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Wider tires

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Wider tires

Old 04-04-21, 09:51 AM
  #76  
DangerousDanR
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I haven't ridden anything wider than 25mm on my road bikes, but I can state for a fact that if I put wider tires on either of them the rolling resistance would be much higher...because they would foul the brake calipers.
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Old 04-04-21, 09:56 AM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I have, and it appears that in quite a few cases, like me, the indoor values are higher. My point all along has been that a person's ability doesn't change from indoor to outdoor. In some cases, like when I move indoors in the cold weather and shed all that winter gear (something I don't do any more...) my numbers went up. But really, how much difference is there?

Now can we get back to tires?
I thought you said that you didnít have a power meter on your outside bike? What are you using to measure power outside?
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Old 04-04-21, 10:07 AM
  #78  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
I thought you said that you didnít have a power meter on your outside bike? What are you using to measure power outside?
I don't any more. I did a while back but really don't need it. I was comparing the outside results to a Tacx Neo and while there were differences, they were minimal (just a few watts).

If you've done this type of comparison, and simply moved from a trainer to the road at the same elevation, etc, what was your difference?
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Old 04-04-21, 10:31 AM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I don't any more. I did a while back but really don't need it. I was comparing the outside results to a Tacx Neo and while there were differences, they were minimal (just a few watts).

If you've done this type of comparison, and simply moved from a trainer to the road at the same elevation, etc, what was your difference?
Mine was different. My indoor was higher than my road. My track was the highest of all. I think my outdoor was lower due to it being difficult to find a course free of obstruction. I have always found it easier to produce higher Watts on the track. I used an 8 minute test back then. My view of FTP training has changed a bit. I use FTP when doing things like sweet spot and aerobic training, but for VO2 intensity, i just put my head down and go with the goal of going hard all they way though till the end.
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Old 04-04-21, 11:18 AM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Impossible. Wide tires are new.
🤣🤣😂 kind of like bell bottom pants
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Old 04-04-21, 11:27 AM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
The roads in the Lower Mainland are among the best on the planet. No frost heaves or springtime gravel swales. No major road damage due to snowplows.

You should be able to ride 23mm tires inflated to 100psi everywhere, including the extensive gravel dike system in Pitt Meadows, PoCo and Maple Ridge. Hell, I've even ridden up and down the Coquitlam Crunch on a road bike with 23mm tires.

The advantage of narrower tires is that you can inflate them to high pressures, resulting in much lower rolling resistance. Not that rolling resistance is that important in terms of overall performance; weight is the key metric, as the gaps always appear during hard accelerations out of corners and during stiff climbs. Narrower rims and tires are also more aero.
I'm not sure Id go that far (ever ridden in Spain? Now thats some smooth tarmac), but they're not bad. The worst thing is loose gravel on the side of the road.
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Old 04-04-21, 02:14 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
Impossible. Wide tires are new.
This is the road bike forum so I should have specified that I had a Bianchi Boardwalk hybrid I bought circa 1990 that I'm sure had 32mm tires.

​​​​​​Before that was some Schwinn and I have no idea what size tires it had. My first modern road bike was a Trek Domane and most of those come standard with 32mm tires.

Also, to keep the off topic discussion going, my power inside is higher than out, though it's getting closer the more I ride outside.
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Old 04-04-21, 02:35 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
I realized I'm probably being a little bit of a dick,
@RChung came up with a clever way to know which of your favorite tires is fastest.
"A little bit"?

You know, although it's faster and easier to do with a power meter, there are ways to measure Crr even without a power meter. That's good because in that case, its accuracy doesn't really matter.
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Old 04-04-21, 02:36 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Dave Mayer View Post
The advantage of narrower tires is that you can inflate them to high pressures, resulting in much lower rolling resistance.
Not always.
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Old 04-04-21, 04:16 PM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by colnago62 View Post
Mine was different. My indoor was higher than my road. My track was the highest of all. I think my outdoor was lower due to it being difficult to find a course free of obstruction. I have always found it easier to produce higher Watts on the track. I used an 8 minute test back then. My view of FTP training has changed a bit. I use FTP when doing things like sweet spot and aerobic training, but for VO2 intensity, i just put my head down and go with the goal of going hard all they way though till the end.
I also wonder if using different power meters creates a little of the difference. Example: pedals vs a trainer. Some smart trainers are pretty bad, but some are really good, like the one I use now. So if the trainer is accurate, and the pedals are, there may be a difference since the pedals do not take into account drivetrain losses.
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Old 04-04-21, 04:49 PM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I also wonder if using different power meters creates a little of the difference. Example: pedals vs a trainer. Some smart trainers are pretty bad, but some are really good, like the one I use now. So if the trainer is accurate, and the pedals are, there may be a difference since the pedals do not take into account drivetrain losses.
Wow! I think you've done it! No one training with power has ever considered variation among devices or drivetrain losses! Congrats on cracking the code!!!

I thought that you said you were done with this, two or three times over?
​​​​​
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Old 04-04-21, 04:52 PM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I also wonder if using different power meters creates a little of the difference. Example: pedals vs a trainer. Some smart trainers are pretty bad, but some are really good, like the one I use now. So if the trainer is accurate, and the pedals are, there may be a difference since the pedals do not take into account drivetrain losses.
I have the same power meter on all my bikes and the trainer is a Hammer H2. I feel like power meter difference might account for a small difference, however the biggest factors are the things that been mentioned in the article and others. I now use a ramp test because I feel like it is easier to get a consistent performance from it.
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Old 04-04-21, 04:53 PM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Wow! I think you've done it! No one training with power has ever considered variation among devices or drivetrain losses! Congrats on cracking the code!!!

I thought that you said you were done with this, two or three times over?
​​​​​
I'm wishing this site had a "block" function. What's your problem?
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Old 04-04-21, 05:03 PM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I'm wishing this site had a "block" function.
Hey look - it's something else that you're wrong about.

Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
What's your problem?
Your flailing is embarrassing and tedious.
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Old 04-04-21, 09:32 PM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Hey look - it's something else that you're wrong about.



Your flailing is embarrassing and tedious.
Whoa there cowboy. Put a lasso on that.
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Please dont outsmart the censor. That is a very expensive censor and every time one of you guys outsmart it it makes someone at the home office feel bad. We dont wanna do that. So dont cleverly disguise bad words.
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Old 04-04-21, 10:34 PM
  #91  
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Can I delete this thread? You guys are getting monotonous.
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Old 04-05-21, 10:26 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
I'm wishing this site had a "block" function. What's your problem?
​​​​​​There's an ignore feature. I'm not sure where to find it but if you poke around your profile settings you should find it.
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Old 04-05-21, 11:43 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
​​​​​​There's an ignore feature. I'm not sure where to find it but if you poke around your profile settings you should find it.
Yeah, I did add someone to that, and was familiar with it. But I was hoping for a block feature similar to the one FB uses, where we're each totally invisible to each other.

No worries. I''ll find a way to survive.

;-)
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Old 04-05-21, 11:44 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by Doomrider74 View Post
Can I delete this thread? You guys are getting monotonous.
I looked and couldn't find a way to delete it, either. Which is a shame.
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Old 04-05-21, 01:32 PM
  #95  
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I realized I'm probably being a little bit of a dick
Originally Posted by RChung View Post
"A little bit"?
@dmanthree it appears I owe you an apology. I'm sorry for being so sarcastic.
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Old 04-05-21, 03:01 PM
  #96  
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Nah, we're good. It was the other guy who was being a bit much.

Ride safe!
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Old 04-05-21, 03:33 PM
  #97  
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Originally Posted by dmanthree View Post
Nah, we're good. It was the other guy who was being a bit much.

Ride safe!


Sorry, belligerent ignorance doesn't sit well with me. You ask questions, make claims and when you're proven wrong again and again, even by your own links, you just double-down.

To recap:

a) No, you can't conclude that your wider tires were slower based solely on average speed and perceived effort and some loosey goosey power assumptions based on smart trainer rides
b) yes, conditions do affect power output and can do so significantly enough to throw workouts out of whack - https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/a...indoor-riding/
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