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heavyish Carbon wheels

Old 04-01-21, 01:50 PM
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thehammerdog
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heavyish Carbon wheels

i see that many nice new fancy and costly carbon wheels weigh more or similar to nice alloy wheels. why the desire to spend $1k on carbon when alloy is lighter cheaper.
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Old 04-01-21, 01:56 PM
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Old 04-01-21, 02:07 PM
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That's what the owners of modded Honda Civics say about Ferraris.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by mpath
That's what the owners of modded Honda Civics say about Ferraris.
This is where motorsports are different than human-powered sports. In motorsports, fast is expensive on an exponential curve.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i see that many nice new fancy and costly carbon wheels weigh more or similar to nice alloy wheels. why the desire to spend $1k on carbon when alloy is lighter cheaper.
Nice carbon wheels that are heavier than lightweight aluminum often have deeper rim profiles, which can provide aerodynamic advantages.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:19 PM
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Traditionally because it's difficult to make an alloy rim with a deeper profile that is not excessively heavy,

and deeper rims are more aerodynamic and so generally faster.

It's unlikely that you're seeing 40mm or deeper alloy rims (if there is such a thing) that are lighter than CF at the same depth.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:19 PM
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Originally Posted by mpath
That's what the owners of modded Honda Civics say about Ferraris.
Modded Honda Civics neither look fast nor are fast.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
This is where motorsports are different than human-powered sports. In motorsports, fast is expensive on an exponential curve.
So are looks!
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Old 04-01-21, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i see that many nice new fancy and costly carbon wheels weigh more or similar to nice alloy wheels. why the desire to spend $1k on carbon when alloy is lighter cheaper.
My alloy wheels were in fact cheaper, but not lighter. They're 30mm and weigh 1550g, my carbon wheels are 56mm deep and weigh 1460g. Worth it to me.
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Old 04-01-21, 02:33 PM
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As a wheel company - let me tell you....

Aluminum is an amazing rim material and still greatly undervalued. Still performs amazingly well and if you're still running rim brakes then aluminum is really the better option.

We use carbon for rims because of the strength to weight properties of the composite material used. While it can't be used as a blanket statement for all situations the idea that deeper rim sections are more aero holds true more times than not. To produce more aerodynamic wheels we have needed to produce deeper section rims in depth ranges that if made out of aluminum would produce rims that are prohibitively heavier. It's not like a close tradeoff either. On a 50-60mm deep rim it would add pounds to the bike.

So if you want a deep "aero" like wheel then you need carbon or you'll have a couple of boat anchors. Deep carbon wheels can be heavier than well built alloy wheels. I can easily build and sell aluminum wheelsets that will be stiff, durable and light and cost nearly half as much as carbon sets. BUT...carbon can be built into lighter shallow depth wheels that are amazing as well as aero wheels that perform great.

So carbon isn't going away. Yes it is amazing to ride. It's not all hype but whether it's "worth it" is up for each person to decide themselves. For the throngs of enthusiast riders that could quite literally afford to buy whatever they want - carbon is still the choice.
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Old 04-02-21, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer
My alloy wheels were in fact cheaper, but not lighter. They're 30mm and weigh 1550g, my carbon wheels are 56mm deep and weigh 1460g. Worth it to me.
i paid just over ,$200 for 1600gram alloy wheels

what does dub 1500grms cost.
hey if ya got it buy it but expensive for my taste..plus im a fat boy so few grams aint gonna hurt.
i am mostly curious about the why behind need for carbon and the many down sides....cost brittle over similar alloy.
enjoy
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Old 04-02-21, 08:50 AM
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Two words:
Strength
Aerodynamics
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Old 04-02-21, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i paid just over ,$200 for 1600gram alloy wheels

what does dub 1500grms cost.
hey if ya got it buy it but expensive for my taste..plus im a fat boy so few grams aint gonna hurt.
i am mostly curious about the why behind need for carbon and the many down sides....cost brittle over similar alloy.
enjoy
Psimet answered your question pretty clearly, but I suppose it's worth tossing a second line in the water anyways.
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Old 04-02-21, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by msu2001la
Psimet answered your question pretty clearly, but I suppose it's worth tossing a second line in the water anyways.
pretty sure he did not. i appreciate your snarkiness but price is a primary determenent that helps in the selection.
if $ is no object so be it but $ and results usually.
i just read a guy built a 14lb bike for $19k...not sure of that investment either.
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Old 04-02-21, 12:57 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
pretty sure he did not. i appreciate your snarkiness but price is a primary determenent that helps in the selection.
if $ is no object so be it but $ and results usually.
i just read a guy built a 14lb bike for $19k...not sure of that investment either.
I'm pretty sure he did.

Q: why the desire to spend $1k on carbon when alloy is lighter cheaper.

A: Carbon wheels can have much deeper sections which are more aerodynamic and yet still have similar weights as shallow depth alloy wheels.
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Old 04-02-21, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i paid just over ,$200 for 1600gram alloy wheels

what does dub 1500grms cost.
hey if ya got it buy it but expensive for my taste..plus im a fat boy so few grams aint gonna hurt.
i am mostly curious about the why behind need for carbon and the many down sides....cost brittle over similar alloy.
enjoy

Im sure the rims, hubs and spokes on that $200 wheelset are going to hold up well.
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Old 04-02-21, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i just read a guy built a 14lb bike for $19k...not sure of that investment either.
Me, neither!

I built my 14.5 lb bike with powermeter for less than 3k!
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Old 04-02-21, 02:36 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
pretty sure he did not. i appreciate your snarkiness but price is a primary determenent that helps in the selection.
if $ is no object so be it but $ and results usually.
i just read a guy built a 14lb bike for $19k...not sure of that investment either.
If the price is too much for you, don't buy them.
If they won't enhance your riding, don't buy them.
If you don't understand the advantages, don't buy them.

Also...Why do you care how other people spend their money?
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Old 04-02-21, 02:51 PM
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It's a cost/benefit thing IMO. Spend $2,000 on carbon wheels and go 2 minutes faster over 25 miles? Is that important to you? It's not to me but it might be to someone else.
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Old 04-02-21, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by bruce19
It's a cost/benefit thing IMO. Spend $2,000 on carbon wheels and go 2 minutes faster over 25 miles? Is that important to you? It's not to me but it might be to someone else.
It's not just about speed. Ride quality and hot looks are also factors for people.
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Old 04-02-21, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Eric F
If the price is too much for you, don't buy them.
If they won't enhance your riding, don't buy them.
If you don't understand the advantages, don't buy them.

Also...Why do you care how other people spend their money?
anger issues.
missing the entire point
​​​but thanks.
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Old 04-02-21, 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
anger issues.
missing the entire point
​​​but thanks.
I'm sorry to hear you have anger issues. Maybe a bike ride would help with that. Physical exercise can be very therapeutic.

I haven't missed the point at all. You're confused about the value of expensive CF wheels vs. cheap alum wheels. Psimet very thoroughly covered multiple facets of the issue, yet you still seem to be a bit confused. That being the case, maybe such wheels aren't a good choice for you.

I've ridden lots of wheels, from cheap to expensive, in various combinations of rim profiles and materials. I have found that my current preference is for moderately-deep all-CF wheels which are fairly light, but not super-light. I enjoy the aerodynamic advantages of a deep-section rim, but super-light wheels leave things feeling a bit too skittish when I sprint. 20-ish years ago, I had a pair of Mavic Cosmics Carbone that were deep and heavy. They sucked for climbing and punchy accelerations, but once they got spinning, they absolutely flew! My current set of Enve 3.4s are a great all-around design that are an absolute joy for the kind of riding I do now. I appreciate them every time I ride.

All that said, maybe you don't ride the same way I do, and/or your preferences might be different. Maybe the kind of riding you do won't bring out the differences between one type of wheel or another. If that's the case, it would be silly to buy them.
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Old 04-02-21, 05:36 PM
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My 49mm tubulars weigh 1080g; just sayin...
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Still performs amazingly well and if you're still running rim brakes then aluminum is really the better option.
Until I got my Caden set, I'd have agreed, except to point out that one or two mobs have developed some pretty effective carbon brake tracks, ever ridden Mavic's Exalith? But they're so damn noisy.

Yet my Caden rims brake just as well (better than aluminium!) on a smooth brake track - no crazy noise! Seems like a solved problem to me. Not sure how much of it is the pads; if your interest is piqued, it might be worth trying a set on whatever other carbon rims you have... My brake tracks don't look like anything special.

Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i just read a guy built a 14lb bike for $19k...not sure of that investment either.
In terms of weight that's pretty crap bang for buck. If you have time to shop around for used parts, you can build a bike that light for more like $3k.

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Old 04-02-21, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Aluminum is an amazing rim material and still greatly undervalued. Still performs amazingly well and if you're still running rim brakes then aluminum is really the better option.
Exactly. Which is why I am set to miss out on the carbon wheel craze for a while longer yet.
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Old 04-02-21, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by thehammerdog
i paid just over ,$200 for 1600gram alloy wheels

what does dub 1500grms cost.
hey if ya got it buy it but expensive for my taste..plus im a fat boy so few grams aint gonna hurt.
i am mostly curious about the why behind need for carbon and the many down sides....cost brittle over similar alloy.
enjoy
I too am quite chubby and I would be concerned about riding $200 alloy wheels that weigh 1600g.
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