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Groin pain

Old 02-27-21, 10:08 AM
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Flame73
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Groin pain

Hello,
Lately, I have a kind of a pain in my groin, under my balls. If I could describe the feeling, I would say that I feel like I'm on the saddle, even when I'm not. I'm like feeling the saddle pressure on my grain, all day.
I must say that the saddle is feeling good when I'm riding. And the tilt is OK.
Is that happened to you? And will it pass?
I'm really afraid, I think I also I've lost sensitivity a bit in that area.
Another thing, my balls moved a bit forward, as like when sitting on the saddle. Is it a known issue for this kind of sport?
I'm really depressed and Can't think of stop riding.
I already have an appointment to see a urologist, but I before I go in I want to hear from other cyclists who can relate or have had similar experiences.

Last edited by Flame73; 02-27-21 at 10:35 AM.
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Old 02-27-21, 03:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Flame73 View Post
I already have an appointment to see a urologist, but I before I go in I want to hear from other cyclists who can relate or have had similar experiences.
I can only relate that a urologist was the first doctor that checked my prostate long, long ago. Enjoy!

There have been a few others in the old peoples sub-forum and the fit sub-forum that have recently written about possibly similar issues. In the old peoples sub-forum, don't forget to check the pill's and ill's sub-sub-forum.
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Old 02-28-21, 03:37 PM
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I never had so deep issues, but I felt the effect of a wrong setting of the saddle for around 1 hour with a rent mtb bike. I'd try the following, all of them at once:
- 5 days rest (or better 10?)
- Use a saddle with "nose" curved down and with large cut-off.
- Tilt down the saddle nose, especially if the handlebar is lower than the level of the saddle, or if ridding on drops. I never understood some advises to keep the saddle level (or worse - to tilt the saddle nose up) on a road bike, especially when the handlebar is lower than the saddle. It would mean to support large part of body weight on the groin - which is always a very bad thing.
Tilting down the saddle might reduce some comfort of riding, but adaptation should occur in time, whilst supporting weight on the groin will never result in adaptation, but in bigger or even permanent damage.
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Old 02-28-21, 03:48 PM
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You're right, but the more you tilt the saddle nose down, the more weight will Loaded on hands. But no doubt, my saddle nose was up and That's what caused me groin pain. I hope it's Reversible
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Old 02-28-21, 03:56 PM
  #5  
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
I never had so deep issues, but I felt the effect of a wrong setting of the saddle for around 1 hour with a rent mtb bike. I'd try the following, all of them at once:
- 5 days rest (or better 10?)
- Use a saddle with "nose" curved down and with large cut-off.
- Tilt down the saddle nose, especially if the handlebar is lower than the level of the saddle, or if ridding on drops. I never understood some advises to keep the saddle level (or worse - to tilt the saddle nose up) on a road bike, especially when the handlebar is lower than the saddle. It would mean to support large part of body weight on the groin - which is always a very bad thing.
Tilting down the saddle might reduce some comfort of riding, but adaptation should occur in time, whilst supporting weight on the groin will never result in adaptation, but in bigger or even permanent damage.
That's because it's been the best advice for over a 100 years. The more you drop the nose of the saddle the more your butt 'walks' forward on the saddle and you end up putting even pressure on your soft bits. If the saddle is level or slightly nose up you'll be able to stay on your sit bones much more easily. If sitting on a level saddle and reaching the bars is not comfortable you don't tilt the saddle down, you fix the bar height/reach issue. Talk to ANY experienced, reputable bike fitter and they'll confirm this.
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Old 02-28-21, 03:58 PM
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That's what I said: less comfort. But hands and back have muscles that can adapt (maybe with some specific training for a period, if needed). The groin has not. It is probably temporary most of the time, but it also depends on length of time and hardness of exposure. For sure a visit to the medic is a good idea. Hope that, finally, it is reversible.
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Old 02-28-21, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by cxwrench View Post
you fix the bar height/reach issue. Talk to ANY experienced, reputable bike fitter and they'll confirm this.
That can't be changed much if you want to have a saddle to bar drop, for aerodynamic purposes.
A long time ago I rode a steel bike (incl. races). It had level saddle and the handlebar was around the level of the saddle - that was the habit at that time. And everything worked ok (except for aerodynamics of course).
Now, most road bike producers build their bikes with relative large saddle to bar drop and you can't change it too much, since the fork is already cut to its size. Tilting down your body over the handlebar will obviously increase pressure on perineal area if the saddle continues to be level (or worse - tilted up).

But I'll not argue anybody's advice, everyone has his own experience.

Last edited by Redbullet; 02-28-21 at 04:21 PM.
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Old 02-28-21, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
That can't be changed much if you want to have a saddle to bar drop, for aerodynamic purposes.
A long time ago I rode a steel bike (incl. races). It had level saddle and the handlebar was around the level of the saddle - that was the habit at that time. And everything worked ok (except for aerodynamics of course).
Now, most road bike producers build their bikes with relative large saddle to bar drop and you can't change it too much, since the fork is already cut to its size. Tilting down your body over the handlebar will obviously increase pressure on perineal area if the saddle continues to be level (or worse - tilted up).

But I'll not argue anybody's advice, everyone has his own experience.
Your sit bones and the accompanying structures of your pelvis we lump into the term sit bones aren't just to little protuberances that stick down like two little horns. They are more like rails that curve and they narrow as they go to the front. So as you roll or lean forward, on a decently fitted saddle for you, they don't squish your perineal area even when the saddle is level as mine is.

So if you have to tilt yours, then I'd just say you haven't found the right saddle for you. But if tilting gives you what you want, then that's fine. When I did tilt my saddle down in front, it did contribute to me sliding forward and putting more weight on my hands and wrist to keep me from sliding forward.

But to each their own..... solution.
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Old 03-01-21, 06:13 AM
  #9  
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When I was messing about with saddle height trying to see if it made any difference to power (it didn't), I'd set it up / down and then ride hard for 15-20 minutes to see how I felt. Raising it a centimeter up from my normal position, I could feel discomfort in the groin starting to build up after 20 minutes; higher saddle generally equals higher saddle pressure. The same saddle, I can spend hours on end on it in a trisuit with minimal padding and feel just fine.

I'd revisit basic fit coordinates if I felt groin pain then check if the saddle is wide enough to support the sit bones.

Personally, I'm a fan of short nosed saddles with a cutout but that's more of a personal preference, and I've tried a few longer saddles which were fine as well. As for saddle angle, saddle level was a rule for the longest time and UCI rules tend to shape the way road bikes are made and the way people fit and ride them. That was only dropped a couple of years ago, so I wouldn't put much stock in "saddle level is how it was always done". For me,saddle angled down and short-ish cranks enable me to ride in the drops for as long as I like without being uncomfortable in any way despite a very significant saddle to bar drop (about 12 cm or so). I could live with a level saddle, but this does create more room for my dangly bits.
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Old 03-01-21, 03:09 PM
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I think the concept of “level saddle” is not clearly defined, especially for the modern saddle shapes built during the last 5-10 years. That is because many saddles are far from being plane, so they have no level base to measure the tilting angle. Example below: a road saddle shape preferred by many producers:

1. With below definition of “level saddle”, it is obvious that the saddle has a higher lever around groin area, than the level at the sit bones. I think that many riders would have unacceptable pressure over groin area, especially if the handlebar is lower than the saddle, and despite the cut off and curved down “nose”.


2. With below definition of “level saddle”, the above groin issue should disappear for most riders; further 1-2 degrees “nose down” would be a “safety margin” – which I use to take. But you can see that visually, it looks rather like a “tilted down” than "level" position.

Overall, I think that this shape is good for performance but cannot be very comfortable (even when perineal issue is avoided) because it will always pass a little more pressure on arms and back. But this pressure and the eventual little tendency to move the sit bones forward should be alleviated by bigger pedaling force – which is supposed to be the case for riders who follow a more vigorous training programme – or by a small program of strengthening arms and back.
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Old 03-01-21, 11:08 PM
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IME posts 9 & 10 are correct. When Specialized first developed their Body Geometry saddles, which were supposed to end the possible ED issues among cyclists, they recommended that even with the BG saddles the nose be tilted down 2°-3°. Again, IME there is no "correct" saddle angle because everyone's pelvis and pelvic tilt is a little different. One has to experiment, both with saddle type and model and saddle position, up and down, fore and aft, and tilt. Over the years, I've given 2 boxes full of saddles to charity because one's saddle perfection also changes with age and musculature.
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Old 03-02-21, 06:11 PM
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Flame- how old are you if you don't mind my asking? I am a urologist and a cyclist- if you are under 40 the chance this is a urologic problem instead of a bike fit problem is close to 0, and the urologist will be a waste of time and $$. See a good bike fitter. If you are over 40 then good idea to go get checked out which will unfortunately involve, or should involve, a prostate check digitally and by blood test. If you end up with the diagnosis of a "prostate infection" be very suspicious about taking long term antibiotics, your prostate might be inflamed but not likely infected and some of the antibiotics(cipro and levaquin primarily) can have some nasty side effects in terms of tendon and ligament damage. Best of luck, keep us informed
Oh and btw that's not your groin, thats your taint.
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Old 03-03-21, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by oujeep1 View Post
Flame- how old are you if you don't mind my asking? I am a urologist and a cyclist- if you are under 40 the chance this is a urologic problem instead of a bike fit problem is close to 0, and the urologist will be a waste of time and $$. See a good bike fitter. If you are over 40 then good idea to go get checked out which will unfortunately involve, or should involve, a prostate check digitally and by blood test. If you end up with the diagnosis of a "prostate infection" be very suspicious about taking long term antibiotics, your prostate might be inflamed but not likely infected and some of the antibiotics(cipro and levaquin primarily) can have some nasty side effects in terms of tendon and ligament damage. Best of luck, keep us informed
Oh and btw that's not your groin, thats your taint.
Hello Dr. And thank you for your response. I'm 47 years old. Actually, I saw the urologist's yesterday. He checked my groin area.He Pressed with the finger About specific areas around my testicles, there was no pain, so he told me that he doesn't think it's an urologist issue, maybe something with the bone. I guess he's right, my weight was mostly on the groin bone (I hope I say it right) which was on the saddle. But I'm really not calm with that , because my balls are swallen and the Bottom skin is hard, like a leg hard skin. the area is sometimes heart. I wonder what can I do now.

Last edited by Flame73; 03-03-21 at 08:52 AM.
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Old 03-03-21, 06:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Flame73 View Post
Hello Dr. And thank you for your response. I'm 47 years old. Actually, I saw the urologist's yesterday. He checked my groin area.He Pressed with the finger About specific areas around my testicles, there was no pain, so he told me that he doesn't think it's an urologist issue, maybe something with the bone. I guess he's right, my weight was mostly on the groin bone (I hope I say it right) which was on the saddle. But I'm really not calm with that , because my balls are swallen and the area is sometimes heart. I wonder what can I do now.
Go get a decent bike fit that includes saddle pressure mapping
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Old 03-03-21, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by oujeep1 View Post
Flame- how old are you if you don't mind my asking? I am a urologist and a cyclist- if you are under 40 the chance this is a urologic problem instead of a bike fit problem is close to 0, and the urologist will be a waste of time and $$. See a good bike fitter. If you are over 40 then good idea to go get checked out which will unfortunately involve, or should involve, a prostate check digitally and by blood test. If you end up with the diagnosis of a "prostate infection" be very suspicious about taking long term antibiotics, your prostate might be inflamed but not likely infected and some of the antibiotics(cipro and levaquin primarily) can have some nasty side effects in terms of tendon and ligament damage. Best of luck, keep us informed
Oh and btw that's not your groin, thats your taint.
Ummm, this is going off topic, but can you post a reference about this? I've had serious antibiotics prescribed in the past (though not for groin issuss),and I've had let us say, challenges with respect to tendons that I would otherwise not have connected to the antibiotics. If one finds oneself on these antibiotics, is it advisable to go easy on the bike to prevent injury?
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Old 03-03-21, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Redbullet View Post
I think the concept of “level saddle” is not clearly defined, especially for the modern saddle shapes built during the last 5-10 years. That is because many saddles are far from being plane, so they have no level base to measure the tilting angle. Example below: a road saddle shape preferred by many producers:

1. With below definition of “level saddle”, it is obvious that the saddle has a higher lever around groin area, than the level at the sit bones. I think that many riders would have unacceptable pressure over groin area, especially if the handlebar is lower than the saddle, and despite the cut off and curved down “nose”.


2. With below definition of “level saddle”, the above groin issue should disappear for most riders; further 1-2 degrees “nose down” would be a “safety margin” – which I use to take. But you can see that visually, it looks rather like a “tilted down” than "level" position.

Overall, I think that this shape is good for performance but cannot be very comfortable (even when perineal issue is avoided) because it will always pass a little more pressure on arms and back. But this pressure and the eventual little tendency to move the sit bones forward should be alleviated by bigger pedaling force – which is supposed to be the case for riders who follow a more vigorous training programme – or by a small program of strengthening arms and back.
My saddles (mostly Fizik Alliante VSX or siimilar) aren't quite as curved as this one, but are always pointed down about 1-2° (measured like the top drawing). I always think I must be "doing it wrong" because the lore is that they should be level, but the slight downward tilt is what works for me. I don't find myself sliding forward with this setting - most of my weight is on my "sit bones".

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Old 03-04-21, 06:07 AM
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Just google "cipro tendon damage"-disclaimer you will have to sort through lots of lawyer ads. Now another disclaimer- I have in my practice life prescribed these multiple times without any known problems, but there are multiple reports. The duration of the risk is unknown, how long after you stop taking them does it go away? Best is prevention, don't be afraid to ask if you are prescribed these if there are alternatives. The FDA issued what they call a "black box warning" several years back that quinolone should not be used for treatment of routine urinary tract infections unless there are no other choices, i still see it used some
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