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What will I get first - Next gen Dura Ace or RED Etap AXS 12 speed?

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What will I get first - Next gen Dura Ace or RED Etap AXS 12 speed?

Old 04-23-21, 04:44 PM
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scottydonald
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What will I get first - Next gen Dura Ace or RED Etap AXS 12 speed?

Loving my bike as it is but my final upgrade for it will be an improved group set; currently running mechanical Ultegra and very happy with it.

I have been trying to source some Disc RED Etap AXS in the last week but no where seems to have it and some estimates are now next year and some two weeks!

I am in the tricky position of moving to the UK from the USA in July so putting my name on waiting lists etc is almost impossible.

Form what I have read the next gen 12 speed Dura Ace will be launched around the Tour de France but good luck getting it until at least September.

Right now I will be happy with either - I just want to finish my wee bike, before the Scottish winter stops me from using it!
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Old 04-23-21, 04:50 PM
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I can't imagine choosing a groupset purely based on which one I can get first. There is probably going to be some difference in quality or features between DA and Red.

If I were you, I'd get any groupset I could for now, wait until details about DA dropped, order the group I really wanted, then sell the old group once I got the new one. Even used R7000 should be good enough as a stop gap. Of course your new bike won't feel as nice and shiny as it would if you went with a top tier group but... that is my opinion.

From what I know, shimano releases have always been extremely delayed. They'll announce something and then take ages to actually get the supply chain moving. Especially now that covid is a thing. I talked to a couple bike shops and apparently shimano parts in general are in short supply even now. They told me to look online.

And 12 speed DA is probably one of the most hotly anticipated groups ever. I wouldn't even count on getting it before September.
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Old 04-23-21, 05:15 PM
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I'll bet that I can find all of the needed parts very quickly. You have to be willing to buy the parts from several sources. Start with a 1x or 2x partial group, then add the crank, chain and cassette. It's very doable. The crank might be hardest, depending on what you want.

The parts might be easier to get in Europe. Sram makes sure that euro stores don't ship to the USA.
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Old 04-23-21, 09:12 PM
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Sifn't hanging out for DA isn't a no-brainer. Shimano is king.
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Old 04-24-21, 05:21 AM
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Based on online prices, wait until you move to UK. Maybe see how next-generation Shimano looks before you choose. My suspicion is even if launched this year it wont be readily available until 2022. Since you are happy with current setup I suggest sit tight until after your move.
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Old 04-24-21, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I can't imagine choosing a groupset purely based on which one I can get first. There is probably going to be some difference in quality or features between DA and Red.

If I were you, I'd get any groupset I could for now, wait until details about DA dropped, order the group I really wanted, then sell the old group once I got the new one. Even used R7000 should be good enough as a stop gap. Of course your new bike won't feel as nice and shiny as it would if you went with a top tier group but... that is my opinion.

From what I know, shimano releases have always been extremely delayed. They'll announce something and then take ages to actually get the supply chain moving. Especially now that covid is a thing. I talked to a couple bike shops and apparently shimano parts in general are in short supply even now. They told me to look online.

And 12 speed DA is probably one of the most hotly anticipated groups ever. I wouldn't even count on getting it before September.
I guess I would be happy with either - I love the way the SRAM stuff changes clear over the Shimano, so simple.

I am happy with Ultegra but I do want to finish the build and enjoy it.

I can't see me getting DA 12 this year even, contacted lots of places in the UK, seems most Euro places won't ship to UK right now due to Brexit. Most say they don't have a clue and I will just have to wait for DA.

Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I'll bet that I can find all of the needed parts very quickly. You have to be willing to buy the parts from several sources. Start with a 1x or 2x partial group, then add the crank, chain and cassette. It's very doable. The crank might be hardest, depending on what you want.

The parts might be easier to get in Europe. Sram makes sure that euro stores don't ship to the USA.
I was trying to do that yesterday - some place have the shifters and derailiers, my LBS had the crankset I would want at 175 with the middling number of teeth, they also have the rear cassette and chain. Seems the brakes seem to be the problem part right now. One other thing my Enve wheels have a Shimano hub so changing that to SRAM might but a problem my LBS said.

Ahhh I contacted a nice place in Nederlands to see if they would ship here but no reply yet.

Originally Posted by Kimmo View Post
Sifn't hanging out for DA isn't a no-brainer. Shimano is king.
I have always been a Shimano guy but as I said above the way the SRAM shifts is better in my head.

Originally Posted by datlas View Post
Based on online prices, wait until you move to UK. Maybe see how next-generation Shimano looks before you choose. My suspicion is even if launched this year it wont be readily available until 2022. Since you are happy with current setup I suggest sit tight until after your move.
I think I am going to have to wait, as you say good luck getting anything this year.

I think bike stuff is cheaper in the USA, gearing maybe not but my Enve wheels most definitely over the prices of them in the UK.
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Old 04-24-21, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by scottydonald View Post
Loving my bike as it is but my final upgrade for it will be an improved group set; currently running mechanical Ultegra and very happy with it.
I would never replace something if I was "very happy with it."
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Old 04-24-21, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I would never replace something if I was "very happy with it."
true but I want better so I will be 'greater than very happy with it'.

I want the 12 speed and electrical gears.
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Old 04-24-21, 08:49 AM
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Originally Posted by scottydonald View Post
true but I want better so I will be 'greater than very happy with it'.

I want the 12 speed and electrical gears.
I hope you have another bike on which you can use the Ultegra groupset. If not, you can send it to me and Ill put it on a bike. 😊
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Old 04-24-21, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Koyote View Post
I hope you have another bike on which you can use the Ultegra groupset. If not, you can send it to me and I’ll put it on a bike. 😊
My wife will be getting a few upgrades to her Tiagra set up.

I am about to order Carbon Works bottle cages and my wife is getting my plastic ones to replace her metal ones!
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Old 04-24-21, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
The parts might be easier to get in Europe. Sram makes sure that euro stores don't ship to the USA.
Shimano also. Remember, after Brexit, Europe doesn't include the UK. This has really fouled my parts buying (no more wiggle or sigma for me, unless I have it shipped to my US overseas address). It'll be worse for someone in the UK, because buying from the mainland stores like Futurum (NL, and website in Dutch), bike-discount, bike24, R2 (all 3 German), for instance, means folks in the UK are at risk for paying customs duties. Which is a shame, because the German stores I mentioned (pre-Covid) always had competitive pricing the order I listed them least to most, that always came in under Jenson and Competitive Cyclist, even with VAT.
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Old 04-24-21, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by scottydonald View Post
I think bike stuff is cheaper in the USA, gearing maybe not but my Enve wheels most definitely over the prices of them in the UK.
Depends what you buy. DT Swiss and Mavic wheels over here are dramatically less expensive, along with Schwalbe, Continental, Challenge, and Vittoria tires, even if you have to pay the VAT, for instance. Shimano and SRAM are usually much less expensive, but sometimes you have to hunt for the lowest price...although if something is just released, don't count on any discounted pricing, based on what I've observed for the last 5 years.
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Old 04-24-21, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Depends what you buy. DT Swiss and Mavic wheels over here are dramatically less expensive, along with Schwalbe, Continental, Challenge, and Vittoria tires, even if you have to pay the VAT, for instance. Shimano and SRAM are usually much less expensive, but sometimes you have to hunt for the lowest price...although if something is just released, don't count on any discounted pricing, based on what I've observed for the last 5 years.

I don't think anything bike related will have discounts for a year at least!
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Old 04-24-21, 11:51 PM
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~

Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I'll bet that I can find all of the needed parts very quickly. You have to be willing to buy the parts from several sources. Start with a 1x or 2x partial group, then add the crank, chain and cassette. It's very doable. The crank might be hardest, depending on what you want.

The parts might be easier to get in Europe. Sram makes sure that euro stores don't ship to the USA.
Indeed - that's what I just did to put together a Force AXS wide ETap group. Found a source that had many of the parts and a reasonable wait for the others. So I placed the order, got some parts shipped and was in line for the backordered parts. As I was waiting for the delayed parts, I spent some quality time piecing them together from a couple of other sources and pretty much had the whole group within two or three weeks.

If you can find parts that are only two weeks delayed, that's a good thing, I'd jump on it

As for which group to buy, to me, it would strictly be based on which I thought I could put together first. In my case, it was definitely ETap. I know there's Sram and (moreso) Shimano fan-boys who just won't consider the alternative. Sort of an IOS/Android thing. But really, does anyone think that either DA or Red are inferior in any meaningful way? Sure there's differences in features and that is a reasonable preference. But either will give you a top of the line experience.

I will say though, that in studying (meaning: waay over thinking) the two systems, I am super happy to be installing a wireless Sram Etap group rather than a wired Di2 group. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's likely that Di2 isn't a lot more complicated than cables (which I've done many, many times), but the Etap will take about 30 minutes to install and adjust the derailleurs while I think Di2 would be quite a long project for a first time amateur, figuring out cable runs and junction boxes, etc. Look at the videos. I think ETap also has Di2 beat with out-of-the box connectivity.

I bought my wife a complete GRX Di2 bike and am glad I did for sevral reasons mostly that the Di2 was available within the time it took to get the frame, and I don't have to install it. It will be interesting to see which shifting system we like better when we get both bikes up and running. I have no delusion that AXS Etap or GRX Di2 are better than the other in any qualitative way. It will end up being personal preference, I'm sure.
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Old 04-25-21, 05:31 AM
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Originally Posted by scottydonald View Post
I don't think anything bike related will have discounts for a year at least!
Check out bike-discount.de. There are plenty of items discounted below MSRP. Make sure you put your country as one in the EU to see with VAT pricing, if your select US it will be dramatically lower, but many items wont ship to the US from the EU (and vice versa) due to manufacturer rules.
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Old 04-25-21, 07:22 AM
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I've got two bikes with force axs. I don't use sram cranks due to their 13T difference at the crank that reduces range. I've use Campy chorus 12 and shimano grx cranks. Both work great. One common complaint with axs is chain drops. That can be due to the crank or the FD. A commonly overlooked problem is the alignment marks on the FD being out of parallel with the chain rings. This happens because the installer aligns the marks with the FD clamp bolt lightly tightened, then fully tightens the bolt without rechecking the alignment. With Campy cranks, the clearance between the cage and crank arm is only about 2mm. If the cage moves a bit, it will touch the crank arm. That's how I first noticed the problem. With grx cranks there's lots of clearance, so I use drill bit shanks as gauges to be sure the final position is correct. The cage may need to be set a bit crooked to start with, so the marks end up parallel after tightening. I also don't use the little wedge that sram wants you to place between the cage and frame. I've been using force axs since last July with no problems. I've installed the FDs 7 times on 4 frames, with 5 cranks. Never a chain drop or problem adjusting the FD.
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Old 04-25-21, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Camilo View Post
If you can find parts that are only two weeks delayed, that's a good thing, I'd jump on it

As for which group to buy, to me, it would strictly be based on which I thought I could put together first. In my case, it was definitely ETap. I know there's Sram and (moreso) Shimano fan-boys who just won't consider the alternative. Sort of an IOS/Android thing. But really, does anyone think that either DA or Red are inferior in any meaningful way? Sure there's differences in features and that is a reasonable preference. But either will give you a top of the line experience.
hmmm. I have emailed a few places, some say I should just put my name down and pay now; I told them that I only have 90 days she etc but they still say they would send it to the UK for me etc but that would greatly up the price.

Right now I have left it to my LBS and a few more to reply to emails.

Also emailed a few UK shops about how they will allocate DA 12 speed when its released.

Originally Posted by Badger6 View Post
Check out bike-discount.de. There are plenty of items discounted below MSRP. Make sure you put your country as one in the EU to see with VAT pricing, if your select US it will be dramatically lower, but many items wont ship to the US from the EU (and vice versa) due to manufacturer rules.
Thank you.

Put in UK and they still ship there it seems. I put an alert on the RED Etap AXS Groupset with disc breaks, saying at least 6 weeks so that will be getting nearer my return home.

Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
I've got two bikes with force axs. I don't use sram cranks due to their 13T difference at the crank that reduces range. I've use Campy chorus 12 and shimano grx cranks. Both work great. One common complaint with axs is chain drops. That can be due to the crank or the FD. A commonly overlooked problem is the alignment marks on the FD being out of parallel with the chain rings. This happens because the installer aligns the marks with the FD clamp bolt lightly tightened, then fully tightens the bolt without rechecking the alignment. With Campy cranks, the clearance between the cage and crank arm is only about 2mm. If the cage moves a bit, it will touch the crank arm. That's how I first noticed the problem. With grx cranks there's lots of clearance, so I use drill bit shanks as gauges to be sure the final position is correct. The cage may need to be set a bit crooked to start with, so the marks end up parallel after tightening. I also don't use the little wedge that sram wants you to place between the cage and frame. I've been using force axs since last July with no problems. I've installed the FDs 7 times on 4 frames, with 5 cranks. Never a chain drop or problem adjusting the FD.
I was going to go the middling crank set and the biggest gap cassette, so used to Texas where its so flat and going back to the hilly Scotland I would need more gearing variance.
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Old 04-25-21, 09:08 AM
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scottydonald, that’s good news! I’d also check r2-bike.de, bike-components.de, bike24.de, futurumshop.nl, mantel.com (they operate in a bunch of countries, I believe also the UK), and of course Wiggle and SigmaSports in the UK. Good luck!
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