Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Not Junk Anymore

Notices
Road Cycling ďIt is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.Ē -- Ernest Hemingway

Not Junk Anymore

Old 01-03-21, 11:43 AM
  #26  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,793

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7803 Post(s)
Liked 8,457 Times in 4,314 Posts
Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
"LSD" is best thought of as "Long Steady Distance" rather than "Long Slow Distance."

And again, base training has long been a "thing." It's not some new discovery.
True. It's only really 'Long Slow Distance' in running, where the term was originally coined, because in running you can't coast.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 01-03-21, 11:51 AM
  #27  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,793

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7803 Post(s)
Liked 8,457 Times in 4,314 Posts
Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Ask 99 people what they think LSD stands for (in a training context) and they're not going to say steady, though yes, I completely agree with that particular concept (but certainly not that a block of training should consist solely of that).

In periodization (which most anyone talking about "base" is actually referring to), it is general fitness.

An aerobic "base" is something built on years of work. It's not something you do in the winter time that magically goes away over the course of a season only to be rebuilt the following year. Hence, fitness progression and the ability to tolerate higher workloads each successive year.

It's also the reason why people who have trained and raced for years can regain and maintain fitness much more quickly and easily compared to those that haven't.

I can take six months off, ride for a week, and ride with any group ride in the area (and drop most people). Not because I had one week of "base training", but because I have a 15 year base that provides a large amount of residual ability.
Though I have never raced and have never been especially fast, I have noticed a similar phenomenon after winter layoffs. The first couple rides in the later winter, I feel sluggish, like I've lost HUGE amounts of fitness. Almost feels like starting over. But if I keep riding, very quickly I find myself feeling better and going farther and faster. It doesn't feel like I'm BUILDING fitness so much as I'm RELEASING IT, like it's there and just needs a push to break it back out of hibernation. Sounds odd, I know, but that's the feeling, and I've noticed it for years now.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles

Last edited by genejockey; 01-03-21 at 12:16 PM.
genejockey is offline  
Likes For genejockey:
Old 01-03-21, 12:07 PM
  #28  
guadzilla
Pointy Helmet Tribe
 
guadzilla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Offthebackistan
Posts: 4,334

Bikes: Venge, Shiv, Factor LS

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 519 Post(s)
Liked 626 Times in 294 Posts
Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
I donít thing too many people would consider that junk. My HR definitely climbs during the rare Z2 erg session when I can park my aching ass for that long. If nothing else, the sweat loss causes enough volume reduction to drive an increase.
True. Sorry, i wasnt clear with my point - I meant to say that this long Z2 ride is an example of the sort of ride that is meant by LSD/volume in traditional base. It's not riding for 3-4 hours *averaging* middle/low Z2 but with 1+ hours in Z1/coasting. That isnt very efficient from a training point of view - although there is a lot to be said for the fun aspects of a social group ride.
guadzilla is offline  
Likes For guadzilla:
Old 01-03-21, 12:21 PM
  #29  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 13,793

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7803 Post(s)
Liked 8,457 Times in 4,314 Posts
Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
One of the criticisms that Dylan brings up in his video and I have heard others say is that there is a tendency for some cyclists to go too hard on endurance and recovery days and then not go hard enough on hard days.
That, I can easily believe. I know when I head out thinking I'm going to do a Z1-2 ride I often find myself chasing other riders, or pushing to stay ahead, or just charging up a rise for the sheer fun of it and then I get home and find I've spent 30% of the ride in Z3. And doing a couple structured 'Sweet Spot' workouts on the trainer showed my just how much harder I SHOULD have been going on some rides I intended to be tempo/threshold rides.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 01-03-21, 12:31 PM
  #30  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 18,889

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 113 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3589 Post(s)
Liked 1,578 Times in 1,153 Posts
Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
I first heard about the concept from a coach who spent time working with with Charlie Walsh back in the late 80’s so yes it had been around awhile. It is information that could be useful to some and not for others. Dylan does seem to be a credible source. At the very least, his opinions looked to be backed up with data.
Yes, Dylan makes reference to good data, however he doesn't practice PT himself or offer his own version of a polarized plan, at least not that I've seen.

Here's a good study of various training plans which he's featured: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3912323/
Plan C is the polarized one, but as rubik has mentioned above, it is fairly high volume, an 11 hr./week plan. No SS training. I think most experienced riders under 65 could keep up with it. I have a 66 y.o. riding buddy who's taking advantage of Covid time to ride 250 miles/week in hilly terrain. He's going to be a monster this summer. Won't be riding with him this year.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 01-03-21, 12:56 PM
  #31  
colnago62
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked 410 Times in 229 Posts
Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
Yes, Dylan makes reference to good data, however he doesn't practice PT himself or offer his own version of a polarized plan, at least not that I've seen.
I would say that is not uncommon when in a coaching capacity. His needs and goals may not be the same as his riders and require different approaches. I canít remember who, but there was somebody encouraging some zone 2 riding even in a low volume plan. The thinking was that there are important adaptations that only occur at the lower intensity. I believe one example was your bodyís ability to learn to use more fat as fuel was one example that was used.
colnago62 is offline  
Old 01-07-21, 09:22 PM
  #32  
colnago62
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Posts: 2,430
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 739 Post(s)
Liked 410 Times in 229 Posts
This video looks at the question of low intensity early season training more directly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsXh...ature=youtu.be
colnago62 is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.