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Advice on Purchasing 2011 S-Works from Private Seller

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Advice on Purchasing 2011 S-Works from Private Seller

Old 02-08-21, 01:34 PM
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Advice on Purchasing 2011 S-Works from Private Seller

There's a 2011 S-Works Tarmac for sale on bay area craigslist at 2.6k. The seller is the original owner and lists the bike's condition as excellent. The price is higher than that given by bicyclebluebook.com, but included is a Garmin edge 510 and what seems like an upgraded groupset (Shimano Dura Ace Di2 shifting) and wheels (Zipp 303), along with an extra set of Roval Fusee SLX wheels with a Shimano Dura Ace cassette. From comparing pictures online of the rear derailleur, I believe it's a first generation of Dura Ace Di2 (see picture below). I'm assuming condition is very-good to excellent and have plans for a mechanic to assess the bike before purchasing were I to go forward in that direction. Is there room to negotiate a lower price, or is this a fair price as it stands? Can post the full listing if more information would be helpful. Thank you.
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Old 02-08-21, 01:49 PM
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Iride01
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For 2500 USD you can have a brand new 2021 Tarmac with 10 speeds. Sure it's Tiagra and your 10 year old used bike is DuraAce, but it's old and who knows how worn out. Maybe it works well now, but will another 1000 miles take it past the point you have to put some more cash into it?

If you already live at a high level of cycling performance and you know those higher end (at their time) components will benefit you, then maybe there is something to that used bike.... but it's priced way to high for me.

DuraAce will be out or is out now with 12 speed rears. DuraAce went 11 speed in 2012. Ultegra and 105 after.


edit:

Oh yeah, if you are patient and can wait till mid March, Specialized might have their spring sale again. I got my Tarmac with Ultegra Di2 for the not much more than I would have paid for a Tarmac with 105 before the sale. Not all models and tier levels get a great sale price, but if I remember correctly, I could have gotten a brand new 2019 S-Works Roubaix for almost half it's normal price during their 2020 spring sale. Great deal, but I didn't want a Roubaix.

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Old 02-08-21, 02:12 PM
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Just based on the one limited photo, I'm suspicious of the "very good or excellent" condition description. There are lots of scratches on the frame and rear derailleur, which may have zero impact on performance, but if someone describes something as "excellent" I would not expect to see any scratches.

I have no idea about price, but Zipp 303's are nice wheels (assuming they're not fakes) and would add some value. Personally I would be concerned about limited tire clearance and 10 speed drivetrain. This bike would be more appealing if it had mechanical Dura Ace, which seems like it would be a lot easer to work on and replace parts. $2600 is a lot for a 10 year old bike, even it it was top-of-the-line at the time...
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Old 02-08-21, 03:02 PM
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Since you're planning to have it looked over by a mechanic, I'd wait to see what they say. If he tells you it's been immaculately maintained, you may find it worth the asking price. If he tells you it needs work or there are parts that will need to be replaced soon, that is justification to offer a lesser price.

Offer what you think is fair as opposed to what you think is the lowest you can get away with. If he accepts your offer, everyone is happy. If he doesn't, you can keep looking.
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Old 02-08-21, 04:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Ogsarg View Post
Since you're planning to have it looked over by a mechanic, I'd wait to see what they say. If he tells you it's been immaculately maintained, you may find it worth the asking price. If he tells you it needs work or there are parts that will need to be replaced soon, that is justification to offer a lesser price.

Offer what you think is fair as opposed to what you think is the lowest you can get away with. If he accepts your offer, everyone is happy. If he doesn't, you can keep looking.
Coming to a fair deal suitable to both parties is my goal, you described it well, as low-balling is not my intention. I'm trying to get a sense of how other's would intuit the deal as my intuition when it comes to assessing bikes and their parts is lacking and the research I've done leaves me still in ambiguous territory as whether the seller's price is fair. They seem personable in correspondence, but not forthcoming with details for which I've asked regarding the year of the Dura Ace Di2 shifting. As others have mentioned, have used 'excellent' to describe parts the seem in inferior condition as far as external wear goes. These prompted some alarms for me, so before any greater commitment perhaps thought if it seemed off to others. In your opinion, would it be appropriate to ask the mechanic whether the price of the deal seemed fair were they to assess the bike's condition as excellent?
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Old 02-08-21, 06:31 PM
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if is is as picture in Blue book it would be a SL3 - You will barely be able to fit a 25mm tire - it will go in but you are very close to the stay.
SL3 have external cabling - the di cabling wont look that neat.
10 speed DA is nice but is not compatible with any current Di2 cables / harnesses. if something goes wrong you will have to hunt for some vintage parts
Zipp 303s firecrest or the alum/carbon hybrid - make sure it does not have the recalled front hubs (falcon grey)
at 2.6k you can likely put together a SL4 with DA 11s mechanical if you are ok hunting down the parts.
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Old 02-09-21, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
For 2500 USD you can have a brand new 2021 Tarmac with 10 speeds. Sure it's Tiagra and your 10 year old used bike is DuraAce, but it's old and who knows how worn out. Maybe it works well now, but will another 1000 miles take it past the point you have to put some more cash into it?

If you already live at a high level of cycling performance and you know those higher end (at their time) components will benefit you, then maybe there is something to that used bike.... but it's priced way to high for me.

DuraAce will be out or is out now with 12 speed rears. DuraAce went 11 speed in 2012. Ultegra and 105 after.


edit:

Oh yeah, if you are patient and can wait till mid March, Specialized might have their spring sale again. I got my Tarmac with Ultegra Di2 for the not much more than I would have paid for a Tarmac with 105 before the sale. Not all models and tier levels get a great sale price, but if I remember correctly, I could have gotten a brand new 2019 S-Works Roubaix for almost half it's normal price during their 2020 spring sale. Great deal, but I didn't want a Roubaix.
I doubt there will be a spring sale. Most manufacturers are out of product until they start their 2022 run.
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Old 02-09-21, 11:04 AM
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MeagreAger Depending on the size you need, there are lots of bikes around in that general quality level / price. For instance, I have a 2012 Pinarello FP Quatro, with a full Chorus groupset, Campagnolo Bullet 50 wheels that would easily be available for less than $2600. frame is a 54, PM me if you might want to explore this as an option. ( you said Bay Area before, I am in the central valley, so if Bay Area is local to you we are neighbors!)

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Old 02-09-21, 11:18 AM
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It has 53/39 rings & the max 28/11 cassette. Unless you are very strong or very hill-avoidant,

for riding in bay area you may soon want lower gears, requiring expensive new rings, 110 BCD spider, and likely even more expensive RD.

I actually have that crank/spider/50-34 set for sale if it came to that.
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Old 02-09-21, 11:38 AM
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10 speed Di2? That's a deal breaker.
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Old 02-09-21, 12:14 PM
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There are too many dead ends with this bike to consider it for long term ownership.
10 speed parts especially high end are getting difficult to source
Gearing is from an era gone by 53-39 with 11-28 would be a tough day in the mountains
1st Generation Di2 parts are a problem and orphaned technology
The limited tire clearance is a deal-breaker on its own
The unknown history of a lightweight 10 year old carbon would be unnerving
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Old 02-09-21, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by mgopack42 View Post
MeagreAger Depending on the size you need, there are lots of bikes around in that general quality level / price. For instance, I have a 2012 Pinarello FP Quatro, with a full Chorus groupset, Campagnolo Bullet 50 wheels that would easily be available for less than $2600. frame is a 54, PM me if you might want to explore this as an option. ( you said Bay Area before, I am in the central valley, so if Bay Area is local to you we are neighbors!)
We're indeed neighbors, hi. 54cm is too small for me unfortunately. I'm 6'2" and looking for either 58cm or 60cm. It's a beautiful bike though and good to know what I can expect to get for the money I'm putting up; that this SL3 isn't so promising. if you have any other bikes in a larger I would be interested. Thanks
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Old 02-09-21, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
There are too many dead ends with this bike to consider it for long term ownership.
10 speed parts especially high end are getting difficult to source
Gearing is from an era gone by 53-39 with 11-28 would be a tough day in the mountains
1st Generation Di2 parts are a problem and orphaned technology
The limited tire clearance is a deal-breaker on its own
The unknown history of a lightweight 10 year old carbon would be unnerving
I pretty much feel the same, except on the last point, I'd feel that way about just about any frame regardless of material. Though not to the point of being un-nerving and not enough to nix the deal on it's own.

IMO, carbon bikes will visually show any concerns about damage from accidents. The failures of carbon frames that didn't show any prior visual clues is likely to be the same as steel and aluminum bikes that didn't show prior evidence of failure. Maybe even less.

Out of all the carbon myths that are out there, this is the myth that even I had a problem believing when I was still chanting the steel is real mantra.

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Old 02-09-21, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Iride01 View Post
I pretty much feel the same, except on the last point, I'd feel that way about just about any frame regardless of material.

IMO, carbon bikes will visually show any concerns about damage from accidents. The failures of carbon frames that didn't show any prior visual clues is likely to be the same as steel and aluminum bikes that didn't show prior evidence of failure. Maybe even less.

Out of all the carbon myths that are out there, this is the myth that even I had a problem believing when I was still chanting the steel is real mantra.
I am a pro carbon guy and don't buy into this whole carbon is fragile and the bike will collapse under you with the slightest scratch! I should have been more specific, my personal concern would be with the carbon fork/steerer assembly combined with a modified bike (why change all these parts) as well as I am in the Clydesdale category I would be uncomfortable putting multiple years and many miles on that bike. For the record, my main bikes are all carbon and have no concerns with my personal bikes.
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Old 02-09-21, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by MeagreAger View Post
In your opinion, would it be appropriate to ask the mechanic whether the price of the deal seemed fair were they to assess the bike's condition as excellent?
Sure, why not? The only caveat I'd add to this is that value is subjective, particularly on high-end equipment like this. Many in this thread are accurately noting the practical downsides to the drivetrain and frame geometry, but S-Works, Dura Ace, Zipps... there is definitely an emotional tug to those labels. This is an ultra-light and fast race machine that still looks really good and has a lot of bling factor. That may or may not add value to you, but there are plenty of people out there who would happily live with the downsides just to have that bike in their garage.

This is a bit like buying a used sports car. If you've got your heart set on Alfa Romeo, you are daydreaming of cruising the coast with the top down, and at some point you stop worrying about the A/C being broken or the rip in the seats, or the fact that it is slower than a Honda Accord.
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Old 02-09-21, 07:14 PM
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FWIW, That's the frame that I would upgrade my 2007 S works to-

just before the change to the PIA seat post clamp, & I'm happy to continue dallying in ten speed & rim brakes.
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Old 02-09-21, 07:20 PM
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I am glad you asked this question because I have been looking on eBay for awhile and everything I see seems higher priced than bicycle blue book would imply (even one listed by bicycle blue book that was WAY high). Not sure what to make of it.
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Old 02-09-21, 11:19 PM
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I bought a mint 2010 S-Works Roubaix SL2 for $1500 shipped, full dura ace groupset, sure it's mechanical but it's cheaper than some aluminum bikes and it's sub 16lb without accessories so you can definitely get great value out of a great deal.

Climbs like a champ and rides smooth like butter.

Just for price comparison and room for negotiation for your new bike.

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Old 02-10-21, 12:39 AM
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From where did you buy it, a site other than proscloset or pinkbike?
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Old 02-10-21, 01:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lifanus View Post
I bought a mint 2010 S-Works Roubaix SL2 for $1500 shipped, full dura ace groupset, sure it's mechanical but it's cheaper than some aluminum bikes and it's sub 16lb without accessories so you can definitely get great value out of a great deal.

Climbs like a champ and rides smooth like butter.

Just for price comparison and room for negotiation for your new bike.

What did you ride prior to the 2010 S-works? Was the difference dramatic? Subtle?
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Old 02-10-21, 08:29 AM
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good price,,, all specialized road bikes are on backorder for at least a year, if you want one now , i would buy.
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Old 02-10-21, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by MeagreAger View Post
From where did you buy it, a site other than proscloset or pinkbike?
I look at multiple places, This Roubaix I bought on eBay from a seller called "The Bicycle Guys", they listed at $1600 and I made an offer at $1400+shipping. They seems to be selling reasonably priced used bikes in good condition.

The Tarmac price seems to be great, considering those wheelsets are not cheap wheelsets, and di2 shifting, even if it's older generation... Just make sure the wheels are straight and true, and no damage on bike frame

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Old 02-10-21, 10:50 AM
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Originally Posted by patnoe View Post
What did you ride prior to the 2010 S-works? Was the difference dramatic? Subtle?
Honestly, I can not tell a difference between my 10' S-Works Roubaix and my 2009 Roubaix Comp (also carbon fiber, but based on their last generation of Roubaix design.)

Before I bought those Roubaix, i had a CAAD 10, CAAD 9, Giant Defy Composite and a Giant TCX, the CAAD 10/9/TCX are super stiff, fast, but too harsh on the road, the Defy Composite had a weird geometry and not as smooth as the Roubaix at absorbing road vibrations (However I did ride a 100mile century on the Defy Composite wearing no padded shorts so it's comfortable enough to handle long distance)

Hope it helps.

Last edited by lifanus; 02-10-21 at 10:54 AM.
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Old 02-10-21, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by lifanus View Post
Honestly, I can not tell a difference between my 10' S-Works Roubaix and my 2009 Roubaix Comp (also carbon fiber, but based on their last generation of Roubaix design.)

Before I bought those Roubaix, i had a CAAD 10, CAAD 9, Giant Defy Composite and a Giant TCX, the CAAD 10/9/TCX are super stiff, fast, but too harsh on the road, the Defy Composite had a weird geometry and not as smooth as the Roubaix at absorbing road vibrations (However I did ride a 100mile century on the Defy Composite wearing no padded shorts so it's comfortable enough to handle long distance)

Hope it helps.
That does help a lot. I am riding a 2009 Roubaix Comp with very nice Dura Ace wheels. I have been thinking of upgrading to a 2016 or later S-works Roubaix. I figured that going from 9r to 11r frame and from 105 to Dura-Ace components would make a difference in the speed-to-effort ratio. I also desire Di2 shifting and disk brakes, but that is more icing on the cake.
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Old 02-10-21, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by patnoe View Post
That does help a lot. I am riding a 2009 Roubaix Comp with very nice Dura Ace wheels. I have been thinking of upgrading to a 2016 or later S-works Roubaix. I figured that going from 9r to 11r frame and from 105 to Dura-Ace components would make a difference in the speed-to-effort ratio. I also desire Di2 shifting and disk brakes, but that is more icing on the cake.
Incorrect

Di2 and disc won't make you any faster, but you'll enjoy the way they work(zero needed adjustments).
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