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Trek sued in Southern District of NY for Wavecell marketing

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Trek sued in Southern District of NY for Wavecell marketing

Old 01-08-21, 11:23 PM
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Trek sued in Southern District of NY for Wavecell marketing

https://www.bicycleretailer.com/indu...g#.X_kxb2lMHqs

How dare anyone even attempt to besmirch the most significant advancement in cycling in the last 30 years!***

...truth be told, I like the boa retention and the magnetic strap clip on those helmets. Really nice touches. The helmet feels like it weights 8# when its on my head though.
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Old 01-08-21, 11:46 PM
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I got one recently, and I really like it. I guess my old helmet must have been the same weight as I don't find that obnoxiously heavy. I too have come to like the strap. My one complaint and I knew it going into it, you can not scratch your head with it on...
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Old 01-09-21, 08:55 AM
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So what's the gain for the those who pile onto the class action suit? It looks like the claim is that there is some amount of overpayment for a product that may be not much better than a conventional helmet. So what are we talking -- $50, $75 per claimant? Is it worth the effort for those folks to join the class action?
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Old 01-09-21, 10:26 AM
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More like tree fitty ($3.50) after the lawyers all pay themselves. What a colossal waste of time and energy.
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Old 01-09-21, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
So what's the gain for the those who pile onto the class action suit? It looks like the claim is that there is some amount of overpayment for a product that may be not much better than a conventional helmet. So what are we talking -- $50, $75 per claimant? Is it worth the effort for those folks to join the class action?
most of the time, thereís no effort involved on the part of most of the class, once the suit is up and running. My inclusion in several class action suits comprised a letter from a law firm basically saying ďyouíre a member of a class - if you want to opt out and pursue individual action, let us know by X dateĒ (I never did, because Iím not particularly litigious) occasionally followed months later by a check ranging from 60 cents to several thousand dollars.

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Old 01-09-21, 10:38 AM
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The last paragraph of the article is only tangentially related and should not have been included, but it's far more interesting.

In 2019, a Knoxville, Tennessee, law firm announced an investigation into a potential class-action lawsuit against companies that sell bike helmets lacking new anti-concussion technology like WaveCel and MIPS. Greg Coleman Law is advertising on TopClassActions.com, trying to find people who have suffered head injuries while using helmets lacking the new technologies. The potential lawsuit was first reported by the Bicycle Helmet Safety Insitute, and a spokesman there told BRAIN on Thursday there has been no update.
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Old 01-09-21, 10:38 AM
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I've opted in to a couple class action lawsuits. The biggest return that I got was from buying a diamond engagement ring, and (IIRC) that class action check wouldn't have covered date night at McDonalds.
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Old 01-09-21, 11:02 AM
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While most of these class action lawsuits are a joke, not all are.

In the mid 90's I able to get all of the polybutylene plumbing ripped out if my house and replaced with copper under a class action lawsuit. In addition I was reimbursed for the repairs and damages from 2 leaks the occurred prior the house being replumbed. This was a very big job amounting to several thousand dollars but could have been even more since both of my leaks very fairly minor and didn't do a lot of damage.

On the other hand, the Trek lawsuit is laughable. It doesn't seem terribly worse than most of the garbage that comes out of these marketing departments.
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Old 01-09-21, 11:09 AM
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Puffing is not very actionable, especially in federal court. If the suit is not dismissed, there may be a settlement giving buyers of the helmets like me a coupon for $3.50 off the purchase of a new Trek helmet.
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Old 01-09-21, 08:55 PM
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From a thread in Advocacy and Safety... sums it up perfectly.....

Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Class action suits like this benefit the plaintiff lawyers, and typically offer next to nothing for the consumer. These guys will nit pic Trek’s advertising, throw spaghetti against the wall, and hope enough sticks to coerce a settlement from Trek that will pay the lawyers millions, and give Wave cell helmet purchasers a $10 coupon on a new helmet.

There’s data out there on Wave Cell, MIPS, and standard helmets. As a consumer, you can review that data and draw your own conclusions.

A class action lawsuit industry that enriches lawyers only drives up costs, and does nothing to help me as a consumer.
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Old 01-09-21, 09:06 PM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
I've opted in to a couple class action lawsuits. The biggest return that I got was from buying a diamond engagement ring, and (IIRC) that class action check wouldn't have covered date night at McDonalds.
I remember that diamond lawsuit- 13-15 years ago or so? Ha, I'd forgotten about it until now.
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Old 01-09-21, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
I remember that diamond lawsuit- 13-15 years ago or so? Ha, I'd forgotten about it until now.
Sounds about right.
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Old 01-10-21, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jaxgtr View Post
My one complaint and I knew it going into it, you can not scratch your head with it on...
Does that mean bees and wasps can’t get in and sting or just no itching when they do?

Last edited by dbf73; 01-10-21 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 01-10-21, 01:43 PM
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Originally Posted by dbf73 View Post
Does that mean bees and wasps canít get in and sting or just no itching when they do?
Yea I would find it amazed if the little buggers could get in there while you are riding without a lot of effort on their part. They would have to be pretty damn small.
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Old 01-10-21, 04:55 PM
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Originally Posted by August West View Post
While most of these class action lawsuits are a joke, not all are.
.
Agreed. My personal example, is I got several thousand dollars from the Porsche IMS class action, where Porsche knowingly continued to market a flawed design, leading to engine failure costing thousands of dollars to repair.

However, the Trek example is trying to cash in on debatable marketing claims that have caused no tangible injury to anyone.
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Old 01-10-21, 09:08 PM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
Agreed. My personal example, is I got several thousand dollars from the Porsche IMS class action, where Porsche knowingly continued to market a flawed design, leading to engine failure costing thousands of dollars to repair.

However, the Trek example is trying to cash in on debatable marketing claims that have caused no tangible injury to anyone.
Paying more for the helmet if its based on lies could be viewed as an 'injury'.
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Old 01-11-21, 05:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Paying more for the helmet if its based on lies could be viewed as an 'injury'.
True, but consumers routinely choose to pay extra for helmets based on marketing. You can buy a Wave Cell helmet from Trek for anywhere from $99 to $299. The puffery used to justify the higher end Wave Cell, just like higher end Giroís and other brands is at least as suspect as any problem with their safety claims. Also you can pay as much or more for a MIPS helmet, or a conventional helmet.

I have a Wave Cell helmet. I knew when I bought it that the safety claims were based on limited data. Iím not terribly upset that thereís now additional data to question the original data, and Iím certainly not holding my breath waiting for my $10 off coupon.
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Old 01-11-21, 06:22 AM
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30 years in clinical research makes all helmet superiority claims seem pretty airy to me, but 33 years in clinical neurology makes me buy MIPS. Wavecell looks too hot.
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Old 01-11-21, 06:46 AM
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Ditto on class action suits. The most I ever got was $3.00 for a multi million dollar suit. The legal fees eat most of the settlement and then, by the time it is divided up , a couple of dollars to those that were involved.
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Old 01-11-21, 09:41 AM
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Originally Posted by merlinextraligh View Post
True, but consumers routinely choose to pay extra for helmets based on marketing. You can buy a Wave Cell helmet from Trek for anywhere from $99 to $299. The puffery used to justify the higher end Wave Cell, just like higher end Giroís and other brands is at least as suspect as any problem with their safety claims. Also you can pay as much or more for a MIPS helmet, or a conventional helmet.

I have a Wave Cell helmet. I knew when I bought it that the safety claims were based on limited data. Iím not terribly upset that thereís now additional data to question the original data, and Iím certainly not holding my breath waiting for my $10 off coupon.
https://cyclingtips.com/2021/01/trek...safety-claims/

This helps explain some of the issue too. You mentioned missing which made me think of this article. Mips is very careful to claim there us a measurable benefit. Its how all the brands are, really...except Bontrager.

Bontrager declared its X % safer and thats being challeneged. Its the potential downside of making a definitive claim. The potential upside is that Bontrager shows supporting evidence and they get some good publicity because courts accept the claim that their helmet is safer.

All this really comes down to how the helmets safety is tested. 2 tests can produce 2 different results. When comparing a lot of helmets, 10 tests can produce 10 different tests, probably.
This helmet does well with side glancing blow, this helmet does well with hit to the crown, this helmet does best in a back of head impact, etc etc etc.


I'm not hoping trek wins or loses, its all just quite interesting to me since they were so bold with their marketing.
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Old 01-11-21, 10:39 AM
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An hilarious thing about the article is that another Class Action firm is looking to sue helmet manufacturers for not using Wave Cell technology. As a manufacturer you’re damned if you do and if you don’t.

These Class action firms, are not regular lawyers responding to the needs of clients who come to them with problems needing redressed. They actively seek out alleged problems and discrepancies so they can bring suit. Once they gin up a theory, then they find a lead plaintiff. And file suit.
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Old 01-11-21, 11:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Darth Lefty View Post
The last paragraph of the article is only tangentially related and should not have been included, but it's far more interesting.
I was just about to quote this. Bring out a new product and get sued because it isn't industry changing. Don't adopt the new non-industry changing technology and get sued for not adopting it....

The US has to adopt a "losing plaintiff pays the defendents costs" model in lawsuits.
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Old 01-11-21, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by MoAlpha View Post
30 years in clinical research makes all helmet superiority claims seem pretty airy to me, but 33 years in clinical neurology makes me buy MIPS. Wavecell looks too hot.
+1. My experience with clinical neurology was as a patient. Early Lambert owner who experienced the fork failure - going most of 35 mph. Coma, CAT scan (1977 when those computerized felines still carried the letter "A"). Since then it has taken very little to hit my head hard enough for another concussion.. I've even received them from hard body slams,no head contact. (Slightly different dynamic but I call it "NFL loose brain syndrome". Pretty sure those linemen would get what I'm saying right away.)

2013 I had a nasty spill. Hit my head hard. (Fully conscious and aware in real time what was happening until my brain decided I didn't need to witness the bones breaking and the rest. As soon as I came to a stop, I was fully conscious. The following car was right where it should be. So, what made this crash so interesting in terms of this discussion was the complete lack of concussion despite hitting my head hard. (Real damage to the helmet that matched my memory.) But I apparently hadn't tightened my chinstrap. Helmet twisted near off, carrying off my glasses (and cutting my face with them). Nearly took off my opposing ear.

A fellow cyclist happened to be behind me and witnessed everything. Had some emergency training. Walked me around (though I hardly needed his physical support. I had busted collarbone and ribs and knew it but I could walk just fine.) Questioned me and found me completely coherent.

A couple of week later I read about MIPS. The concept of the helmet slipping, Yes! My helmet slipped badly and I walked away with zero concussion to this NFL brain! I'm on. Get me one! Took over a year but I bought the first visibly colored MIPS helmet that fit. Haven't crashed it yet (and presume I have frustrated Murphy; a good indication that it works).
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Old 01-11-21, 01:50 PM
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Trek claims "up to 48x", not "48x." This means "48x or less", same thing. As for the test data it should all be reproducible and independently verifiable.
https://trek.scene7.com/is/content/Tr...ct_testing.pdf
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Old 01-11-21, 01:53 PM
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Originally Posted by stevel610 View Post
The US has to adopt a "losing plaintiff pays the defendents costs" model in lawsuits.
Safety products have a hard row to hoe in the market because it's always more money up front to avoid costs that might not occur later, and it's full cost sunk immediately, not a small monthly price like insurance. When the guy who invented the auto-brake table saw got no traction in the market, he tried to get insurance companies to require it of wood shops. I haven't checked in on that story lately. It was a really difficult sell, because when the saw braked there was a large assembly to replace, in addition to costing more up front. So "false positives" were very expensive. But real positives prevent losing fingers. Lots of times this is solved in reality by having the government take care of it, with regulation.
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