offerings (which are, again, considerably better that a few generations ago). Typically the frames for a manufacturer's 105 and and more affordable Ultegra offerings are just one step below their their very best, but not always.

What kinds of builds are you pricing up? I have a fair idea of your tastes - you might see more price point deviation with smaller/boutique manufacturers, so for the purposes of comparison and with the lens of value, it's probably best to stick to the big players; whether you look at it from the top down or the entry level and up, players like Cervelo, Factor, Wilier, or whomever, is going to skew things, typically towards the more expensive. So no, I don't think that it's fair to categorize a Caledonia as entry-level, even though there's the Cal5 above it.

I would love to see the original MSRP of that Ridley. When I'm actively in the market, I'm a world-class hand-wringer and smaller brands appeal to me - I wouldn't think that pricing like that would escape my attention.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:03 AM
  #37  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
The issue here seems to be not whether bikes are expensive, but that the OP seems outraged by the fact that bike manufacturers charge more then the OP thinks they should.

So many ways to view this .... and all of them make the initial position seem .... whatever.
And some other facts that are being ignored: inflation, while low lately, is ever-present -- and so, even though nominal prices have risen a bit, real (inflation-adjusted) prices haven't risen as much, if at all. Also, the equipment improves over time, and hence today's $3000 bike may be significantly more advanced (and costlier to produce) than the bike of 10 years ago.

Here's my analogy: In 1972, my father bought a brand-new economy car for $3000; today, a new economy car might cost $20,000. Sure, we could complain that new cars have gotten sooo much more expensive; the reality is that all prices, and incomes, have risen in the past 48 years, and the economy cars of today are vastly superior to those of 1972. And if you don't believe me, go find a '72 Gremlin and take it for a spin. Ugh.
Koyote is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:03 AM
  #38  
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by Maelochs
I do photography, and I want to be a really good lens but it costs about $2200---or about $1500 refurbished. It cost only about $1200 many years ago.
Off topic, but what lens/lenses are you talking about? And are you talking about a pricing change for the *same lens* or the same lens class? I mean, yeah, 70-200 or 16-35, whether f/2.8 or f/4, have gotten more expensive, but they've also gotten objectively better.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:05 AM
  #39  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
You are so cute when you conflate your opinion with objective truth. I just want to give your ruffle your hair when you do that.
You should respond to post #26.
Koyote is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:09 AM
  #40  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,433
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 412 Times in 230 Posts
Low end carbon is pretty cheap now. You can buy a carbon frame on EBay for like $500.00. I have a carbon track frame I bought on EBay. Other than being heavy, it rode fine.
colnago62 is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:12 AM
  #41  
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 2,064

Bikes: SL8 Pro, TCR beater

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 957 Post(s)
Liked 562 Times in 423 Posts
Originally Posted by HTupolev
You're cheating your own comparison by incorporating the discount. The market is in a much different state right now than it was when you bought the 2014 bike. And $4000 in 2014 is about $4500 in today's USD.

The $4500 Caledona is not "the base spec." The lowest spec is the $2900 105-equipped version.
There's also a $3500 variant spec'd with mechanical Ultegra. Considering that your 2014 bicycle was not spec'd with Di2, it's arguable that the closest comparison in the Caledonia's lineup is actually the $3500 mechanical Ultegra variant. Compared with your 2014 S3, this variant does lack a carbon aero seatpost and has less-fancy wheels with a shallower section, but it's also pitched as an allroad bike and is $1000 cheaper when considered in 2020 USD.
The $4500 variant also lacks these things compared with your S3, but that's because they're specifically hitting you with a big penalty for Di2, which your S3 does not have.

I'm confused as to why you think that the $6500 Caledonia 5 variant with e-shifting and an integrated cockpit is at the same spot in the food chain as your S3, which came with neither of these things.
Exactly what I was thinking. Can't compare oranges with apples.

If I compare my former 2016 and 2018 with my current 2021 TCR, prices did not increase that much. Rebates, however, have most likely all disappeared in 2020 due to the shortage.
eduskator is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:25 AM
  #42  
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338

Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 295 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Definitely agree that the top end has gotten higher. On that note, Spec *just* released their new uber fiber - I don't think that it's fair to hold that against their other CF bikes at this point. For that matter, it's probably most fair, when talking about value, to look at it from the other direction, not down from the top carbon offering, but rather looking at the entry carbon offerings (which are, again, considerably better that a few generations ago). Typically the frames for a manufacturer's 105 and and more affordable Ultegra offerings are just one step below their their very best, but not always.

What kinds of builds are you pricing up? I have a fair idea of your tastes - you might see more price point deviation with smaller/boutique manufacturers, so for the purposes of comparison and with the lens of value, it's probably best to stick to the big players; whether you look at it from the top down or the entry level and up, players like Cervelo, Factor, Wilier, or whomever, is going to skew things, typically towards the more expensive. So no, I don't think that it's fair to categorize a Caledonia as entry-level, even though there's the Cal5 above it.

I would love to see the original MSRP of that Ridley. When I'm actively in the market, I'm a world-class hand-wringer and smaller brands appeal to me - I wouldn't think that pricing like that would escape my attention.
It's been 10 years since I got that Ridley Damocles, but i just checked it out - the MRP of the bike was $3600, CC had it on sale for $2400 and I think i got them to knock a little more off for me. Mea culpa, it wasnt $1500 (that was a different Ridley - my X-Fire with all Rival, which had an MRP of $3000 and was on closeout for 50% off). It was around 7.5kg, a mix of Force/Rival and at the time, it was frame that Pro Continental teams were using to race in the Belgium circuit. Slight reminiscing mod - that was such a lively bike and an absolute joy to drope the hamer. In , I should have just kept it.

Getting back to prices: over the last year, I have been looking at Di2 builds mostly, and there definitely was a big sticker shock for me, after 5+ years of not considering bikes. I was used to seeing top-end specs for $6k and seeing pretty much every brand's top range for $10k+ was an eye-opener.

At present, I am looking to get a nice race bike build for my wife and it seems that I need to spend a lot more to get something that is one notch below the top. And you are correct - because i have been looking more at the smaller brands - eg, a 5-series Cervelo with Ultegra - that could be skewing my perspective. $3k gets me the most-entry level spec in a Caledonia or Aspero. But even a $3k Spesh Tarmac is atleast 2 levels lower in carbon layup than their top end model and so feels like a big step down.

Now that I think about it, i think it is not so much the availability of what it at the $3-3.5k price point that is the issue, but how far it is from the top. Earlier, $3-3.5k would get you a bike that was a small rung or two down from the top frame (eg, I remember the Madone 9 top-spec being a then-eye-watering $6k or something). These days, that bike is significantly removed from the top-end build and in fact closer to entry-level. Eg, off memory, a $3,5k Emonda almost 8kg - which is pretty bad for a "lightweight climbing bike". So that probably affects how it is perceived.

Probably not fair to let the existence of higher-end models skew my perspective though - so from that point of view, you are correct. But perception is what perception is - and these days, my internal pricing has re-calibrated to think of $3k bikes as entry-level.
guadzilla is offline  
Likes For guadzilla:
Old 12-15-20, 08:28 AM
  #43  
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338

Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 295 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
You should respond to post #26.
You are EVEN cuter when you are so eager to get into a pissing contest to try to tell me that my opinion is wrong. I am happy to have a reasonable, non-pointlessly-antagonistic discussion on thi, but when it comes to the typical BF e-wang measuring contest and getting the last word in? I. Dont. Care. I outgrew that phase many, many years ago.

You disagree? Bully for you. Here's a cookie, now go argue with someone else, or claim victory, or lather yourself in GraphenLube and pleasure yourself, or whatever it is that gets you your jollies over winning internet arguments.
guadzilla is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:37 AM
  #44  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,391 Times in 4,148 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
Seems to me with Spesh, atleast, that the $2000-2500 price point gets you their third tier carbon frame. And a lot of the tier 2 frames I am speccing out these days end up closer to $4k than $3k. I got a second tier carbon Ridley with a mix of Force/Ultegra for well under $2000. Even allowing for inflation, it seems that you get less for your money for the price - or rather, the gap to the top-end has widened a lot more. Some of it could be because of how much higher the top end has gotten - that leaves more room in the middle for additional tiers.
Ill insert my long held bias that Specialized isnt exactly well known for its great value relative to cost. They are consistently on the high side of average cost for equal component tech, or they are at the average cost but with lesser component tech.

And yes I can see how your idea that the top end expanding leaves more room for additional tiers.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:39 AM
  #45  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
You are EVEN cuter when you are so eager to get into a pissing contest to try to tell me that my opinion is wrong. I am happy to have a reasonable, non-pointlessly-antagonistic discussion on thi, but when it comes to the typical BF e-wang measuring contest and getting the last word in? I. Dont. Care. I outgrew that phase many, many years ago.

You disagree? Bully for you. Here's a cookie, now go argue with someone else, or claim victory, or lather yourself in GraphenLube and pleasure yourself, or whatever it is that gets you your jollies over winning internet arguments.
Post #26 actually contains a bunch of facts. You can double-check them if you like.
Koyote is offline  
Likes For Koyote:
Old 12-15-20, 08:45 AM
  #46  
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times in 349 Posts
From a cursory search on the internet the difference between the two wheelsets appears to be almost $1000.00 if purchased separately. So the $1500 price tag includes an upgrade to Di2 and about $1k upgraded wheelset.
jadocs is offline  
Likes For jadocs:
Old 12-15-20, 08:49 AM
  #47  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,391 Times in 4,148 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
Now that I think about it, i think it is not so much the availability of what it at the $3-3.5k price point that is the issue, but how far it is from the top. Earlier, $3-3.5k would get you a bike that was a small rung or two down from the top frame (eg, I remember the Madone 9 top-spec being a then-eye-watering $6k or something). These days, that bike is significantly removed from the top-end build and in fact closer to entry-level. Eg, off memory, a $3,5k Emonda almost 8kg - which is pretty bad for a "lightweight climbing bike". So that probably affects how it is perceived.

Probably not fair to let the existence of higher-end models skew my perspective though - so from that point of view, you are correct. But perception is what perception is - and these days, my internal pricing has re-calibrated to think of $3k bikes as entry-level.
Good to hear you have figured out why your perceptions is flawed.
$3000 is not entry level for road bikes. Its not even close to entry level. $3000 gets you a bike that effectively performs probably 97% of a bike 3x more expensive.

There could be 15 levels of carbon frames, but if the ride feel between the top level and the 12th level is imperceptible to most and the effective performance is 97% of the top level, then no it isnt entry level, even though its close to the bottom. Thats an exaggerated example, but its basically what this discussion has turned into since its one of perception.

$3000 is entry level...come on now. Step back and recognize the absurdity in that.
mstateglfr is offline  
Likes For mstateglfr:
Old 12-15-20, 08:50 AM
  #48  
Senior Member
 
Maelochs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 15,453

Bikes: 2015 Workswell 066, 2017 Workswell 093, 2014 Dawes Sheila, 1983 Cannondale 500, 1984 Raleigh Olympian, 2007 Cannondale Rize 4, 2017 Fuji Sportif 1 LE

Mentioned: 144 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7628 Post(s)
Liked 3,453 Times in 1,823 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Off topic, but what lens/lenses are you talking about? And are you talking about a pricing change for the *same lens* or the same lens class? I mean, yeah, 70-200 or 16-35, whether f/2.8 or f/4, have gotten more expensive, but they've also gotten objectively better.
I really want to thank Koyote and Guadzilla for providing entertainment ... but I will instead be mature and go off-topic.

I have the Cannon 70-200 ... I got a cheap version (no IS, because I pan with it a lot and also because even at 200 mm the shake (even with my palsy) isn't bad. I cannot hand-hold my 150-600 any more .... can't keep the hands still.)) and I know the lens has been upgraded since, but it was worth it back then because I was making better money.

Now I want (but won't get) the L-Series 24-70-2.8---truly amazing lens, easily on par with the 70-200. It might have been updated since I first priced in maybe eight years ago ... but that's not my point The point is ... good stuff is not cheap. if you want the Really good stuff, open your wallet wide. if you cannot afford it .... nobody's business but your own.

I went through some real career crap the year before the CCP virus hit---so I started trying some free-lance stuff, and as I started to get rolling the virus hit and killed everything I had built. But that's life. I know a guy who Caught the virus and he can't ride---for a few reasons---but he had long-lasting lung-capacity reduction. I just lost some income. I can get a night job at 7-11 ... he can't buy the use of his lungs.

But whatever .... I am moving into video now, using DSLRs, and for that job I don't need the 24-70 .... and the wages are so low I cannot afford it. For my freelance stuff it would be handy .... but not enough to justify the cost just yet. And with my wife and I around retirement age, pennies suddenly count. Oh, for the wild days of the 2000's ...... I bought bikes and cameras and lenses and gear like it didn't matter.

But yeah ... that 24-70 would be a joy to own (I borrowed a friend's .... I am not just dreaming) but it wouldn't pay for itself and I don't want to pay for it,. Not Canon's fault.
Maelochs is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 08:50 AM
  #49  
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,338

Bikes: R5, Allez Sprint, Shiv

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 627 Times in 295 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote
Post #26 actually contains a bunch of facts. You can double-check them if you like.
Probably does - and were I so inclined, I could have come up with a counter, explaining my point of view. But I dont really care to get into that discussion with you.
guadzilla is offline  
Old 12-15-20, 09:03 AM
  #50  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7,767
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6882 Post(s)
Liked 10,873 Times in 4,637 Posts
Originally Posted by guadzilla
Probably not fair to let the existence of higher-end models skew my perspective though - so from that point of view, you are correct. But perception is what perception is - and these days, my internal pricing has re-calibrated to think of $3k bikes as entry-level.
I think this is where our disagreement came from. I was writing about facts rather than perceptions.
Koyote is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.