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Garmin lactate threshold

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Garmin lactate threshold

Old 03-05-21, 08:29 AM
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Grouperdawg
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Garmin lactate threshold

Does anyone know how accurate this is or if it is helpful? It has my calculated mine at 171 so Iím wondering if I am doing a long ride or climb I could try to keep my heart rate around 155 ish and know I could sustain that for a while. It also has an ftp calculation too
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Old 03-05-21, 08:42 AM
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Why not just try it? I mean, if you have a power meter, I'd definitely pace off of that rather than HR - there's both lag and drift to contend with if you're going off of HR.

FWIW, their FTP estimate for me seemed to be in the right ballpark. Haven't even looked at the LTHR estimate, to be honest.
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Old 03-05-21, 08:51 AM
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Ok good to know, I do have a power meter on new bike I love it. I just didn’t know anything about LT and was reading about it and seemed that would be good info to know if it’s accurate or something else to look at

With power meter, do you dial into 80% or so of ftp?
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Old 03-05-21, 09:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
With power meter, do you dial into 80% or so of ftp?
It really depends on the desired intensity and expected duration of not only the climb but of the rest of your ride, as well. Your FTP is your hour-ish power, so go from there.

My "climbs" are pretty short, so I usually ride them above FTP, unless I have a long day ahead of me. In flat/rolling terrain, I'll often aim for 90% or so for fast-paced rides of up to 3-4 hours. For endurance rides, I'll start out more conservatively.

Just feel it out - it won't take long.
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Old 03-05-21, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
Ok good to know, I do have a power meter on new bike I love it. I just didn’t know anything about LT and was reading about it and seemed that would be good info to know if it’s accurate or something else to look at

With power meter, do you dial into 80% or so of ftp?
I always try to ride lomg climbs at FTP. Doesn’t always happen depending on what precedes the climb but that’s my goal on anything over 30min.

Last edited by gregf83; 03-06-21 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 03-05-21, 09:53 AM
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Even when they are accurate, your actual ability for any given day might not be what your LTHR or any other number might suggest.
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Old 03-05-21, 02:37 PM
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Mine have always been within 1 bpm for running LTHR. I never tried to figure out what the number is for cycling because power works better for me.
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Old 03-06-21, 07:08 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
It really depends on the desired intensity and expected duration of not only the climb but of the rest of your ride, as well. Your FTP is your hour-ish power, so go from there.

My "climbs" are pretty short, so I usually ride them above FTP, unless I have a long day ahead of me. In flat/rolling terrain, I'll often aim for 90% or so for fast-paced rides of up to 3-4 hours. For endurance rides, I'll start out more conservatively.

Just feel it out - it won't take long.
My normal rides are also short climbs so they are above ftp as well but a few times a year we do these six mountain climbs near by and Iíll have to sustain a constant grade of maybe 4% to 8% then down hill and then repeat it works out to little over a century the hardest thing for someone like me is pacing myself. I also have group rides where Iím up front all day or maybe solo endurance ride and would be nice to know a comfort zone if I donít want to suffer too much that day for what ever reason. I have an idea with watts I guess I just need more time with it
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Old 03-06-21, 07:18 AM
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Originally Posted by gregf83 View Post
I always try to do lomg climbs are meant to be ridden at FTP. Doesnít always happen depending on what precedes the climb but thatís my goal on anything over 30min.
That would wreck me 😆

Iíve only done a few ftp tests on the trainer and even doing the 20 minute test by the end Iím completely spent. Doing an ftp test is not something I look forward to. Iím 50 years old and I do a good bit of riding but my goals are probably less ambitious then most on this forum. I do have friends older then me that race and are competitive but I enjoy what I do as is and while Iíd love to be stronger Iím also happy just maintaining where I am
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Old 03-06-21, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
My normal rides are also short climbs so they are above ftp as well but a few times a year we do these six mountain climbs near by and Iíll have to sustain a constant grade of maybe 4% to 8% then down hill and then repeat it works out to little over a century the hardest thing for someone like me is pacing myself. I also have group rides where Iím up front all day or maybe solo endurance ride and would be nice to know a comfort zone if I donít want to suffer too much that day for what ever reason. I have an idea with watts I guess I just need more time with it
Gotcha.

Yeah, feel it out. It might take a couple tries, but you'll figure out the pacing. On long rides (100+ miles), I like to start out very conservatively, often in the 65-70% region if I don't have a ton of endurance work under my belt for the season. That'll go up as the season and fitness progresses.

The other thing to keep in mind with long rides is that, even if you're looking at average power/intensity, you've only got so many matches to burn, so I try to moderate my high-torque efforts. IOW, even though I have a preference to stand and power over rollers, I'll be mindful that that kind of fatigue piles up on a long ride much more so than spinning, even at (more or less) the same power.
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Old 03-06-21, 08:11 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Gotcha.

Yeah, feel it out. It might take a couple tries, but you'll figure out the pacing. On long rides (100+ miles), I like to start out very conservatively, often in the 65-70% region if I don't have a ton of endurance work under my belt for the season. That'll go up as the season and fitness progresses.

The other thing to keep in mind with long rides is that, even if you're looking at average power/intensity, you've only got so many matches to burn, so I try to moderate my high-torque efforts. IOW, even though I have a preference to stand and power over rollers, I'll be mindful that that kind of fatigue piles up on a long ride much more so than spinning, even at (more or less) the same power.
good stuff
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Old 03-06-21, 08:36 AM
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Keeping below FTP on long climbs is very challenging even with my 36 X 32. Iíll qualify that my long climbs can be steep.
Before power I used HR. Although a lagging indicator it was a good way to keep things in check on days when I wanted to take it easy. Avg HR was a valid tool. In the same way FTP is also the same way of getting there. What I am interested in is seeing how the two compare at 100 miles on a 125 mile 16,000í ride. AVG HR. goes down over time but power is still power.
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Old 03-06-21, 10:40 PM
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Originally Posted by waters60 View Post
Keeping below FTP on long climbs is very challenging even with my 36 X 32. Iíll qualify that my long climbs can be steep.
Before power I used HR. Although a lagging indicator it was a good way to keep things in check on days when I wanted to take it easy. Avg HR was a valid tool. In the same way FTP is also the same way of getting there. What I am interested in is seeing how the two compare at 100 miles on a 125 mile 16,000í ride. AVG HR. goes down over time but power is still power.
Yeah thatís a really good point, and Iím running a 28 in the back cassette thereís no way when it gets steep for me to be below ftp, itís too low 😆
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Old 03-07-21, 11:28 AM
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Years ago, I liked using heart rate to pace up very long climbs. I just did it by experience, seeing what heart rate I could maintain. It was helpful keep from going too hard at the bottom of the climb.

Power meters work even better.
Check out your power curve on Garmin Connect --> Reports --> Cycling -->Power Curve.
Better: on Strava, see the Power Curve in the left sidebar on one of your rides. You can hover over the chart to see more detail, and change the date range for the "best effort" line. This is more useful than the Garmin display.
This examines all time periods from 1 second up to the length of your ride, and picks out the highest watts within the ride for every amount of time. So you can see your current and best efforts for short intense efforts, or for 10 minute climbs. I had an approximate wattage goal on a steep 5 to 6 minute climb, and it worked very well. I was able to go a bit harder near the top -- nice!

I like loading my rides into the free Golden Cheetah. It's kind of a big learning curve, but just using the basic charts and default stats isn't hard. It has a ton of configs that can be changed, if you are interested. There's some youtube videos that help.
It's CP Chart is the power curve. I can hover over the chart and see when the best efforts occurred. And see selected sections of the current ride on the chart, too.
It's interesting to click the created ride intervals of best 1 minute, 5 minute, etc power, and show the route map to see where those efforts happened.

Last edited by rm -rf; 03-07-21 at 11:35 AM.
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Old 03-07-21, 05:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
My normal rides are also short climbs so they are above ftp as well but a few times a year we do these six mountain climbs near by and Iíll have to sustain a constant grade of maybe 4% to 8% then down hill and then repeat it works out to little over a century the hardest thing for someone like me is pacing myself. I also have group rides where Iím up front all day or maybe solo endurance ride and would be nice to know a comfort zone if I donít want to suffer too much that day for what ever reason. I have an idea with watts I guess I just need more time with it
I find (for me) sticking to HR is a much easier way of setting my pace for long rides. My aerobic magic number is 155. If I stay below that, I can ride 12+ hours

As soon as I let myself go anaerobic I start burning too hot and it limits my ability to sustain a full day's riding

I find that my energy requirements to produce power on different terrains / temperatures / wind conditions varies greatly and isn't really a reliable method
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Old 03-07-21, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post
Years ago, I liked using heart rate to pace up very long climbs. I just did it by experience, seeing what heart rate I could maintain. It was helpful keep from going too hard at the bottom of the climb.

Power meters work even better.
Check out your power curve on Garmin Connect --> Reports --> Cycling -->Power Curve.
Better: on Strava, see the Power Curve in the left sidebar on one of your rides. You can hover over the chart to see more detail, and change the date range for the "best effort" line. This is more useful than the Garmin display.
This examines all time periods from 1 second up to the length of your ride, and picks out the highest watts within the ride for every amount of time. So you can see your current and best efforts for short intense efforts, or for 10 minute climbs. I had an approximate wattage goal on a steep 5 to 6 minute climb, and it worked very well. I was able to go a bit harder near the top -- nice!

I like loading my rides into the free Golden Cheetah. It's kind of a big learning curve, but just using the basic charts and default stats isn't hard. It has a ton of configs that can be changed, if you are interested. There's some youtube videos that help.
It's CP Chart is the power curve. I can hover over the chart and see when the best efforts occurred. And see selected sections of the current ride on the chart, too.
It's interesting to click the created ride intervals of best 1 minute, 5 minute, etc power, and show the route map to see where those efforts happened.
Thats pretty cool on strava , I went in and looked at that very interesting
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Old 03-07-21, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
I find (for me) sticking to HR is a much easier way of setting my pace for long rides. My aerobic magic number is 155. If I stay below that, I can ride 12+ hours

As soon as I let myself go anaerobic I start burning too hot and it limits my ability to sustain a full day's riding

I find that my energy requirements to produce power on different terrains / temperatures / wind conditions varies greatly and isn't really a reliable method
Any chance Garmin gave you a lactate number , assume that it would be higher but just curious. I would guess 155 is a number I could go all day as well ; 165 is a number I can stay for hrs but working. My max heart rate is 190 ish but I donít go much over 185 anymore unless itís hot and really working
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Old 03-08-21, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Grouperdawg View Post
Any chance Garmin gave you a lactate number , assume that it would be higher but just curious. I would guess 155 is a number I could go all day as well ; 165 is a number I can stay for hrs but working. My max heart rate is 190 ish but I donít go much over 185 anymore unless itís hot and really working
oh i didn't realize it was a lactic acid threshold. yeah it would be higher. Anaerobic threshold (155 for me) just means I'm using carbs in addition to fat, for the ATP production cycle. Which means I'm burning hotter, and need to be taking in more carbs and watching bonk-levels more closely. Lactic acid is the result of anaerobic ATP production, but where your threshold lies is very individual. I know you can do lab-based lactic threshold testing but I don't think any estimating from Garmin will be really useful.

I have no idea where to find such a number in my garmin stuff anyways. Sorry!
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Old 03-08-21, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
oh i didn't realize it was a lactic acid threshold. yeah it would be higher. Anaerobic threshold (155 for me) just means I'm using carbs in addition to fat, for the ATP production cycle. Which means I'm burning hotter, and need to be taking in more carbs and watching bonk-levels more closely. Lactic acid is the result of anaerobic ATP production, but where your threshold lies is very individual. I know you can do lab-based lactic threshold testing but I don't think any estimating from Garmin will be really useful.

I have no idea where to find such a number in my garmin stuff anyways. Sorry!
Does this mean that heart rate threshold is the same as lactic acid threshold?
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Old 03-08-21, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
oh i didn't realize it was a lactic acid threshold. yeah it would be higher. Anaerobic threshold (155 for me) just means I'm using carbs in addition to fat, for the ATP production cycle. Which means I'm burning hotter, and need to be taking in more carbs and watching bonk-levels more closely. Lactic acid is the result of anaerobic ATP production, but where your threshold lies is very individual. I know you can do lab-based lactic threshold testing but I don't think any estimating from Garmin will be really useful.
The body always metabolizes carbohydrates along with fats. Lactic acid does not exist in the body. Lactate is produced during the first steps of aerobic metabolism, not only during "anaerobic."
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Old 03-08-21, 12:25 PM
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The best indicator of performance is performance itself. Not calculations. If you truly need to know what you can do for an amount of time, do it. If you don't need to know that value, don't do it.

Most folks don't do training necessitating knowing their hour long power.

Also, WRT comparing to others, FTP is not a good gauge unless you're a triathlete or time triallist. Otherwise, you almost never race or ride purely at ftp. A better gauge for many people would likely be 5min or 8min power. From which you can probably choose a popular local segment with lots of strong boy and girl results and give it a try.

IMO. Therefore, ignore the Garmin and you do you and do what you need to hit the intervals or goals you have. Not the seemingly random measuring stick of "ftp".
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Old 03-10-21, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
The body always metabolizes carbohydrates along with fats. Lactic acid does not exist in the body. Lactate is produced during the first steps of aerobic metabolism, not only during "anaerobic."
Mmmmmmm I beg to differ.

Lipolysis can only occur under aerobic conditions; and it can occur strictly without any carbs.
I've done many, many long rides fasted with no sugar or exogenous carbs. Purely fasted or with fat and salt supplementation

Glycolysis can occur under aerobic or anaerobic conditions.
Aerobically, you will have no lactate production. Anaerobically, the pyruvic acid gets converted to lactate due to the lack of oxygen present during the reaction.
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