Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Muc-Off Hydrodynamic Lube = lots of gunk on chain?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Muc-Off Hydrodynamic Lube = lots of gunk on chain?

Old 04-13-21, 10:01 PM
  #1  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,559

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 189 Posts
Muc-Off Hydrodynamic Lube = lots of gunk on chain?

So what am I doing wrong here? Mrs. NoWhammies gave me Muc-Off Hydrodynamic lube for Christmas. Once the weather turned for the better and I needed a new chain on my bike, I decided to give the hydrodynamic lube a go. I followed the instructions and thoroughly cleaned my drive train before applying the lube.

Twice now, after applying the lube, giving the chain a wipe down, and letting the lube sit overnight, this is what I'm experiencing at the end of my ride.




So what am I doing wrong? Am I applying too much lube? Based on the videos I've watch and instructions I've read, I think I am applying the correct amount. But wow. The guck at the end of the ride. The teeth of the cassette are equally gummed up.

Thanks for your insights/experience.
NoWhammies is offline  
Old 04-13-21, 10:25 PM
  #2  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,375

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Define "thoroughly cleaned". You might be surprised by what a real thorough cleaning entails.
surak is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 06:29 AM
  #3  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 34,064

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16292 Post(s)
Liked 5,015 Times in 2,627 Posts
Ick.

I can't help you with your problem, other than to echo surak in that you might be underestimating how thoroughly you need to clean (I just looked at the muc-off instructions online and they're not too detailed, but "de-grease" = a fair amount of work for a chain).

I do have to wonder, though - if you're going to go through the trouble of completely de-greasing your chain/drivetrain, why not just wax at that point? That's really 95% of the battle and there's exceptionally little maintenance afterwards. Or is this stuff supposed to be dry and clean on a similar level to waxing?
WhyFi is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 06:49 AM
  #4  
Hiro11
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,369

Bikes: To the right: opinions, not facts.

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 627 Post(s)
Liked 266 Times in 145 Posts
Wet lube like this needs to be applied carefully and sparingly. It looks to me like you've used far too much and not wiped off the excess. I would take the chain off and clean it and the drivetrain with a degreaser. Remount the chain and put one small drop on each link, run the chain backwards several times to work the lube into the rollers and then carefully wipe off ALL visible lube off the chain, chainrings and cogs. This should take a few minutes and the chain should not appear to be "oily" when you're done. You'll likely have to wipe the chain down after the first couple of rides as additional lube comes to the surface. After that, the benefits of wet lube start to show: much longer lasting than dry lube, a quieter drivetrain, more rust protection for your chain and much more resistant to washing off in bad conditions. A few years ago, I switched to running wet lube on most of my bikes. It's a bit more initial work but works well if you don't just slop the stuff on.
Hiro11 is offline  
Likes For Hiro11:
Old 04-14-21, 08:10 AM
  #5  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 963

Bikes: TCR Pro 0 / Revolt 2

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 184 Posts
What you see is gunk coming out of the internal part of the chain. It's a mix of the old lube, dirt trapped inside and the new lube. If you want a perfectly clean chain, soak it in fuel overnight, then rince it with WD-40 and then isopropyl alcohol. It should be 100% clean. After letting it dry, you can go ahead and apply your lube.


My experience with Muc-Off has been great so far. However, I switched from the ''regular'' Dry Lube to the C3 ceramic dry lube this year and noticed that the C3 gets the chain gunkier after each rides than the regular one. I'll switch back once my bottle is empty.

Last edited by eduskator; 04-14-21 at 10:28 AM.
eduskator is offline  
Likes For eduskator:
Old 04-14-21, 08:19 AM
  #6  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,559

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Ick.
I can't help you with your problem, other than to echo surak in that you might be underestimating how thoroughly you need to clean (I just looked at the muc-off instructions online and they're not too detailed, but "de-grease" = a fair amount of work for a chain).
I do have to wonder, though - if you're going to go through the trouble of completely de-greasing your chain/drivetrain, why not just wax at that point? That's really 95% of the battle and there's exceptionally little maintenance afterwards. Or is this stuff supposed to be dry and clean on a similar level to waxing?
Ick indeed. I gave the chain a wipe down when I arrived home and that got most of the crud off. But the cassette still needs a good cleaning.
Regarding the wax comment, I think the hydrodynamic is supposed to be dry and clean, similar to wax. I wouldn't know though since both times I've done an application and gone for a ride I've ended up with the gunk

Originally Posted by Hiro11 View Post
Wet lube like this needs to be applied carefully and sparingly. It looks to me like you've used far too much and not wiped off the excess. I would take the chain off and clean it and the drivetrain with a degreaser. Remount the chain and put one small drop on each link, run the chain backwards several times to work the lube into the rollers and then carefully wipe off ALL visible lube off the chain, chainrings and cogs. This should take a few minutes and the chain should not appear to be "oily" when you're done. You'll likely have to wipe the chain down after the first couple of rides as additional lube comes to the surface. After that, the benefits of wet lube start to show: much longer lasting than dry lube, a quieter drivetrain, more rust protection for your chain and much more resistant to washing off in bad conditions. A few years ago, I switched to running wet lube on most of my bikes. It's a bit more initial work but works well if you don't just slop the stuff on.
This ^^ is good advice. Thank you. I did not do what you have suggested above. I likely did apply too much - although I thought I applied what was suggested in the video/by the manufacturer - but that does explain why the chain looks like it does. Also, I did not spin the chain backwards after applying the lube. I applied the lube one link at a time and then just let it sit there. I did not cycle it though several times and I likely did not wipe off enough lube. I did a quick spin of the chain through a rag and left it at that. I am going to go for a ride this afternoon, so I'll be sure to give the lube/chain a wipe down before heading out.

What wet lube did you switch to?

Originally Posted by surak View Post
Define "thoroughly cleaned". You might be surprised by what a real thorough cleaning entails.
Took cogs off bike, soaked in degreaser, scrubbed clean, rinsed, hung dry, put cogs back on bike
Degreased chain with degreaser using chain cleaner, cleaned with soap and water, rinse with fresh water, dry
Scrubbed pulleys and front chain rings with degreaser, cleaned with soap and water, rinse with fresh water, dry
Rebuild. Apply lube. Above happens.
NoWhammies is offline  
Likes For NoWhammies:
Old 04-14-21, 08:23 AM
  #7  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 34,064

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16292 Post(s)
Liked 5,015 Times in 2,627 Posts
Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
Degreased chain with degreaser using chain cleaner, cleaned with soap and water, rinse with fresh water, dry
You probably need to go further with your chain prep with submersion and agitation to really get the stuff out of the rollers.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 04-14-21, 08:31 AM
  #8  
MoAlpha
• —
 
MoAlpha's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Land of Pleasant Living
Posts: 8,153

Bikes: Shmikes

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6171 Post(s)
Liked 2,748 Times in 1,514 Posts
Why not just wipe it off and ride the bike?

Originally Posted by eduskator View Post
soak it in fuel
That's about all one needs to see.
MoAlpha is online now  
Likes For MoAlpha:
Old 04-14-21, 08:55 AM
  #9  
rower2cyclist
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2016
Posts: 200

Bikes: Giant TCR Advanced Pro 0 Disc

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 102 Post(s)
Liked 60 Times in 32 Posts
That was my experience with Muc-off as well. But now I read the posts above (very helpful thank you!) and realize I never cleaned my chain and applied the lube properly. Will give it another go.
rower2cyclist is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 12:05 PM
  #10  
SoSmellyAir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 245

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Trek FX 2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 49 Posts
Most manufacturers' instructions say to apply liberally. Rock N Roll's video is the worst; I learned that the hard way!

But the consensus from more experienced cyclists is that a few drops per roller is sufficient. I do that multiple times, with wipe downs in between, first to rinse out, then letting the last application (a single drop per roller) sit overnight before wiping down.
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 12:30 PM
  #11  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,375

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 570 Post(s)
Liked 399 Times in 225 Posts
Yeah, I do suspect it's a combination of not totally clean drivetrain and maybe too much lube leftover. Last year I decided to follow the multiple OMS and denatured alcohol cleaning steps, but still have yet to truly get a clean chain because I took some ill-advised shortcuts in the process like no overnight soaking.

The experts say it's easier to start with a new chain after stripping the factory lube out, which I would've done for my next attempt if the pandemic shortage hadn't made chains a bit scarce oland pricier than my cheapskate self wants to pay for say a DA 11 sp.
surak is offline  
Old 04-14-21, 03:45 PM
  #12  
Ferrouscious 
Some Weirdo
 
Ferrouscious's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Location: Rexburg, ID
Posts: 496

Bikes: '86 Maruishi Excellence, '86 Schwinn Prelude, '88 Cannondale SR2000, '74 C. Itoh "Racer"

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 220 Post(s)
Liked 135 Times in 87 Posts
Honestly, it's not a very clean-running lube.
__________________
Somewhere, a village is missing its idiot.
Ferrouscious is offline  
Old 04-15-21, 08:14 AM
  #13  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,559

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 189 Posts
WhyFi you're probably right about the needing to go further with chain prep. I thought I had thoroughly degreased the chain by doing the ol' finger test (no black when I ran my finger over the chain) but the chain may not have been degreased enough for the hydrodynamic lube.

rower2cyclist Glad to know it wasn't just me!

SoSmellyAir How do you apply the Rock N Roll lube now? You're about about the videos. The ones I've seen online show them squirting that lube all over the chain and cassette. I ask because I have a bottle of Rock N Roll gold and am considering giving it a try when the hydrodynamic runs out.

surak You could be right about the drive train not being fully cleaned. I thought I had done a good job as there was no grease coming off on my skin. But in my reading online about the lube they talk about having a completely degreased drive train. Perhaps there was still some old lube residing in nooks and crannies that I didn't get at.

Ferrouscious Well that's disappointing. Damn marketing hype!
NoWhammies is offline  
Old 04-15-21, 08:56 AM
  #14  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 963

Bikes: TCR Pro 0 / Revolt 2

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
SoSmellyAir How do you apply the Rock N Roll lube now? You're about about the videos. The ones I've seen online show them squirting that lube all over the chain and cassette. I ask because I have a bottle of Rock N Roll gold and am considering giving it a try when the hydrodynamic runs out.
Squirting lube on the cassette? Oh my!

The only thing that should be lubed is the internal part of the chain, hence why the ideal method is to only put lube on the rollers and make sure it gets inside (slowly spin the crankset for 30 seconds - 1 minute, wait a while and then wipe it off with a clothe).
eduskator is offline  
Old 04-15-21, 11:59 AM
  #15  
SoSmellyAir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2020
Location: Orange County, California
Posts: 245

Bikes: Cannondale Synapse, Trek FX 2

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 111 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 49 Posts
Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
SoSmellyAir How do you apply the Rock N Roll lube now? You're about about the videos. The ones I've seen online show them squirting that lube all over the chain and cassette. I ask because I have a bottle of Rock N Roll gold and am considering giving it a try when the hydrodynamic runs out.
Muc Off C3 smells better and has a catchy fluorescent hue, but Rock N Roll is the better lubricant. This is my "good enough" way to apply any lube when I am not washing my bike.

1. Shift chain onto big chain ring and rear cog that gives the straightest chain line.
2. While backpedaling, wipe chain and derailleur pulley wheels with clean old T shirt or top that my son has outgrown.
3. Working with the section of chain extending from the bottom of the big chain ring to the bottom of the tension pulley, drip two drops onto each chain roller. Two drops ensures there is an excess that drips off the roller onto the folded packing paper that lines the ground, thereby serving as a rinse.
4. Slowly back pedal to move the next section of the chain between the bottom of the big chain ring and the bottom of the tension pulley, then repeat Step #3, until entire chain is done.
5. Repeat Steps #2 through #4 once or twice more, depending on how dirty the chain is, by comparing stains on rag; newer stains should be noticeably lighter. For the final application, use only a single drop per roller.
6. Let chain sit overnight.
7. Repeat Step #2 next day.

Last edited by SoSmellyAir; 04-15-21 at 08:27 PM.
SoSmellyAir is offline  
Likes For SoSmellyAir:
Old 04-15-21, 01:03 PM
  #16  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,739
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1008 Post(s)
Liked 125 Times in 93 Posts
Muck-ON ? :-)

Srsly tho, all wet oils attract dirt and turn black fast. However most of them work just fine all the same. Just lube more sparingly. If you want a gold look chain you need some dry lube.
Racing Dan is offline  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 04-17-21, 05:51 AM
  #17  
silverado8405
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 72

Bikes: 2007 Trek 820, 2014 Fuji Gran Fondo 2.1

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 8 Times in 8 Posts
As said before, this is pretty common with the wet lubes. I typically run the muc off C3 dry and it doesn’t get nearly this dirty (I also clean it every week to keep it that way) but the minute I put the C3 wet on it goes all gross black on me just like you’re showing. Always do the one drop per roller and wipe off the excess with the wet and still get it looking like that. With the dry I don’t even wipe off the excess and it doesn’t. I’ve always chalked it up to differences between wet/dry lubes.
silverado8405 is offline  
Likes For silverado8405:
Old 04-18-21, 03:21 PM
  #18  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,863
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4655 Post(s)
Liked 1,776 Times in 962 Posts
Originally Posted by surak View Post
Define "thoroughly cleaned". You might be surprised by what a real thorough cleaning entails.
I concur.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/chainclean.html
noodle soup is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 03:36 PM
  #19  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 963

Bikes: TCR Pro 0 / Revolt 2

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Oh my! And I thought I was cool with my overnight fuel soaking / WD-40 & Isopropyl alcohol rinsing. That guy is clearly killing it.
eduskator is offline  
Old 04-18-21, 09:40 PM
  #20  
NoWhammies
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoWhammies's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Vancouver, BC
Posts: 1,559

Bikes: Argon 18 Gallium, BH G7, Rocky Mountain Instinct C70

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 290 Times in 189 Posts
Update. I cleaned my chain and cassette on Friday and lightly put on some hydrodynamic lube. After today's ride? Golden! No gunk on the chain and no gunk on the cassette. And my ride was quiet. I was definitely putting too much lube on. Thank you for the feedback.

I still want to try Rock N Roll gold though when this bottle of hydrodynamic is done.
NoWhammies is offline  
Likes For NoWhammies:
Old 04-20-21, 06:40 AM
  #21  
Fox Farm
Senior Member
 
Fox Farm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Prague, Czech Republic
Posts: 2,702

Bikes: Merlin Extra Light, Orbea Orca, Ritchey Outback,Tomac Revolver Mountain Bike, Cannondale Crit 3.0 now used for time trials.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Liked 40 Times in 24 Posts
Originally Posted by Ferrouscious View Post
Honestly, it's not a very clean-running lube.
This has been my experience with MuckOff, which seems to be more of a case of MuckOn. Perhaps it requires much less lube that others that I have used. But what a gunky mess. I will likely try some of the Absolute Black wax next.
Fox Farm is offline  
Old 04-20-21, 07:18 AM
  #22  
eduskator
Senior Member
 
eduskator's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2019
Location: Québec, Canada
Posts: 963

Bikes: TCR Pro 0 / Revolt 2

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 427 Post(s)
Liked 245 Times in 184 Posts
Originally Posted by NoWhammies View Post
Update. I cleaned my chain and cassette on Friday and lightly put on some hydrodynamic lube. After today's ride? Golden! No gunk on the chain and no gunk on the cassette. And my ride was quiet. I was definitely putting too much lube on. Thank you for the feedback.

I still want to try Rock N Roll gold though when this bottle of hydrodynamic is done.
Yeah, a drop or two on each roller is usually all that's needed. People tend to put a lot more than that.
eduskator is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.