Where we are in 2020 and the cost of road bikes
12-16-20, 02:45 PM
#76
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I once wrote here on BF very similar comment as to how market economy operates, what determines the selling price of anything and all that. But you said it even better, more cogently, if I recall my post from memory. What I also try to argue in such cases is to try and 'think oneself into the other side shoes'. Typically consumers tend to eye themselves as playthings or even hostages to producers but the same view of oneself can be taken by producers as well.
Only I wouldn't be so harsh on OP, like to make out of his post that he is or may be new to America and capitalism, when Americans themselves, except for very rare minority, don't know what capitalism is (and for that mater, the rest of the Western world with them). Else why would the West be in the hole it is in and why it would be sliding into that hole for the last century, give or take some decades.
Only I wouldn't be so harsh on OP, like to make out of his post that he is or may be new to America and capitalism, when Americans themselves, except for very rare minority, don't know what capitalism is (and for that mater, the rest of the Western world with them). Else why would the West be in the hole it is in and why it would be sliding into that hole for the last century, give or take some decades.
On the other hand, the market for new bikes is rather competitive, on most levels: many manufacturers, many retail (and e-tail) outlets, lots of widely-available info to allow price comparisons, etc. In such a market, I would expect prices to allow reasonable, but not excessive profits; if any seller were charging much more than that, customers would just go elsewhere. (Though someone with actual industry experience may point out some market imperfections that I am missing.)
Of course, there is a whole lot more to it than just this...It's why there's a whole college major called Economics.
12-16-20, 04:42 PM
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And some other facts that are being ignored: inflation, while low lately, is ever-present -- and so, even though nominal prices have risen a bit, real (inflation-adjusted) prices haven't risen as much, if at all. Also, the equipment improves over time, and hence today's $3000 bike may be significantly more advanced (and costlier to produce) than the bike of 10 years ago.
Here's my analogy: In 1972, my father bought a brand-new economy car for $3000; today, a new economy car might cost $20,000. Sure, we could complain that new cars have gotten sooo much more expensive; the reality is that all prices, and incomes, have risen in the past 48 years, and the economy cars of today are vastly superior to those of 1972. And if you don't believe me, go find a '72 Gremlin and take it for a spin. Ugh.
Here's my analogy: In 1972, my father bought a brand-new economy car for $3000; today, a new economy car might cost $20,000. Sure, we could complain that new cars have gotten sooo much more expensive; the reality is that all prices, and incomes, have risen in the past 48 years, and the economy cars of today are vastly superior to those of 1972. And if you don't believe me, go find a '72 Gremlin and take it for a spin. Ugh.
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Brian | 2023 Trek Domane SLR 7 eTap AXS | 2016 Trek Emonda ALR 6 | 2022 Trek FX Sport 5
Brian | 2023 Trek Domane SLR 7 eTap AXS | 2016 Trek Emonda ALR 6 | 2022 Trek FX Sport 5
Originally Posted by AEO
you should learn to embrace change, and mock it's failings every step of the way.
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12-17-20, 01:03 PM
#78
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Those that can afford a $5k+ bike are mostly saving MORE money during the pandemic. High income individuals are significantly more likely to be able to work remotely, so no lost income. Additionally, they're not eating out, commuting, travelling or doing other social events, so they're saving FAR more money than they ordinarily would.
As a result, they have more money than ever to spend on the things they can do, like cycling.
Luxury automakers are reporting robust sales, the stock market is through the roof. But if you were working a lower wage job in the service industry, you're probably struggling to make rent.
12-17-20, 04:23 PM
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Ok, I'm going to take the bait. Both your statements are true and completely consistent.
Those that can afford a $5k+ bike are mostly saving MORE money during the pandemic. High income individuals are significantly more likely to be able to work remotely, so no lost income. Additionally, they're not eating out, commuting, travelling or doing other social events, so they're saving FAR more money than they ordinarily would.
As a result, they have more money than ever to spend on the things they can do, like cycling.
Luxury automakers are reporting robust sales, the stock market is through the roof. But if you were working a lower wage job in the service industry, you're probably struggling to make rent.
Those that can afford a $5k+ bike are mostly saving MORE money during the pandemic. High income individuals are significantly more likely to be able to work remotely, so no lost income. Additionally, they're not eating out, commuting, travelling or doing other social events, so they're saving FAR more money than they ordinarily would.
As a result, they have more money than ever to spend on the things they can do, like cycling.
Luxury automakers are reporting robust sales, the stock market is through the roof. But if you were working a lower wage job in the service industry, you're probably struggling to make rent.
Lower-wage workers tend to be in the jobs that have disappeared during the pandemic: servers in restaurants, retail clerks, other people who perform personal services such as housecleaning and child care, etc. Those are the people who need economic relief – – not the professional workers who are still working and facing far lower expenses as you note.
12-17-20, 04:48 PM
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Small business owners are getting their butts kicked too .... I have three friends, one owns a daycare, one a restaurant, the third a lumber business. Between enforced shutdowns and fears, all three have had to lay off staff or severely curtal hours, or close temporarily .... the lumber guy has to face winter in a seasonal business 9he's up north and people for some r4ason build less in the snow.) All applied for PPP checks, but those funds all went to Texas megachurches and presidential donors ..... When these three friends got hit, quite a few hourly employees did too .... but the hourly employees can take other jobs (well, they can try.) If you own a restaurant or a lumber yard, you have to pay for it no matter if it is open or closed. if people finally get smart and start acting like there is a communicable disease at large, so we can stop it .... then my friends have debts, and they have to hope they can find staff to replace the people who got laid off ..... or file bankruptcy. Plus .... small business owners often have to far into leverage to get off the ground, and often put everything into the business, hoping it will pay off a nd provide retirement eventually .... so now that is shot.
However, none of them ride bikes, so ..... whatever.
However, none of them ride bikes, so ..... whatever.
12-17-20, 07:46 PM
#81
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In 2007 I bought a Roubaix Expert. Have absolutely loved it! 13 years later I bought a 2020 Roubaix Expert (the one with the 38mm CF Roval rims). According to my friends at the IBS, Specialized underpriced it (I like them, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt). Assuming it lasts 13 years the depreciation will be easy to handle. Two weekends ago I passed 5,000 miles for the year on it.
Buy the best bike you can afford.
Ride it.
Buy the best bike you can afford.
Ride it.
12-18-20, 06:56 PM
#82
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Just looking at a demand curve is probably insufficient to understand pricing. If you look at the LVMH business model, the bag is priced at $10,000 because that's what the customer expects. Their customer doesn't want Jill Sixpack going around with the same bag. I don't know that high end bikes fit in that category, but there may well be an attempt to make them aspirational.
OP I think wants bikes to be commodity priced, and marketers spend zip on branding.
scott s.
.
OP I think wants bikes to be commodity priced, and marketers spend zip on branding.
scott s.
.
Last edited by scott967; 12-18-20 at 07:00 PM.
12-18-20, 07:22 PM
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Just looking at a demand curve is probably insufficient to understand pricing. If you look at the LVMH business model, the bag is priced at $10,000 because that's what the customer expects. Their customer doesn't want Jill Sixpack going around with the same bag. I don't know that high end bikes fit in that category, but there may well be an attempt to make them aspirational.
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12-18-20, 07:36 PM
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In smaller communities they might .... but the top end of the spectrum definitely falls into "luxury" pricing, where the higher price guarantees exclusivity and is a badge of honor.
12-18-20, 08:05 PM
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No, I don't think so. With Veblen goods, demand moves with the price, rising and falling together. If a tricked out flagship road bike fell from $11k to $6k, the demand wouldn't slacken - there'd be a feeding frenzy.
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12-18-20, 09:43 PM
#86
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It's not something I've looked into very much, but I am not sure that there has ever been a documented case of a true Veblen good -- it's more of a theoretical curiosity, from what I recall. But I could be wrong about that - like I wrote, I've not kept up with that literature.
12-18-20, 10:08 PM
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I would say that most people in the US have at least some sense of what capitalism is, but a very unsophisticated view of how it actually operates, of the nuances. For example, in relatively uncompetitive markets (few sellers, highly differentiated or even unique products), sellers may be able to charge prices which yield extraordinarily large profits; for example, patented drugs with no substitutes (e.g., Prozac and Viagra when each was new to the market) are typically marked up dramatically over production cost, and are hence hugely profitable to manufacturers and pharmacies.
I meant it more deeply, more generally. On this concrete level you talk about, every one of us can only make very little difference (by buying or not buying), regardless of what we know or don't know.
On the other hand, the market for new bikes is rather competitive, on most levels: many manufacturers, many retail (and e-tail) outlets, lots of widely-available info to allow price comparisons, etc. In such a market, I would expect prices to allow reasonable, but not excessive profits; if any seller were charging much more than that, customers would just go elsewhere. (Though someone with actual industry experience may point out some market imperfections that I am missing.)
Of course, there is a whole lot more to it than just this...It's why there's a whole college major called Economics.
I meant it more deeply, more generally. On this concrete level you talk about, every one of us can only make very little difference (by buying or not buying), regardless of what we know or don't know.
On the other hand, the market for new bikes is rather competitive, on most levels: many manufacturers, many retail (and e-tail) outlets, lots of widely-available info to allow price comparisons, etc. In such a market, I would expect prices to allow reasonable, but not excessive profits; if any seller were charging much more than that, customers would just go elsewhere. (Though someone with actual industry experience may point out some market imperfections that I am missing.)
Of course, there is a whole lot more to it than just this...It's why there's a whole college major called Economics.
Side note on the computer. I once did some work for a college teacher and as an aside to my pay, I was offered to take away a computer... it was around 1987 or thereabouts, the computer was Macintosh SE that came in its own custom padded bag with a pocket for keyboard and mouse and on top of that, needle printer was thrown in. I was told that the setup when new some few years back cost almost 7 000 $ CAD, now it was past its usefulness but I still had lots of fun with it, was my first computer. The thing was, in 1987 new computer on the market was way better than the one given to me and cost just a fraction of that amount.
On your closing note, I believe everybody owes it to himself to have at least a basic grasp of economics without having any specialized schooling (ditto about capitalism vs socialism). Today the situation is that I am awed by what most people do in their chosen professional life but when it comes to their ideas how a society should govern itself, they are still deeply rooted in our primitive collectivist past and inspire complete opposite emotion.
Last edited by vane171; 12-19-20 at 03:13 PM.
12-19-20, 04:12 AM
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I purchased a Cervelo S3 in 2014 and had a very pleasant experience. The retail price was $4k, I received a good discount and I felt good about my purchase. Now I am looking for something between road/gravel bike and am astonished at the prices for what companies are selling. To continue with Cervelo, their Caledona base with Di2 is $4500. For $4500, the base model comes with alloy stem and bars, doesn't have integrated cockpit, crap wheels, and has an alloy seatpost. It is the $6500 Caledona 5 Di2 that has these features and even still, the wheels/hubs leave a lot to be desired.
So $6500 to feel like I am purchasing a bike in the food chain where I was in 2014?
Total out of the door in 2014 was $3600. The Caledona 5 Di2 would be $7100. I'm seeing this across the board. Trek selling $6500 road bikes that have alloy bars/stems, low grade saddles and questionable wheelsets.
This seems the equivalent of walking onto a BMW lot and seeing a base 3 Series is suddenly $75000. Am I missing something here?
So $6500 to feel like I am purchasing a bike in the food chain where I was in 2014?
Total out of the door in 2014 was $3600. The Caledona 5 Di2 would be $7100. I'm seeing this across the board. Trek selling $6500 road bikes that have alloy bars/stems, low grade saddles and questionable wheelsets.
This seems the equivalent of walking onto a BMW lot and seeing a base 3 Series is suddenly $75000. Am I missing something here?
12-19-20, 04:16 AM
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In the middle 2000s, you could get a decent carbon bike with Ultegra group and mid level alloy wheels (caliper of course) for $2000. Today it is twice that price, maybe more. It is also weird that purchase of a frameset not built out is sometimes only 1000 less than a fully build bike.
12-19-20, 07:24 AM
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In the middle 2000s, you could get a decent carbon bike with Ultegra group and mid level alloy wheels (caliper of course) for $2000. Today it is twice that price, maybe more. It is also weird that purchase of a frameset not built out is sometimes only 1000 less than a fully build bike.
It's the same reason why Walmart is cheaper on everything than your local mom and pop grocery store.
12-19-20, 07:27 AM
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Disk brakes and electronic shifting drives the price up a lot. Go with Sram 12 speed and etap and Red, again very expensive, almost like Super Record. The integrated stem and bars are also very expensive, vs quality aluminum in the same with out the hidden cables. High end carbon wheels... also very expensive. It amazes me that some people are ok with dropping 10 to 15 grand on a top shelf bike.
High end anything is high-end.
Frankly, a high-end 10-15k bicycle really pales in comparison to a $150,000 watch, in my opinion. At least there's some utility.
12-19-20, 08:13 AM
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Disk brakes and electronic shifting drives the price up a lot. Go with Sram 12 speed and etap and Red, again very expensive, almost like Super Record. The integrated stem and bars are also very expensive, vs quality aluminum in the same with out the hidden cables. High end carbon wheels... also very expensive. It amazes me that some people are ok with dropping 10 to 15 grand on a top shelf bike.
I dropped $7500 on my last bike, and got additional customization and functionality for the money. But I would never blow money on a Rolex or other fancy watch -- why bother, when it won't keep time as well as my Citizen Eco-Drive? I've owned it for eight years, and have never had to wind it, replace a battery, or even re-set the time or date (it has atomic sync and perpetual calendar).
12-19-20, 08:34 AM
#93
Advocatus Diaboli
Example
Emonda SL frameset $1700
Emonda SL5 (105) $2700
Emonda SL6 (Ultegra) $3300
$600 diff
You get.. an upgrade to Ultegra (on Merlin, cost diff between 105 and Ultegra groupset is $185)
Wheelset upgrade (the upgraded wheelset costs $370 retail). No idea if they even sell the lower tier wheelset (Affinity disc), but let's put $100 as value difference.
Upgraded handlebar ($50 value difference)
Upgraded alloy stem (supposedly another $50 value upgrade)
Overall I come up with $385 difference in parts. If buying power enabled better better pricing, then Trek should be able to price these two models eg. only $250 apart in price. Pretty much you can almost always find it would be better to buy a lower specced bike, remove and sell the stuff on it, and buy and install the same 'upgrades' yourself.
12-19-20, 08:54 AM
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Except that reason doesn't hold as you progress upward in price on the various models.
Example
Emonda SL frameset $1700
Emonda SL5 (105) $2700
Emonda SL6 (Ultegra) $3300
$600 diff
You get.. an upgrade to Ultegra (on Merlin, cost diff between 105 and Ultegra groupset is $185)
Wheelset upgrade (the upgraded wheelset costs $370 retail). No idea if they even sell the lower tier wheelset (Affinity disc), but let's put $100 as value difference.
Upgraded handlebar ($50 value difference)
Upgraded alloy stem (supposedly another $50 value upgrade)
Overall I come up with $385 difference in parts. If buying power enabled better better pricing, then Trek should be able to price these two models eg. only $250 apart in price. Pretty much you can almost always find it would be better to buy a lower specced bike, remove and sell the stuff on it, and buy and install the same 'upgrades' yourself.
Example
Emonda SL frameset $1700
Emonda SL5 (105) $2700
Emonda SL6 (Ultegra) $3300
$600 diff
You get.. an upgrade to Ultegra (on Merlin, cost diff between 105 and Ultegra groupset is $185)
Wheelset upgrade (the upgraded wheelset costs $370 retail). No idea if they even sell the lower tier wheelset (Affinity disc), but let's put $100 as value difference.
Upgraded handlebar ($50 value difference)
Upgraded alloy stem (supposedly another $50 value upgrade)
Overall I come up with $385 difference in parts. If buying power enabled better better pricing, then Trek should be able to price these two models eg. only $250 apart in price. Pretty much you can almost always find it would be better to buy a lower specced bike, remove and sell the stuff on it, and buy and install the same 'upgrades' yourself.
12-19-20, 08:54 AM
#95
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Watches are a perfect example of Conspicuous Consumption products.
I carry a phone, like every other person over five years of age on the entire planet (even in Third-World countries, phones are pretty popular, i learned.) So ... I have a perfectly accurate timepiece in my pocket almost all the time (sadly .... I leave it home whenever I can.)
Wristwatches are Wholly superfluous. And when I last had one, it was a $3 Timex from a convenience store and it kept perfect time for a couple years per battery.
Expensive watches are bought and worn exclusively to show that people can afford, and are "in the know" about, whichever high-end watch is considered desirable this season, as opposed to those people who buy (laugh, cough) Rolexes or whatever.
The value is entirely in the ability to show it off.
I suspect a lot of really expensive bikes are bought to ride to the café and parked by the outdoor table. Or, are bought by the hyper-competitive "modern executive" type who eityher spends a lot of time in the gym, or on the golf course, or on a bike, or whatever, to inflate his/her ego and have strong competitive talking points in the expensive wine/ single-barrel single-malt scotch bragging sessions.
I figure the real riders get slightly less bling because they are going to race and know the bike will get torn up, and have a few sets of wheels and a favorite saddle already .... and want their bikes to actually score race results, not just be the first in every stop-sign sprint on the Wednesday-night group ride.
But as for bikes in general----every bike outside of a big-box store---and some within---are sold as non-essential, elective-spending products. The markup is based not on the bike's monetary value---production, shipping, promotion costs---but on the sales' region's income profile.
Yes, it can be a competitive market, but no bike shop is going to price a bike lower than cost plus profit plus markup. There is always going to be a margin---on every LBS bike---added just because they shop knows you Want a bike. How big that added markup will be depends on local competition, local economy ... even what street the shop is on.
I used to live near three shops which were all on a major semi-upscale shopping road ... a stretch of road where semi-upscale people would stroll down the double-wide, tree-shaded sidewalks from store to store. The better place to buy a bike was a few miles away in a really ratty part of a much richer town. That shop was small, dark, unfinished inside ... and had the mechanics who race and all that. Even though that shop was two miles one way from one of the most upscale shopping districts in half the state, and three miles from another almost as expensive and desirable ... this shop had the real stuff, because no one wanted to go there, or even knew it was there.
Are bikes "over-priced." Yes, they carry a small or large "luxury tax." They are counted as discretionary-income purchases and are not priced with a utilitarian, minimum profit price scheme, but carry an added markup for their desirability. (you can go to Lowe's and get a utilitarian faucet for $18, or get Moen's for $280 .... both just faucets.)
Is the mark-up "fair"? Personal decision. Don't buy what you think is over-priced.
If you all hadn't paid $2000 in 2007, you wouldn't be looking at $4500 price tags today. Blame yourselves.
I carry a phone, like every other person over five years of age on the entire planet (even in Third-World countries, phones are pretty popular, i learned.) So ... I have a perfectly accurate timepiece in my pocket almost all the time (sadly .... I leave it home whenever I can.)
Wristwatches are Wholly superfluous. And when I last had one, it was a $3 Timex from a convenience store and it kept perfect time for a couple years per battery.
Expensive watches are bought and worn exclusively to show that people can afford, and are "in the know" about, whichever high-end watch is considered desirable this season, as opposed to those people who buy (laugh, cough) Rolexes or whatever.
The value is entirely in the ability to show it off.
I suspect a lot of really expensive bikes are bought to ride to the café and parked by the outdoor table. Or, are bought by the hyper-competitive "modern executive" type who eityher spends a lot of time in the gym, or on the golf course, or on a bike, or whatever, to inflate his/her ego and have strong competitive talking points in the expensive wine/ single-barrel single-malt scotch bragging sessions.
I figure the real riders get slightly less bling because they are going to race and know the bike will get torn up, and have a few sets of wheels and a favorite saddle already .... and want their bikes to actually score race results, not just be the first in every stop-sign sprint on the Wednesday-night group ride.
But as for bikes in general----every bike outside of a big-box store---and some within---are sold as non-essential, elective-spending products. The markup is based not on the bike's monetary value---production, shipping, promotion costs---but on the sales' region's income profile.
Yes, it can be a competitive market, but no bike shop is going to price a bike lower than cost plus profit plus markup. There is always going to be a margin---on every LBS bike---added just because they shop knows you Want a bike. How big that added markup will be depends on local competition, local economy ... even what street the shop is on.
I used to live near three shops which were all on a major semi-upscale shopping road ... a stretch of road where semi-upscale people would stroll down the double-wide, tree-shaded sidewalks from store to store. The better place to buy a bike was a few miles away in a really ratty part of a much richer town. That shop was small, dark, unfinished inside ... and had the mechanics who race and all that. Even though that shop was two miles one way from one of the most upscale shopping districts in half the state, and three miles from another almost as expensive and desirable ... this shop had the real stuff, because no one wanted to go there, or even knew it was there.
Are bikes "over-priced." Yes, they carry a small or large "luxury tax." They are counted as discretionary-income purchases and are not priced with a utilitarian, minimum profit price scheme, but carry an added markup for their desirability. (you can go to Lowe's and get a utilitarian faucet for $18, or get Moen's for $280 .... both just faucets.)
Is the mark-up "fair"? Personal decision. Don't buy what you think is over-priced.
If you all hadn't paid $2000 in 2007, you wouldn't be looking at $4500 price tags today. Blame yourselves.
Last edited by Maelochs; 12-19-20 at 08:58 AM.
12-19-20, 09:05 AM
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Except that reason doesn't hold as you progress upward in price on the various models.
Example
Emonda SL frameset $1700
Emonda SL5 (105) $2700
Emonda SL6 (Ultegra) $3300
$600 diff
You get.. an upgrade to Ultegra (on Merlin, cost diff between 105 and Ultegra groupset is $185)
Wheelset upgrade (the upgraded wheelset costs $370 retail). No idea if they even sell the lower tier wheelset (Affinity disc), but let's put $100 as value difference.
Upgraded handlebar ($50 value difference)
Upgraded alloy stem (supposedly another $50 value upgrade)
Overall I come up with $385 difference in parts. If buying power enabled better better pricing, then Trek should be able to price these two models eg. only $250 apart in price. Pretty much you can almost always find it would be better to buy a lower specced bike, remove and sell the stuff on it, and buy and install the same 'upgrades' yourself.
Example
Emonda SL frameset $1700
Emonda SL5 (105) $2700
Emonda SL6 (Ultegra) $3300
$600 diff
You get.. an upgrade to Ultegra (on Merlin, cost diff between 105 and Ultegra groupset is $185)
Wheelset upgrade (the upgraded wheelset costs $370 retail). No idea if they even sell the lower tier wheelset (Affinity disc), but let's put $100 as value difference.
Upgraded handlebar ($50 value difference)
Upgraded alloy stem (supposedly another $50 value upgrade)
Overall I come up with $385 difference in parts. If buying power enabled better better pricing, then Trek should be able to price these two models eg. only $250 apart in price. Pretty much you can almost always find it would be better to buy a lower specced bike, remove and sell the stuff on it, and buy and install the same 'upgrades' yourself.
12-19-20, 09:16 AM
#97
Advocatus Diaboli
I took a very quick look at saw that the two bikes also come with different saddles, different seatpost caps (cf vs alloy), and different tires....So I wouldn't be surprised if there are other differences that you missed, too. I don't know if they add up to another $385, but they might get close enough that a person wouldn't care. After all, most people buy new bikes to ride - not to swap out parts.
Anyway, the goal isn't to get to a $600 difference. If Trek has purchasing power, the model price difference should instead be well below what anyone off the street could do themselves.
I think a lot of the perception that bikes are more expensive might be down to the bike makers tend to increase the number of spec changes from one model to the next and taking more markup along the way.
12-19-20, 09:18 AM
#98
Advocatus Diaboli
12-19-20, 09:43 AM
#99
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Good catch on the seatposts. I had noticed the saddles, but bontrager lists both saddles at the exact same price. Tire difference is overall $20 for a pair.
Anyway, the goal isn't to get to a $600 difference. If Trek has purchasing power, the model price difference should instead be well below what anyone off the street could do themselves.
I think a lot of the perception that bikes are more expensive might be down to the bike makers tend to increase the number of spec changes from one model to the next and taking more markup along the way.
Anyway, the goal isn't to get to a $600 difference. If Trek has purchasing power, the model price difference should instead be well below what anyone off the street could do themselves.
I think a lot of the perception that bikes are more expensive might be down to the bike makers tend to increase the number of spec changes from one model to the next and taking more markup along the way.
I guess that makes sense: if the markup is a certain percentage of a bike's total production cost, then the absolute dollar value of the markup gets larger as you move up to more costly models.
12-19-20, 09:46 AM
#100
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Watches are a perfect example of Conspicuous Consumption products.
I carry a phone, like every other person over five years of age on the entire planet (even in Third-World countries, phones are pretty popular, i learned.) So ... I have a perfectly accurate timepiece in my pocket almost all the time (sadly .... I leave it home whenever I can.)
Wristwatches are Wholly superfluous. And when I last had one, it was a $3 Timex from a convenience store and it kept perfect time for a couple years per battery.
Expensive watches are bought and worn exclusively to show that people can afford, and are "in the know" about, whichever high-end watch is considered desirable this season, as opposed to those people who buy (laugh, cough) Rolexes or whatever.
The value is entirely in the ability to show it off.
I suspect a lot of really expensive bikes are bought to ride to the café and parked by the outdoor table. Or, are bought by the hyper-competitive "modern executive" type who eityher spends a lot of time in the gym, or on the golf course, or on a bike, or whatever, to inflate his/her ego and have strong competitive talking points in the expensive wine/ single-barrel single-malt scotch bragging sessions.
I figure the real riders get slightly less bling because they are going to race and know the bike will get torn up, and have a few sets of wheels and a favorite saddle already .... and want their bikes to actually score race results, not just be the first in every stop-sign sprint on the Wednesday-night group ride.
But as for bikes in general----every bike outside of a big-box store---and some within---are sold as non-essential, elective-spending products. The markup is based not on the bike's monetary value---production, shipping, promotion costs---but on the sales' region's income profile.
Yes, it can be a competitive market, but no bike shop is going to price a bike lower than cost plus profit plus markup. There is always going to be a margin---on every LBS bike---added just because they shop knows you Want a bike. How big that added markup will be depends on local competition, local economy ... even what street the shop is on.
I used to live near three shops which were all on a major semi-upscale shopping road ... a stretch of road where semi-upscale people would stroll down the double-wide, tree-shaded sidewalks from store to store. The better place to buy a bike was a few miles away in a really ratty part of a much richer town. That shop was small, dark, unfinished inside ... and had the mechanics who race and all that. Even though that shop was two miles one way from one of the most upscale shopping districts in half the state, and three miles from another almost as expensive and desirable ... this shop had the real stuff, because no one wanted to go there, or even knew it was there.
Are bikes "over-priced." Yes, they carry a small or large "luxury tax." They are counted as discretionary-income purchases and are not priced with a utilitarian, minimum profit price scheme, but carry an added markup for their desirability. (you can go to Lowe's and get a utilitarian faucet for $18, or get Moen's for $280 .... both just faucets.)
Is the mark-up "fair"? Personal decision. Don't buy what you think is over-priced.
If you all hadn't paid $2000 in 2007, you wouldn't be looking at $4500 price tags today. Blame yourselves.
I carry a phone, like every other person over five years of age on the entire planet (even in Third-World countries, phones are pretty popular, i learned.) So ... I have a perfectly accurate timepiece in my pocket almost all the time (sadly .... I leave it home whenever I can.)
Wristwatches are Wholly superfluous. And when I last had one, it was a $3 Timex from a convenience store and it kept perfect time for a couple years per battery.
Expensive watches are bought and worn exclusively to show that people can afford, and are "in the know" about, whichever high-end watch is considered desirable this season, as opposed to those people who buy (laugh, cough) Rolexes or whatever.
The value is entirely in the ability to show it off.
I suspect a lot of really expensive bikes are bought to ride to the café and parked by the outdoor table. Or, are bought by the hyper-competitive "modern executive" type who eityher spends a lot of time in the gym, or on the golf course, or on a bike, or whatever, to inflate his/her ego and have strong competitive talking points in the expensive wine/ single-barrel single-malt scotch bragging sessions.
I figure the real riders get slightly less bling because they are going to race and know the bike will get torn up, and have a few sets of wheels and a favorite saddle already .... and want their bikes to actually score race results, not just be the first in every stop-sign sprint on the Wednesday-night group ride.
But as for bikes in general----every bike outside of a big-box store---and some within---are sold as non-essential, elective-spending products. The markup is based not on the bike's monetary value---production, shipping, promotion costs---but on the sales' region's income profile.
Yes, it can be a competitive market, but no bike shop is going to price a bike lower than cost plus profit plus markup. There is always going to be a margin---on every LBS bike---added just because they shop knows you Want a bike. How big that added markup will be depends on local competition, local economy ... even what street the shop is on.
I used to live near three shops which were all on a major semi-upscale shopping road ... a stretch of road where semi-upscale people would stroll down the double-wide, tree-shaded sidewalks from store to store. The better place to buy a bike was a few miles away in a really ratty part of a much richer town. That shop was small, dark, unfinished inside ... and had the mechanics who race and all that. Even though that shop was two miles one way from one of the most upscale shopping districts in half the state, and three miles from another almost as expensive and desirable ... this shop had the real stuff, because no one wanted to go there, or even knew it was there.
Are bikes "over-priced." Yes, they carry a small or large "luxury tax." They are counted as discretionary-income purchases and are not priced with a utilitarian, minimum profit price scheme, but carry an added markup for their desirability. (you can go to Lowe's and get a utilitarian faucet for $18, or get Moen's for $280 .... both just faucets.)
Is the mark-up "fair"? Personal decision. Don't buy what you think is over-priced.
If you all hadn't paid $2000 in 2007, you wouldn't be looking at $4500 price tags today. Blame yourselves.
