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A very informative discussion of CF as a bike material.

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

A very informative discussion of CF as a bike material.

Old 02-16-21, 06:23 AM
  #1  
bruce19
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A very informative discussion of CF as a bike material.

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Old 02-16-21, 06:50 AM
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Why this guy again? The only video of his that I've seen is his "analysis" of Froome's comments on disc brakes and that was such a thorough waste of 5 minutes that I have a hard time believing that this 20 minute video is going to be worthwhile. If you're going to post a lengthy video, why not at least kick off the discussion with a TL;DW on what you believe to be the salient points?
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Old 02-16-21, 06:53 AM
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It's not a discussion. It's a video.

Not watching that.
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Old 02-16-21, 06:56 AM
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I watched the first 30 seconds and didn't see any listing of his qualifications as a materials scientist and bike designer.

Not gonna commit any more time than that.
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Old 02-16-21, 07:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I watched the first 30 seconds and didn't see any listing of his qualifications as a materials scientist and bike designer.

Not gonna commit any more time than that.
You can have all the qualifications in the world and still be a muppet.

It's not about credentials it's about the quality of the content. I like Peak Torque he makes great videos and if you want to quibble he responds to comments.
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Old 02-16-21, 07:04 AM
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Hmmm....could someone please post the "Executive Summary?"
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Old 02-16-21, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
You can have all the qualifications in the world and still be a muppet.

It's not about credentials it's about the quality of the content. I like Peak Torque he makes great videos and if you want to quibble he responds to comments.
In my world, expertise still matters -- especially when it comes to highly technical (scientific) topics. I'm not qualified to judge the veracity of this guy's statements (and I'll bet most bf'ers aren't qualified), and so it is all the more important that an analyst's qualifications be vetted...Which is something that we can all do.

I hope people have learned, especially in this past year, to leave science to the scientists. If we start trusting the amateurs, we'll be doing crazy things like injecting bleach.

Last edited by Koyote; 02-16-21 at 07:25 AM.
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Old 02-16-21, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
In my world, expertise still matters -- especially when it comes to highly technical (scientific) topics. I'm not qualified to judge the veracity of this guy's statements (and I'll bet most bf'ers aren't qualified), and so it is all the more important that an analyst's qualifications be vetted...Which is something that we can all do.

I hope people have learned, especially in this past year, to leave science to the scientists. If we start trusting the amateurs, we'll be doing crazy things like injecting bleach.
Well yes if you're going to blindly trust anyone it's better that they should be qualified Science is bigger than scientists and what matters is the evidence and arguments not qualifications. On important issues it's worth digging a bit deeper to understand what the science is really telling us and look a bit past the headlines.

There's nothing in this video that you can't check for yourself. I saw it when it first came out some time ago and IIRC it's about the stiffness of carbon fibre and how that arises from the epoxy and the fibres. He covers layup and mentions how manufacturers exaggerate stiffness.

At no point does he suggest we should inject ourselves with bleach. So that's a good sign.
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Old 02-16-21, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Well yes if you're going to blindly trust anyone it's better that they should be qualified
It's not 'blind trust' to put more stock in the claims of qualified experts when they are talking within their areas of expertise.

By the way: if you go to the video's youtube page, right at the top there are four corrections of instances in which he uses the wrong technical terms. That's not encouraging.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:01 AM
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I listened to it (using Youtube premium and just listen to various cycling videos while driving) and, frankly, meh - the gist of it is that CF isn't as stiff advertising would suggest and advantage over metals can actually be pretty small. I didn't find it particularly interesting, to be honest.

Some of his videos are properly informative and interesting, some aren't. The analysis of what goes on with the new Canyon Aeroad seatposts is interesting to watch, for instance, for a dissection of an engineering ooops.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
By the way: if you go to the video's youtube page, right at the top there are four corrections of instances in which he uses the wrong technical terms. That's not encouraging.
The name of his channel is vaguely technical and, out of his two video thumbnails that I've seen, both have contained images of math/equations. The math in the video that I've watched, however, was pretty simplistic and the conclusion was laughable. I get the impression that he's either trying to fool viewers or that he's successfully fooled himself.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Branko D View Post
I listened to it (using Youtube premium and just listen to various cycling videos while driving) and, frankly, meh - the gist of it is that CF isn't as stiff advertising would suggest and advantage over metals can actually be pretty small. I didn't find it particularly interesting, to be honest.
What's stiffer?
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Old 02-16-21, 08:45 AM
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Oy, eez bri ish. That makes im moa uv an expet then yeu!
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Old 02-16-21, 08:46 AM
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I have no fancy math behind this, but honestly having ridden bikes made of aluminum, steel, titanium, and carbon fiber, I think the truth is all of these are viable frame materials. And I expect ride "feel" depends more on geometry and especially wheels/tires/tire pressure rather than the actual frame material.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I have no fancy math behind this, but honestly having ridden bikes made of aluminum, steel, titanium, and carbon fiber, I think the truth is all of these are viable frame materials.
Too soon to tell. Need more data.
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Old 02-16-21, 08:56 AM
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Is there a materials scientist in the house? I always find critiques of these types of videos to be of higher value when made by someone with a background in the subject. If you have that kind of background I'd welcome your comments. I'm interested in the subject but it is not my area of expertise so I won't be making judgements.

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Old 02-16-21, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
It's not 'blind trust' to put more stock in the claims of qualified experts when they are talking within their areas of expertise.
Yes OK fair enough. But PT guy probably is qualified anyway which kind of turns the argument around

Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
By the way: if you go to the video's youtube page, right at the top there are four corrections of instances in which he uses the wrong technical terms. That's not encouraging.
I'll have a look!
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Old 02-16-21, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Yes OK fair enough. But PT guy probably is qualified anyway which kind of turns the argument around
Maybe he is qualified. I'm just saying that, until that's been demonstrated, I won't put much stock in the video.

I do know that, within my area of expertise, I can talk for far longer than twenty minutes without making a substantive error that requires later correction. But then, I have a bunch of those silly, irrelevant "qualifications."
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Old 02-16-21, 09:32 AM
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Originally Posted by bruce19 View Post
I'm interested in the subject but it is not my area of expertise so I won't be making judgements.
So you'll neither make judgement nor even comment on why you think it's noteworthy? So why post the video? So others can chew on the video and mama bird/baby bird it for you?
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Old 02-16-21, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
So why post the video?
Why not?
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People here don't get it.
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Old 02-16-21, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Velo Vol View Post
Why not?
You must not be a serious cyclist forumite.
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Old 02-16-21, 09:40 AM
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Ha! The scourge of my own field: people who've read all of the literature and done none of the work posing as experts, and the people who worship them.

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Old 02-16-21, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by datlas View Post
I have no fancy math behind this, but honestly having ridden bikes made of aluminum, steel, titanium, and carbon fiber, I think the truth is all of these are viable frame materials. And I expect ride "feel" depends more on geometry and especially wheels/tires/tire pressure rather than the actual frame material.
This. Include saddle, size/weight of rider on the list also.

Last edited by seypat; 02-16-21 at 09:48 AM.
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Old 02-16-21, 09:49 AM
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LOL. Disregard the 30 years or whatever that people have been riding CF. This YouTube video will expose The Truth.


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Old 02-16-21, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
So you'll neither make judgement nor even comment on why you think it's noteworthy? So why post the video? So others can chew on the video and mama bird/baby bird it for you?
I just enjoy drawing out opinionated people of irascible temperament.
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