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Tubeless rescued by a plug

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Tubeless rescued by a plug

Old 03-28-21, 12:50 PM
  #1  
Zaskar
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Tubeless rescued by a plug

I've posted before about these wheels - Cannondale Hollogram - the extreme difficulty to mount/dismount tires. I got all the expected tips, e.g. pinch all the way around, too much tape, start at the valve, start opposite the valve... I've had two pro mechanics attempt the mount/dismount. Both went something like "Damn. This is reaaaaaallll... grrrr... ughhhh..... llly tight" and resorted to using a bead jack. So yeah... I need to ditch the wheels.

Yesterday, 20 miles from home, I got a puncture that wouldn't seal - my bike, back and the rider behind me got sprayed with Stans. Holding the wheel with the hole at the 6:00 position almost worked - leak/spray stopped, held air... for about 1/2 mile.

I was debating next steps: Uber, calling home for a ride... and attempting to tube it - when a club mate pulled out a plug kit and said "one more option".

Plugging the tire was so damn simple. It took about 3 min and sealed completely. I didn't have to enlarge the hole in the tire, so no loss there if the hole's too big to be booted.

Definitely adding a plug kit to the pouches that go with all my tubeless bikes.

(I did slice off most of the excess after taking that pic)

Last edited by Zaskar; 03-28-21 at 12:53 PM.
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Old 03-28-21, 05:22 PM
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Good stuff - they should definitely be in every tubeless users flat kit. That said, keep an eye on it - I've found that, with my sealant (Orange Seal), if the cut is big enough to need a bacon strip, it's also big enough for the bacon strip to eventually work its way out because of the air pressure in road tires. One of the things that I've done to help delay this is to tie a knot in the middle of the strip and shove that inside the tire casing.
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Old 03-29-21, 07:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Good stuff - they should definitely be in every tubeless users flat kit. That said, keep an eye on it - I've found that, with my sealant (Orange Seal), if the cut is big enough to need a bacon strip, it's also big enough for the bacon strip to eventually work its way out because of the air pressure in road tires. One of the things that I've done to help delay this is to tie a knot in the middle of the strip and shove that inside the tire casing.
Ooh, that’s smart! Thanks for the tip! Stan’s Dart tool is supposed to address that same concern.

I’ve never used a plug, although there were two Pro One episodes— I see the OP was a Pro One, too— where I could have used one. One of those times I limped home with the sealant breaking free every couple miles and pumping after letting it sit cut-at-the-bottom, but the other was an Uber call when I couldn’t wrestle the tire off the rim because I’d forgotten my levers.

Do you have any thoughts on the Dart versus your knot technique? I reckon I should heed the warning and buy some kind of plug kit today.
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Old 03-29-21, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
Do you have any thoughts on the Dart versus your knot technique? I reckon I should heed the warning and buy some kind of plug kit today.
No, the Darts look interesting, but I've only seen them online - I'd like to see/touch them in person before buying; I'm not clear on how bulky the fronds (for lack of a better term) are and whether or not I'd be comfortable with using them on skinny tires.
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Old 03-29-21, 08:45 AM
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I'd mostly considered the plug as a last resort - that the tire would be tossed when I got home. My plan is to pull the tire off the wheel (using a tree as an anchor and the winch on my truck to pull ;-) ) and then inspect the tire. If, after slicing the plug off (inside and out), the hole looks "bootable", I may keep it around... maybe.
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Old 03-29-21, 10:46 AM
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You know what I'm going to say.... "You know what also takes about 3 minutes and leaves you with the peace of mind that it will hold? An innertube"

Otherwise sure these seem like solutions that can help. Bravo.
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Old 03-29-21, 12:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
I'd mostly considered the plug as a last resort - that the tire would be tossed when I got home. My plan is to pull the tire off the wheel (using a tree as an anchor and the winch on my truck to pull ;-) ) and then inspect the tire. If, after slicing the plug off (inside and out), the hole looks "bootable", I may keep it around... maybe.
The neat thing about the Dart is that Stan’s say it is a permanent repair.
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Old 03-29-21, 01:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
You know what I'm going to say.... "You know what also takes about 3 minutes and leaves you with the peace of mind that it will hold? An innertube"

Otherwise sure these seem like solutions that can help. Bravo.
You should do a challenge video— tube change vs. plug— and showcase ur skillz.
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Old 03-29-21, 01:31 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
You should do a challenge video— tube change vs. plug— and showcase ur skillz.
Get some of the bar end plugs with insertion tools, threaded and ready to go, and he's toast.

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Old 03-29-21, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
You know what I'm going to say.... "You know what also takes about 3 minutes and leaves you with the peace of mind that it will hold? An innertube"

Otherwise sure these seem like solutions that can help. Bravo.
I'm by no means a tubeless diehard for road bikes. I won't ride gravel or mtn bikes with tubes, but for the road, I'm kinda neutral. I went tubeless with these wheels because I knew a roadside tube swap would be brutal, and the tubeless route just reduced the odds of a flat. That theory held... for about three years - first flat with the tubeless.
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Old 03-29-21, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
You should do a challenge video— tube change vs. plug— and showcase ur skillz.
I have never worked with the plugs so I can't really comment but honestly I can change a tube in under 3 minutes. Had to do it on my tubeless setup the first ride out this year as the sealant had dried up and I didn't check. I don't ever foresee a point where I wouldn't be riding without a tube ever. Even if the tire is pretty shredded I can get a boot in there and use a tube to get home.

Who knows. Maybe I'll change my mind someday but every time I see a thread about plugs there's always some sort of mixed experiences. I know a tube works, is cheap and can be reused.
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Old 03-31-21, 11:07 AM
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One tip: keep the Dart/pulg in your jersey pocket. The last thing you want is to be fumbling around in a saddlebag while sealant is spraying everywhere and you're losing pressure.

I ride with a Stan's Dart in my pocket. I've (knock wood) never had to use it so I can't comment on its effectiveness. I also ride with a regular ol' tube, Co2, levers etc in the saddlebag. I include a minipump on longer gravel rides.
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Old 03-31-21, 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001 View Post
I have never worked with the plugs so I can't really comment but honestly I can change a tube in under 3 minutes. Had to do it on my tubeless setup the first ride out this year as the sealant had dried up and I didn't check. I don't ever foresee a point where I wouldn't be riding without a tube ever. Even if the tire is pretty shredded I can get a boot in there and use a tube to get home.

Who knows. Maybe I'll change my mind someday but every time I see a thread about plugs there's always some sort of mixed experiences. I know a tube works, is cheap and can be reused.
I agree. Tried tubeless and they were such a PITA I went back to the simplicity of tubes. I know, the "anti tubers" will let me know how wrong I am, but whatever. We all use what we like.
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Old 03-31-21, 07:33 PM
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I have used and always ride with a DynaPlug Racer system used twice over the years works great. Was on a bike tour in Vietnam a few years ago and got a puncture to big for sealant alone. Jabbed the pug in added a bit of air and all was good for the remainder of the life of that tire. Saved me an roadside repair with a filthy bike covered with who knows what as well a removing bags.
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Old 03-31-21, 08:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
One tip: keep the Dart/pulg in your jersey pocket. The last thing you want is to be fumbling around in a saddlebag while sealant is spraying everywhere and you're losing pressure.

I ride with a Stan's Dart in my pocket. I've (knock wood) never had to use it so I can't comment on its effectiveness. I also ride with a regular ol' tube, Co2, levers etc in the saddlebag. I include a minipump on longer gravel rides.
Good point. I just got mine and couldn’t decide where to put it because I have 5 bikes on tubeless right, each with their own tool kit, but only one Dart! I keep the non-bike specific stuff in a Silca wallet, but the Dart is too bulky to go in there, so while I think your suggestion is best, I’m also worried about forgetting to bring it! Obviously buying one for each bike would solve things handily, but that’d be quite the investment for me right now, especially for something rather unlikely to be needed.
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Old 03-31-21, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Atlas Shrugged View Post
I have used and always ride with a DynaPlug Racer system used twice over the years works great. Was on a bike tour in Vietnam a few years ago and got a puncture to big for sealant alone. Jabbed the pug in added a bit of air and all was good for the remainder of the life of that tire. Saved me an roadside repair with a filthy bike covered with who knows what as well a removing bags.
Oh man, I forgot about that one, but it looks trim enough that I could fit that in my Silca wallet and solve the issue of having to remember to grab the Dart for the jersey pocket! I’ll probably throw down for one of those. And the purple is trick.
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Old 03-31-21, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
I've posted before about these wheels - Cannondale Hollogram - the extreme difficulty to mount/dismount tires. I got all the expected tips, e.g. pinch all the way around, too much tape, start at the valve, start opposite the valve... I've had two pro mechanics attempt the mount/dismount. Both went something like "Damn. This is reaaaaaallll... grrrr... ughhhh..... llly tight" and resorted to using a bead jack. So yeah... I need to ditch the wheels.

Yesterday, 20 miles from home, I got a puncture that wouldn't seal - my bike, back and the rider behind me got sprayed with Stans. Holding the wheel with the hole at the 6:00 position almost worked - leak/spray stopped, held air... for about 1/2 mile.

I was debating next steps: Uber, calling home for a ride... and attempting to tube it - when a club mate pulled out a plug kit and said "one more option".

Plugging the tire was so damn simple. It took about 3 min and sealed completely. I didn't have to enlarge the hole in the tire, so no loss there if the hole's too big to be booted.

Definitely adding a plug kit to the pouches that go with all my tubeless bikes.
What is your tire width and normal air pressure?
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Old 04-01-21, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
What is your tire width and normal air pressure?
25mm at 90-93 psi. I weigh 178 lbs.
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Old 04-01-21, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Zaskar View Post
25mm at 90-93 psi. I weigh 178 lbs.
90PSI seems high for a TL 25mm tire. I weight 185lbs and run 85 rear and 80 front and I am pretty sure I could run 80 and 75.

It's nice to see that a plug worked! Last time I had a flat, 3 LBSs told me a TL tire could not be repaired at all. This is BS. I am sure a patch properly glued from the inside could do the job if the slash is too big for the sealant to do its job.
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Old 04-01-21, 06:56 AM
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Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
I am sure a patch properly glued from the inside could do the job if the slash is too big for the sealant to do its job.
I have done exactly that. Twice.
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Old 04-01-21, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
The neat thing about the Dart is that Stan’s say it is a permanent repair.
I will just pass on someone else's experience, but a coworker has been using darts on his commuter for a year. three plugged holes over a year using darts. finally broke down tires for sealant and it was all gone the darts had poked his tape(three little holes) and the sealant had filled his rim. He broke the the tires down because he was seeing sealant at all the nipples and it was time anyway. None of this mattered to him the dart is such a fast repair he could care less about tape and sealant loss down the road.

So I guess IMO its a semi permanent repair, definitely something that needs to be monitored or at least aware of.
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Old 04-01-21, 07:53 AM
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Try the pressure calculator at zipp.com and be sure that your pump gauge is accurate. I replaced my very old gage with something much larger and easier to read, with a more appropriate range. At 140 pounds or less, I use 62/64 in my 28mm michelin tubeless.

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0087UYDPS...v_ov_lig_dp_it

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Old 04-01-21, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by sloppy12 View Post
I will just pass on someone else's experience, but a coworker has been using darts on his commuter for a year. three plugged holes over a year using darts. finally broke down tires for sealant and it was all gone the darts had poked his tape(three little holes) and the sealant had filled his rim. He broke the the tires down because he was seeing sealant at all the nipples and it was time anyway. None of this mattered to him the dart is such a fast repair he could care less about tape and sealant loss down the road.

So I guess IMO its a semi permanent repair, definitely something that needs to be monitored or at least aware of.
To be clear, since you’re using lower-case “dart” rather than the capitalized brand name, are you indeed talking about the Stan’s Dart plugs?

Of course, to even imagine that happening, the tire would have to be ridden on totally flat, which is crazy enough to discount the story, but even suspending doubt for that, it seems unlikely that a Dart plug tip is long enough to reach the rim tape. I mean, the plug tip does not seem as long as even the G Height (i.e. shelf to top of hook), and then to add in the thicknesses of the tread and collapsed sidewall makes it even a longer span. Then you have to imagine the nylon Dart plug tip is hard and sharp enough to pierce the tape on the rim bed.

I suppose it *could* happen to have a catastrophic tubeless blowout which goes flat before you can stop the bike and that a previously installed Dart plug could be pressed far enough into the rim, perhaps by a rock or some perfectly uneven surface, and puncture the tape, but that all seems, honestly, extremely unlikely... and then to happen 3 times? Man, I have a hard time believing that.
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Old 04-01-21, 08:31 AM
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Oh, wait...damn, it’s April Fools Day! You got me, sloppy12 ! Haha!
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Old 04-01-21, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by chaadster View Post
To be clear, since you’re using lower-case “dart” rather than the capitalized brand name, are you indeed talking about the Stan’s Dart plugs?

Of course, to even imagine that happening, the tire would have to be ridden on totally flat, which is crazy enough to discount the story, but even suspending doubt for that, it seems unlikely that a Dart plug tip is long enough to reach the rim tape. I mean, the plug tip does not seem as long as even the G Height (i.e. shelf to top of hook), and then to add in the thicknesses of the tread and collapsed sidewall makes it even a longer span. Then you have to imagine the nylon Dart plug tip is hard and sharp enough to pierce the tape on the rim bed.

I suppose it *could* happen to have a catastrophic tubeless blowout which goes flat before you can stop the bike and that a previously installed Dart plug could be pressed far enough into the rim, perhaps by a rock or some perfectly uneven surface, and puncture the tape, but that all seems, honestly, extremely unlikely... and then to happen 3 times? Man, I have a hard time believing that.
What he said was he found three holes poked in his rim tape. and he had three Darts in his tire that lined up with the holes. I kinda assume all of the holes happened on one flat not at three separate times.

I really don't care what you discount.
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