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After he retired, my Dad opened a small body and general repair shop. He would always get guys wanting a kickback from the insurance payoff or "while you have the gun out can you just shoot this fender?" Or "this panel wasn't dinged when I bought it in".
scott s. . |
Originally Posted by Chi_Z
(Post 21837677)
with Amazon next day shipping, I have not entered a bike shop for years
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Originally Posted by Kimmo
(Post 21837810)
State of the world would seem to imply otherwise...
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Originally Posted by MinnMan
(Post 21837021)
Sadly, most of my stories are from recent years. the frequency of lame excuses has increased greatly.
I thought I'd heard 'em all over the years, but my eyes were opened to a new angle just the other day. We now have a system whereby students get a small set of self-selected free passes for missing a class, due date, etc. These are called, somewhat misleadingly, 'self-reported absences'. One of my students (thankfully not a graduate one) 'offered' to 'exchange' a 'self-reported absence' with me in return for an extension on a research paper due date. I see this as a natural consequence of the construction of 'student' as 'client of the university' who is a 'customer' for a 'service'. I resisted the temptation to ask what, precisely, I was supposed to do with the proffered sra once it belonged to me. |
I see that stuff all the time. As the warranty person at our shop I get a lot. I think my favorite was the guy who came to the shop originally spent a lot of time with us learning about the bikes and then bought the bike from a duvet cover salesperson on eBay and he needed I believe a new battery or motor on his e-bike (high quality German brand) and we reached out to the company who made the bike and to Bosch and they said we need a proof of purchase from an actual shop (not the eBay sale), I emailed the customer that sorry they cannot process and he said I have a proof of purchase from a bike shop, I said well they aren't a dealer and you bought it from eBay but being a nice guy (and also wanting to see the company reactions) I sent them the fake receipt explaining the situation and they said again NO and one of the dudes expressed regret he didn't get it through us (a licensed dealer). I reached back out the customer and he flipped out and got really angry and I said "look dude here is the situation, you came to us to take our knowledge then you bought a used bike from a duvet seller on eBay, came into our shop again to get warranty on a product you didn't buy from us and now are pawning off a fake receipt from a shop that is not allowed to sell that product and expect free stuff?". He kept being angry but eventually came and picked up the bike though never apologized at least admitted defeat and bought the battery or motor he needed (I cannot remember). He has actually come back since and didn't quite apologize but at least still wanted service and was nice about it and realized he didn't get warranty.
The I think $100 he saved ended up costing him 1k more when he could have bought from us and saved 1k and gotten the battery under warranty. Also I had one where the guy bought a bike again on eBay and had it assembled somewhere not by us, then brought it to us to look at and everything was good and then he took it to a race or some large group event and someone tinkered with it which he admitted to. He comes back to us and says there's a crack and it's our fault. I said since the bike was not purchased through a dealer I cannot get you a warranty and looking at the history you have told me we were somewhere in the middle and I know my staff and know they used a torque wrench but I don't know if the first person to build your bike did that and I doubt the person at the bike race did that in the 3 times you said he touched it, when it came into our shop we saw no signs of cracking. We listed Ruckus and Calfee to get it repaired and of course he flipped out claiming he deserves warranty and I said "yes if you bought the bike through a dealer which you neglected to tell me off the bat" We weren't the last person to touch your bike and you rode it for a significant mileage after someone else touched it 3 times." This is why you buy your products from an authorized reseller of those products. Those companies are generally willing to help out but if you try and subvert the system you are going to be left out. Caveat Emptor |
Originally Posted by Kimmo
(Post 21837935)
25% extra for the last 2% sounds like a bargain to me.
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I had (still have) a challenging client- not really mean or malicious, but a real handful and time-consuming.
At the start of a project, she accused me and crew member of taking or misplacing her item "It was right there- you must have taken it, where is it?". I told her we would make a deal: if I did something with the item, I would pay her a quarter, but if I had nothing to do with it, she would pay me a quarter. She later found where she had put it, & paid up. Next time: same thing, "what did you do with my (item #2)?" I said that this time same deal, only it would cost 50 cents. The item was subsequently found, & she didn't pay, but the accusations mostly stopped. Later in the project, tho, after seeing me carry away an extra (full 4'x8'!) sheet of plywood, she asked if I was stealing her artwork. Fortunately, having identified her as a 'special needs' client, I had budgeted fully an hour a day extra to manage so it worked out. |
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
(Post 21836397)
Well, I suspect this will get ugly at some point.
We deal with a wide variety of customers in terms of their technical knowledge. Since we sell a lot of small parts, this really does come into play. However, we've been selling these parts for over a decade and have put together lots of photos and diagrams to help people understand what we need to know to help them. We've also answered the same basic questions many, many times so a lot of our responses are rote by now. Usually, that is. Last week we sold a small part to a customer. Everything went fine and that should have been it. Then we received an email about a failed part from this customer. It's unfortunate, but it happens. So we started the process of determining the cause and getting the right replacement part to them. To do this, we need to understand WHY the part failed so it doesn't happen again. So we start with basic questions: 1. How did you install the part (hammer?) 2. Where did you buy the original wheel? 3. Can we please get the serial number on the hub so we can confirm we are looking at the right model and therefore providing the correct parts. This is where it goes south. Question number 2 is particularly important. Right now, there are fake Novatec hubs from China floating around. They are close to the originals in spec (not materials) but not exact. We have seen this same failure before from installing actual Novatec parts in one of these fake hubs so we had to confirm this as the cause or rule it out. The response? "You sold me this thing. Give me a new one" Our reply? " We will, but we need to make sure of a few things so this won't happen again." So we asked the same questions again. And Again. And again. And again. Then it was "I don't know what a hub is." We sent photos and asked the same questions again. That looped us back to the very beginning. Rinse and repeat. Then, "You sold me this wheel. Give me the part". We don't sell Novatec wheels. We sent a photo of a wheel and said, "We didn't sell this to you. We sold you this part (another photo) but we need to know where the wheel came from" And on and on. Now we are being called names, accused of being scammers, etc, etc. Some people just can't be helped. Any other bad customer stories or I WAS A BAD CUSTOMER stories? One reason I could never do retail or customer service. |
I think it is sport for some folks.
How late it is, how late... |
Sometimes low cost Chinese parts from ebay work out well.
After one pin hole leak after another from the spokes inside the wheels in spite of the most punctilious installation of the rubber wheel liner I decided to hell with wire wheels and ordered from ebay a pair of mag wheels from China for $130. These wheels are claimed to be lighter than wire wheels but if they are not, the weight difference for non-competitive riding to go to work or the grocery store when I can't afford to operate a car in negligible. It has been over a year and a half and I have never had a flat tire since. I also like the way they look. I also found green tires from Puerto Rico and unlike any other tires I have been putting miles on them since March 2019 and they never show enough wear to be visible. This is not the only time I was better off DIY because I could modify it the way I wanted.
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...6375a11e8a.jpg wheels from China. |
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21837049)
The one that really stands out was about twenty years ago. It was one of those rare clear-cut cases, no question, documented with 100% certainty. We (my GTA and I) gave the young scholar every opportunity to admit his mistake, to take ownership of it, but he stuck to his story. So, I had to drop the hammer on him...Since he was going to flunk the course either way, I felt it had to be referred up the University's administrative hierarchy for institutional sanction.
The very next day I got a letter from his father, who was a local attorney, on his law firm stationary. (Still don't know how he got the letter to my office within 24 hours!) It was quasi-legalistic, quasi-threatening, very long, and copied to my department chair. "My son is honest, he would never lie," etc etc. From the letter, it was clear that the student had not been completely forthcoming with his father -- not surprising. Of course, with one phone call to the father, I could've explained exactly what his son had done, and that the evidence was incontrovertible. But FERPA prevented that, of course. The other one that really sticks out: very large lecture hall, couple hundred students in an intro to Econ course. No real chance of knowing each individual. A young woman takes test, turns it in with one of my students' names on it (let's call it "Susan Jones"), and I just KNOW that this woman is not in the class -- I recognized her from being around our building, and knew she wasn't one of my students. Obviously a ringer, taking the exam for a friend. Asked for her ID, and she hurriedly said, "I don't have it with me." I responded that she would need to stop by my office with an ID before I would grade the exam. Week later, I return the exams - but not hers. Susan Jones emails me about it, and I remind her to stop by my office with her ID. Hesitated, then said she would do that. The next day, a completely different woman (not the one who turned in the exam) walks in my office, pulls an ID out of her pocket, and hands it to me -- it's Susan Jones, of course. "Don't bother," I said. "I'm not blind." Flunked her, and sent a letter to the campus office that handled academic dishonesty. Spotted the other student - the ringer - a couple weeks later, walking into a colleague's classroom. THAT'S why I recognized her - she was majoring in Agricultural Econ, which was right next door to our dept. I went in the room, asked my colleague to tell me the name of the female student in the last row on the right -- I pointed her out. He told me her name. All this happens while she is watching, looking like she's s****ing her pants. I walked out and wrote another letter. And I put one one, and go: WOW! Where did he get the great band! The magnificent soudning chorir. The string section? And in a few seconds I realized: I own the album that he stole that from! His handwrittn music only vaugely resembled how the music went. It was the most blatnetly stupid attempt to pass off someone else's work as your own I've ever encountered. I've come across other things that I strogly suspected of the their other music student friends had written for them, but trying to pass off a massive production, by someone who's won grammies? |
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
(Post 21836397)
So we started the process of determining the cause and getting the right replacement part to them. To do this, we need to understand WHY the part failed so it doesn't happen again. So we start with basic questions:
1. How did you install the part (hammer?) 2. Where did you buy the original wheel? 3. Can we please get the serial number on the hub so we can confirm we are looking at the right model and therefore providing the correct parts. This is where it goes south. Question number 2 is particularly important. Right now, there are fake Novatec hubs from China floating around. They are close to the originals in spec (not materials) but not exact. We have seen this same failure before from installing actual Novatec parts in one of these fake hubs so we had to confirm this as the cause or rule it out. The response? "You sold me this thing. Give me a new one" Our reply? " We will, but we need to make sure of a few things so this won't happen again." So we asked the same questions again. And Again. And again. And again. Then it was "I don't know what a hub is." We sent photos and asked the same questions again. That looped us back to the very beginning. Rinse and repeat. Then, "You sold me this wheel. Give me the part". We don't sell Novatec wheels. We sent a photo of a wheel and said, "We didn't sell this to you. We sold you this part (another photo) but we need to know where the wheel came from" And on and on. Now we are being called names, accused of being scammers, etc, etc. Some people just can't be helped. Any other bad customer stories or I WAS A BAD CUSTOMER stories? 1. Attack the person for "not installing it right" 2. Redirect into a meltdown about how you didn't buy the bike/wheel from **your** place 3. Ask time consuming or difficult questions to try to fatigue the other person until they give up. Since it seems like you're being obstinate and disingenous they start being obstinate and disingenous back. Usually what experienced places do is something like "It sounds like unfortunately we won't be able to diagnose what went wrong without seeing the bike. You can return the part for a full refund, or bring the bike in and we'll take a look at it in person." |
Originally Posted by dkatz1
(Post 21842947)
I've been a professor of music for 31 years. I often give students an assignment to write a short piece of music, and provide the written music (analzyed) and a recording of it. The recordings are generally of poor quality, wiht one or two instruments, or from various software sequences. It's not a recording project, it's supposed to show they know the classroom material about chord progressions and melodies.
And I put one one, and go: WOW! Where did he get the great band! The magnificent soudning chorir. The string section? And in a few seconds I realized: I own the album that he stole that from! His handwrittn music only vaugely resembled how the music went. It was the most blatnetly stupid attempt to pass off someone else's work as your own I've ever encountered. I've come across other things that I strogly suspected of the their other music student friends had written for them, but trying to pass off a massive production, by someone who's won grammies? A colleague once had a student who turned in a friend's paper from a previous semester of the same course...And forget to even change the name at the top. :twitchy: |
Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21842991)
Yep. When I'm reading a sophomore's paper and see a whole bunch of individual lines that each looks like it came from a journal article -- but they don't really fit together -- I know what's going on.
A colleague once had a student who turned in a friend's paper from a previous semester of the same course...And forget to even change the name at the top. :twitchy: |
Originally Posted by badger1
(Post 21843006)
Heh! A common enough thing in my place. Sadly, I not only have to deal with this nonsense in my own classes but also deal with -- and deny, 99% of the time -- the 'appeals' stemming from instances in colleagues' courses. The range of excuses is simply jaw-dropping. I especially like the 'I submitted the paper on my friend's computer; it must have put his/her name in automatically ... or something' one.
Turnitin is a great system, too - will do the same thing. |
Originally Posted by mcours2006
(Post 21836801)
It's impossible to reason with people who are unreasonable. Fortunately for all our sakes, there are more folks who are reasonable than not.
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
(Post 21842965)
I mean...your list here is a cycle though every tactic I've run into from stores that wanted to claim they had a return policy but not actually honor it.
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Originally Posted by blacknbluebikes
(Post 21837232)
I have a somewhat different definition of "worst. customer. ever." ... early 80's, I'm a part time employee at a Sears in western PA. Late one weeknight, maybe half hour before closing, three guys walk into department 9 with ski masks. Yeah. 9 is hardware. They grab the biggest boltcutters on the wall and walk to department 6, sporting goods. Cut the chain on the gun cabinet and clear the rack, plus ammo. Walked out the back door while three of us crouched behind the counter of the register station. All over in four minutes. I didn't like their attitude, have to admit.
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Originally Posted by Koyote
(Post 21843024)
I have them submit electronically, so I have all of the old papers on my hard drive. Then it's easy to prove when this happens.
Turnitin is a great system, too - will do the same thing. |
Originally Posted by PaulRivers
(Post 21842965)
I mean...your list here is a cycle though every tactic I've run into from stores that wanted to claim they had a return policy but not actually honor it.
1. Attack the person for "not installing it right" 2. Redirect into a meltdown about how you didn't buy the bike/wheel from **your** place 3. Ask time consuming or difficult questions to try to fatigue the other person until they give up. Since it seems like you're being obstinate and disingenous they start being obstinate and disingenous back. Usually what experienced places do is something like "It sounds like unfortunately we won't be able to diagnose what went wrong without seeing the bike. You can return the part for a full refund, or bring the bike in and we'll take a look at it in person." 1. I was kidding about the hammer but we do need to check a few things to make sure it was installed right (so a replacement won't fail again). 2. The counterfeit issue is a serious problem and we can't help if it didn't come from Novatec (If you read carefully, we don't sell Novatec wheels...) We MUST rule this out. 3. I guess looking at a hub and writing down the serial number that is staring you in the face is too difficult for some. Good to know. Oh, since the customer lives on the other side of the planet, I doubt they will be popping by for a quick check. Try actually reading the post next time. Sad. |
Originally Posted by dkatz1
(Post 21842947)
It was the most blatnetly stupid attempt to pass off someone else's work as your own I've ever encountered.
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Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
(Post 21843493)
Sorry, wrong on all counts.
1. I was kidding about the hammer but we do need to check a few things to make sure it was installed right (so a replacement won't fail again). 2. The counterfeit issue is a serious problem and we can't help if it didn't come from Novatec (If you read carefully, we don't sell Novatec wheels...) We MUST rule this out. 3. I guess looking at a hub and writing down the serial number that is staring you in the face is too difficult for some. Good to know. Oh, since the customer lives on the other side of the planet, I doubt they will be popping by for a quick check. Try actually reading the post next time. Sad. 1. Attack the person (because they bad idiot) 2. Redirect into a meltdown about how (they didn't do it right) 3. Ask time consuming or difficult questions to try to fatigue the other person until they give up. I'd say my observation wasn't just an observation but was right on. The "sales person tries to trick you then gets increasingly aggressive and upset when you realize the trick" thing is cliche. If I bought a part and it didn't work and I want to return it (via policy) I'm not obligated to sit through your various tactics to try to make the situation time wasting and uncomfortable in the hopes I'll give up on the return. |
Originally Posted by Bob Dopolina
(Post 21836397)
Well, I suspect this will get ugly at some point.
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
(Post 21843534)
If I bought a part and it didn't work and I want to return it ...
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Originally Posted by PaulRivers
(Post 21843534)
Being that you followed up by doing the exact things I just mentioned:
1. Attack the person (because they bad idiot) 2. Redirect into a meltdown about how (they didn't do it right) 3. Ask time consuming or difficult questions to try to fatigue the other person until they give up. I'd say my observation wasn't just an observation but was right on. The "sales person tries to trick you then gets increasingly aggressive and upset when you realize the trick" thing is cliche. If I bought a part and it didn't work and I want to return it (via policy) I'm not obligated to sit through your various tactics to try to make the situation time wasting and uncomfortable in the hopes I'll give up on the return. 1. Never attacked anyone. I asked how the part was installed. Please explain how that is an attack. 2. No redirect of any kind (this is delusional). I tried to confirm the product was as claimed and not a known fake. 3. I guess looking at a hub and reading the serial number (to confirm we are talking about the correct product) is challenging and time-consuming for some. Who knew. So now that you have demonstrated your complete lack of understanding about how warranties are processed please explain how you would have handled the situation and how you would have reacted to obvious red flags. I'm guessing it would be something like just give people the stuff they claim failed for no good reason and with no guarantee that it won't just happen again? Sad. |
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