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Champion SLs are back in stock!

Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Champion SLs are back in stock!

Old 07-16-05, 04:54 PM
  #1  
ehammarlund
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I'm SO wishing I had seen them when i was doing my build... I could have replaced anything I didn't want and come out well ahead. Oh well. how can they sell a 6600 build (yes, not the brakes, i know) with a FSA carbon crank for that?

My friend is about to look into buying a new road bike. Gawd, I wish he knew what size he was. I'd love to send him taht way. I'm almost tempted to pick one up for my wife as an early anniversary present--=does anyone know how often taht deal shows up?

And does anyone know for sure taht this is arebadged fuji team sl, or is it something else?

Hell, i should buy it, strip it, and make a profit:
the bike costs $1100

The wheelset is selling--right now--for over 300 on ebay.
that's $800

The brifters sell for about $250 on ebay. or more.
that's $550

The crankset and BB *have* to be worth at least $150.
that's $400

The bars, stem, and seatpost are easily sellable for $100 combined
that's $300

the brakes... well, not so great, $50 for the set, probably.
that's $250

Maybe $50 for the tires and seat together....
that's $200

About $100 for the FD and RD as a set
that's $100

.... and you can't tell me that the frame won't sell for at least $110.
Voila! Profit! Or a $100 frame.

Last edited by ehammarlund; 07-16-05 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 07-16-05, 05:07 PM
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Ya sure...if that makes you feel better...
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Old 07-16-05, 05:42 PM
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The brakes can be had new for $43 at aebike. That's the one really cheap part on the bike. At any rate, it's a fantastic deal to say the least. I kinda wish I'd known about it when I was doing my build as well. However, I'm pretty happy with what I've got so I'm not too upset.
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Old 07-16-05, 05:47 PM
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I'm trippin on this bike too. Sooooo close to just gettin the cc out and doing it. Gotta get the wife on board.
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Old 07-16-05, 05:51 PM
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Have you ever sold anything on eBay? There's a cost for listing and a % is taken from every sale. Figure that into your eq and get back to us.
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Old 07-16-05, 05:58 PM
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screw selling it... it's a great bike to ride the snot out of...
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Old 07-16-05, 06:18 PM
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Sure, I've sold things, but the cost is pretty minimal. And you can always wrap it into the shipping/handling; lots of people charge more for shipping than it actually costs, and it doesn't hurt sales much.

that said, i'm not planning to buy and resell it, I was only using that example to support my 'how the hell do they do it?' question. I wonder if (using that example) the $1895 team ls is a better buy? The extra $800 gets you full DA, including brakes this time and nicer wheels, plus a better frame. Whatever... just dreaming Though since when did bikesdirect start carrying carbon frame bikes? I didn't see them last week.
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Old 07-16-05, 07:00 PM
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You are forgetting the crank is not as good as ultegra 6600, neither are the brakes. The wheels are also not super-great, but very light. I heard mighty bad stuff about the bottom bracket, which is an american classic bottom bracket (they leave that part out).

Also the frame is NOT a fuji team sl frame...who knows how good it is.

But for $1095 and free shipping and no tax it would still be a good value I think.

Oh, and with a 2.7 pound frame, no way in hell that thing weighs 15.2 lbs. A giant tcr composite 2 has full ultegra, a 2.1 lb frame and total weighs 17.6 lbs. The wheels are a little heavier. So if you do the math...

The components on the tcr will be lighter, so just call it an 'advantage' since it is not a big amount. TCR is .6 lbs in frame. Moto is 1 lb in wheels. That makes the moto approximately .4 lbs lighter...no way IN HELL that weighs 15.2 lbs. The moto would have to save 2 lbs in bar/stem and seatpost/seat compared to the tcr.
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Old 07-16-05, 07:17 PM
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Originally Posted by sparknote_s
You are forgetting the crank is not as good as ultegra 6600, neither are the brakes. The wheels are also not super-great, but very light. I heard mighty bad stuff about the bottom bracket, which is an american classic bottom bracket (they leave that part out).

Also the frame is NOT a fuji team sl frame...who knows how good it is.

But for $1095 and free shipping and no tax it would still be a good value I think.

Oh, and with a 2.7 pound frame, no way in hell that thing weighs 15.2 lbs. A giant tcr composite 2 has full ultegra, a 2.1 lb frame and total weighs 17.6 lbs. The wheels are a little heavier. So if you do the math...

The components on the tcr will be lighter, so just call it an 'advantage' since it is not a big amount. TCR is .6 lbs in frame. Moto is 1 lb in wheels. That makes the moto approximately .4 lbs lighter...no way IN HELL that weighs 15.2 lbs. The moto would have to save 2 lbs in bar/stem and seatpost/seat compared to the tcr.
Spark-
Just wondering who makes the frame then as the ENTIRE bike spec's out to Fuji Team sl.
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Old 07-16-05, 07:20 PM
  #10  
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I could make a wood frame and spec it out with the same components. Does that mean its a fuji?

I will admit it could be true, it is the same frame. But I emailed motobecane and they're response was "it is comarable to the fuji team sl!"

Until I hear somebody from either companies say they are THE SAME I will not believe it.
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Old 07-16-05, 07:22 PM
  #11  
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Originally Posted by daytonian
Spark-
Just wondering who makes the frame then as the ENTIRE bike spec's out to Fuji Team sl.
Motobecane makes a fixed gear bike called the Messenger that has the exact same geometry as a Fuji Track.

That's not proof, but interesting none the less.

This bike looks pretty good. Only thing I'd want to do is swap out the ISIS BB and crank for an ultegra 6600. You could get some $$ for the FSA carbon crank and AC? BB on ebay (assuming it is an AC unit)
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Old 07-16-05, 07:25 PM
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Yes, it appears ISIS is a thing of the past these days...

But it just doesn't make sense how motobecane and fuji make the same exact bike, yet have two different names, as far as I know have always been separate, and one sells it's bike for a hell of a lot more than the other. This should make a bell go off in your head and ask yourself "wtf?"
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Old 07-16-05, 07:37 PM
  #13  
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Originally Posted by sparknote_s
Yes, it appears ISIS is a thing of the past these days...
Both my bikes actually have ISIS, but yeah if I was buying new these days I'd get shimano external bearing cranks because they don't really cost anything more.
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Old 07-17-05, 12:16 AM
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Have you seen any tests that show just how much stiffer the new crank/bbs are? Or is it more weight saving than stiffness?
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Old 07-17-05, 12:21 AM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by sparknote_s
Have you seen any tests that show just how much stiffer the new crank/bbs are? Or is it more weight saving than stiffness?
Actually the ISIS BB system is lighter with a Ti BB (especially with that AC BB).

The main difference with external bearings over ISIS is durability. Bearings can be much bigger when they put them outside.

Not sure there is much difference in stiffness. ISIS axle is pretty thick and that's the problem actually (not enough room for bearings because of this)
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Old 07-17-05, 12:28 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by sparknote_s
But it just doesn't make sense how motobecane and fuji make the same exact bike, yet have two different names, as far as I know have always been separate, and one sells it's bike for a hell of a lot more than the other. This should make a bell go off in your head and ask yourself "wtf?"
Maybe, but Fuji is huge and has been focused on volume for many years. It's not out of the realm that they might have had a few - quite a few actually - frames leftover from '04 that were stripped of paint and wholesaled. Better to get rid of them and make something than to warehouse them and make nothing.

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Old 07-17-05, 11:43 AM
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Yeah, I don't think the selling idea is great (ebay listing fees + paypal fees + your time to list each one and answer a zillion questions, then you'll have at least one bad transaction and have to deal with tracking the package or accepting a return and relisting)..... but I did check with Bikesdirect... the Le Champion SL is the exact same frame as the Fuju Team SL.

They would not confirm what their other frames are identical too, but that one for sure.

Great looking bike, awesome package... wish it all came in a 30 speed.

--Darren
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Old 07-17-05, 12:50 PM
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Well I guess if they say it is then I will believe it...

So has anyone ridden the fuji team sl or motobecane le champion sl? How does it compare in stiffness to other frames (cannondales are the stiffest I've been on)?
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Old 07-17-05, 01:00 PM
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I rode a Team sl last week for a few miles. Mind you I'm on a Fuji Ace now but looking to upgrade. It was freakishly light, stiffer than my ace, yet as or more compliant comfortwise. For the few hills I could find Like terry morse says, it just wants to climb like crazy. Crank the pedal and your moving instantly. My dilemma is if I get the champ sl, will I wish in a month that I had spent 5-600 more and gotten the Fuji (05"s are brushed aluminum with clear coat and real sharp).
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Old 07-17-05, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by sparknote_s
So has anyone ridden the fuji team sl or motobecane le champion sl? How does it compare in stiffness to other frames (cannondales are the stiffest I've been on)?
Who knows? It would be good if we had access to stiffness tests found in the german magazine Tour.

Subjective evaluations are valuable, but there are many variables that influence harshness for example. Wheels and tires are a big modifer.



P.S. This Fuji Team SL has every weight saving trick in the book throw at it. Even the tires Vittoria diamontes are crazy light (180 grams). Then it's got the lightest BB out there in it. The wheels are the lightest (ok, no sapims, but it's really light nontheless). Even has a compact double just so they could save 50-100 grams there.

The Ritchey WCS stem, seatpost, etc are not cheap items either. (generic stems are about the same weight, but that label costs them money)

Last edited by 53-11_alltheway; 07-17-05 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 07-18-05, 03:56 PM
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Are these rebadged Fuji Team SL's?

Probably more accurate to say that these are made by the same factories - it is common for manufacturers to use the same factories and some models overlap between brands. If you look carefully, you'll see more "twins" like the Nemesis and the Fuji Aloha or the Immortal force and the Louis Garneau carbon bike. Many euro bikes like Colnago, orbea and many many others are Taiwan sourced and finished in europe...
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